To Update or Not to Update?

[Elliot B.]

Thank you! I really appreciate this!

I'm downloading, installing, and running Malwarebytes as I write this. I am kind of curious to see what viruses I have on my computer.

You also mentioned restoring from backups. Now that I think about it, it may be kind of bad that I don't have a backup of my computer (other than the Windows OS DVD). How would I create a backup of my computer? (My computer doesn't have a DVD drive, btw.)

Also, is it possible to create a backup of a smartphone? And how can I restore a laptop or a phone from a backup?

Sorry if this is a lot to ask...it's just that knowing that I have a backup of how my computers used to be may help in becoming more comfortable with installing updates.

Thank you again for your reply and all your help!

Edit: The scan just finished and Malwarