This "Forced Updates for Windows 10 Home" thing has to stop!

[binaryzero]

How often do average home users upgrade the OS, without the intervention of someone who knows what they're doing? 

 

Answer: not very often - they'll get a new OS when they buy a new box. 

 

Microsoft makes most of it's revenue from licenses included with the new PCs. Even in the enterprise world, 5 years is the typical lifespan of a PC, so once a new OS is due typically you just buy a new PC which includes an OEM license. This is how I've worked for the last what, 10 years?

[xWhiplash]

The main argument I have seen in favor of this decision is that the Home edition is consumer-oriented, so non-technical users

[Raa]

If you do that (assuming MS doesn't do the obvious thing and run another service to protect it) you probably don't want to be on the Home version.

 

I don't mind the updates, but a compromise can be automatic security updates but "recommended" updates for drivers and software.

I realise it's trying to fix a nail with a sledge hammer, but there isn't much other choice.

 

I don't have a problem with MS pushing out automatic updates for home users, but there is a scope for abuse there. Worse, as people point out, it shouldn't apply to driver updates as these could bork things.

Let's also not forget Microsoft have slipped on a few updates that have broken things, so I'd be a bit wary about that too...

[xWhiplash]

Also, keep in mind that patch Tuesday is dead now.  They probably provided bad updates in the past to meet the patch Tuesday deadline, and later had to pull it.  This is no longer the case.  Updates will be available when they are finished.  No hard deadline anymore.

[ajnauron]

Have you disabled the option through the Advanced System Properties Hardware Device Installation Settings?

 

I really wanted this to work, but I just tried it and Windows 10 is ignoring that setting and reinstalled the new graphics card drivers even with that setting set to "Never".

[Stoffel]

Also, keep in mind that patch Tuesday is dead now.  They probably provided bad updates in the past to meet the patch Tuesday deadline, and later had to pull it.  This is no longer the case.  Updates will be available when they are finished.  No hard deadline anymore.

 

Are you sure patch Tuesday is dead? I thought I read somewhere that it would continue as usual.

Only now patches will first be tested by fast and slow rings before they get pushed out to the rest of the public

 

So in theory patches should go even better then they do now

[xWhiplash]

Plus, also keep in mind that even if you wait a year to apply updates, some user somewhere will have some configuration that will cause the update to mess things up.  That is the problem with millions of hardware configurations available.  Updates can never be 100% guaranteed to be error-proof.  Even if they wait yearly to provide updates.  Programmers are human, they will make mistakes.  Some hardware configuration could mess an update up too.

[binaryzero]

"Patch Tuesday" was more of a term coined in the corporate world - home users shouldn't care what day they're released, just install them when they nag you. 

[xWhiplash]

Are you sure patch Tuesday is dead? I thought I read somewhere that it would continue as usual.

Only now patches will first be tested by fast and slow rings before they get pushed out to the rest of the public

 

So in theory patches should go even better then they do now

 

Yes, with the announcement of Windows Update for Business, there will no longer be a patch Tuesday.  I guess they could always change their minds.

 

Some links here -

http://www.computerworld.com/article/2920181/microsoft-windows/patch-tuesday-may-be-dead-but-microsofts-not-confessing-to-the-crime.html

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/05/04/microsoft_windows_10_updates/

http://www.computing.co.uk/ctg/news/2407222/no-more-patch-tuesday-windows-10-to-update-automatically-every-day

http://community.spiceworks.com/topic/937305-windows-10-security-means-no-more-patch-tuesday-is-that-good

http://www.gfi.com/blog/no-more-patch-tuesday/

 

 

"Patch Tuesday" was more of a term coined in the corporate world - home users shouldn't care what day they're released, just install them when they nag you. 

 

Nope.  Unless there is a major patch needed, or a major security issue, patches only are released on Patch Tuesday.  Therefore, it is a hard deadline and might cause some patches to be rushed.  Therefore, it might have been the cause for some of those bad patches.  And yes, home users should have been caring about patch Tuesday.  It gives them one day to guarantee updates will be available.  Put it on their calendar with the birthdays and update your computer monthly.  But people do not and that is why many generic users have un-patched systems.

[tompkin]

Are you sure patch Tuesday is dead? I thought I read somewhere that it would continue as usual.

Only now patches will first be tested by fast and slow rings before they get pushed out to the rest of the public

 

So in theory patches should go even better then they do now

I read where they will keep Patch Tuesday for Enterprise users. I don't know about small business/consumers.

[+Zagadka Subscriber²]

Drivers should never be mandatory/automatic... there are simply way too many times that you need to run either beta or previous version drivers. That may not apply to most Home users, but it is better to not force it. 

 

But users need to be more aware of needing upgrades, or that they are available. Most of the regular-folk in my family don't even know which version of Windows they have or what a driver is. The option needs to be crammed in their faces.

[binaryzero]

 

Yes, with the announcement of Windows Update for Business, there will no longer be a patch Tuesday.  I guess they could always change their minds.

 

Some links here -

http://www.computerworld.com/article/2920181/microsoft-windows/patch-tuesday-may-be-dead-but-microsofts-not-confessing-to-the-crime.html

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/05/04/microsoft_windows_10_updates/

http://www.computing.co.uk/ctg/news/2407222/no-more-patch-tuesday-windows-10-to-update-automatically-every-day

http://community.spiceworks.com/topic/937305-windows-10-security-means-no-more-patch-tuesday-is-that-good

http://www.gfi.com/blog/no-more-patch-tuesday/

 

 

 

Nope.  Unless there is a major patch needed, or a major security issue, patches only are released on Patch Tuesday.  Therefore, it is a hard deadline and might cause some patches to be rushed.  Therefore, it might have been the cause for some of those bad patches.  And yes, home users should have been caring about patch Tuesday.  It gives them one day to guarantee updates will be available.  Put it on their calendar with the birthdays and update your computer monthly.  But people do not and that is why many generic users have un-patched systems.

 

 

LOL! I can tell you right now, the average person has more to worry about than marking a day on their calendar to update their computer. 

[xWhiplash]

I read where they will keep Patch Tuesday for Enterprise users. I don't know about small business/consumers.

 

From Ignite 2015, they said Patch Tuesday is dead.  They said patches will be available when they are ready instead of one day of the month.  They also announced Windows Update for Businesses which control which ring enterprise systems will use.

LOL! I can tell you right now, the average person has more to worry about than marking a day on their calendar to update their computer. 

 

Tell that to the numerous people that had to have their laptops fixed by me and found out they had 100 updates available.  Updating your system is critical.

[binaryzero]

"Download updates and install automatically" - problem solved. You've just saved yourself a few hundred hours supporting users. 

[tompkin]

From Ignite 2015, they said Patch Tuesday is dead.  They dais patches will be available when they are ready instead of one day of the month.  They also announced Windows Update for Businesses which control which ring enterprise systems will use.

I will try to find a link but I think they retracted that. The reason is that having a Patch Tuesday has been more manageable for large businesses than patches coming out willy-nilly. They are able to test the patches before implementing them everywhere. There was negative feedback about the new plan so Microsoft retracted their continuous update plans.   

 

EDIT: Found a link. This is not the previous one I read. But it does state what you say about Windows Update for Businesses. Still same thing for businesses though because they determine when the updating is done.

 

http://www.itpro.co.uk/operating-systems/24603/windows-10-patch-tuesday-is-not-dead

[xWhiplash]

"Download updates and install automatically" - problem solved. You've just saved yourself a few hundred hours supporting users. 

 

I don't only support one person and one computer you know.  Then another client will visit with the same problem, they didn't install updates.  I actually have someone in the family that is the goto IT guy for my grandma since she lives in a different state.  He CONSTANTLY keeps disabling automatic updates.  I keep telling them to not go to this guy but they keep going to him.

 

This should NOT be an option on home versions.  Why would any person claiming to be knowledgable in IT disable automatic updates for a grandma that does not know technology too well?  Windows 10 prevents this.  He will not be able to disable it now.

[ajnauron]

Drivers should never be mandatory/automatic... there are simply way too many times that you need to run either beta or previous version drivers. That may not apply to most Home users, but it is better to not force it. 

 

But users need to be more aware of needing upgrades, or that they are available. Most of the regular-folk in my family don't even know which version of Windows they have or what a driver is. The option needs to be crammed in their faces.

 

Unfortunately, at the moment there's option I can see that allows us to choose whether or not to have new drivers installed.  Defer updates doesn't do anything, setting Windows Updates to never install drivers(System>Advanced System Settings>Hardware>Device Installation Settings>No, let me choose what to do>Never Install Driver Software from Windows Update) doesn't do anything.  The only option available is to install all updates and drivers(!) that Windows Updates chooses for you to install.  

 

This article mentions that "Windows 10 Pro and Windows 10 Enterprise users will have the ability to defer updates."  I don't know if there was any further clarification on this, but I hope that use of "defer" means "choose" rather than simply "delay".  What about those that get their updates through Windows Server Update Services?  It has to mean Pro and Enterprise will be able to choose which to install at least at some point in the process.

[xWhiplash]

I will try to find a link but I think they retracted that. The reason is that having a Patch Tuesday has been more manageable for large businesses than patches coming out willy-nilly. They are able to test the patches before implementing them everywhere. There was negative feedback about the new plan so Microsoft retracted their continuous update plans.   

 

EDIT: Found a link. This is not the previous one I read. But it does state what you say about Windows Update for Businesses. Still same thing for them, though because they determine when the updating is done.

 

I doubt they retracted it.  With Windows Update for Businesses, you can configure it to be the second Tuesday of the month if you want to.  Along with controlling which ring your computers belong to.  It is more customizable.

 

Here is another link - https://blogs.windows.com/bloggingwindows/2015/05/04/announcing-windows-update-for-business/

 

If they retracted it, I am sure Windows Update for Business would be killed too.  And I am sure I would be able to find a link somewhere.  Which I haven't

[tompkin]

Let me ask this, (just to keep the conversation going  ), assuming I"m not knowledgeable enough to know when and if I need to install my updates, it only follows then that I shouldn't be allowed to even know what updates I've gotten, or heaven forbid(!) show me where to look in case there is a problem? Tut, tut. No log files for these users! 

[+Warwagon MVC]

The one time that I remember serious issues being caused by a patch Tuesday on a large scale, was when the users (and there were a lot of them) already had contracted a rootkit.

[xWhiplash]

The one time that I remember serious ssues being caused by patch Tuesday on a large scale, is when a user(s) (and there were a lot of them) already had contracted a rootkit.

 

 

I agree.  All the complainers about mandatory updates make it sound like 99% of Windows Updates cause issues.  It is very rare.  And like I said, even if they waited yearly for each patch, there would still be a rare glitch.

[+Warwagon MVC]

I agree.  All the complainers about mandatory updates make it sound like 99% of Windows Updates cause issues.  It is very rare.  And like I said, even if they waited yearly for each patch, there would still be a rare glitch.

 

If you think of all of the different system configurations Microsoft has to support, its amazing patches don't go ###### up more often.

[+Zagadka Subscriber²]

Let me ask this, (just to keep the conversation going  ), assuming I"m not knowledgeable enough to know when and if I need to install my updates, it only follows then that I shouldn't be allowed to even know what updates I've gotten, or heaven forbid(!) show me where to look in case there is a problem? Tut, tut. No log files for these users! 

One of the problems is that Windows Update has really, really sucked as a program. It was actually better 15 years ago when it was a web-based system. The Win10 WU does seem better in giving you info on what is going on and better linking to patch notes.

 

Of course, the KB links only really make sense if you know exactly what you are doing. I have a problem on my 8.1 system where it refuses to update, but also doesn't give any info on exactly what is failing...

[vcfan]

theres a smaller chance of updates going awry for home users than having their unpatched systems compromised because the relative/friend know it all disabled updates.

[xWhiplash]

One of the problems is that Windows Update has really, really sucked as a program. It was actually better 15 years ago when it was a web-based system. The Win10 WU does seem better in giving you info on what is going on and better linking to patch notes.

 

Of course, the KB links only really make sense if you know exactly what you are doing. I have a problem on my 8.1 system where it refuses to update, but also doesn't give any info on exactly what is failing...

 

You are kidding right?  It took SOOOOO LOOOOONG for Windows XP to scan and display a list of updates.  The system 15 years ago was much worse.

 

I agree that failing updates provide useless random error codes.  I hate that too.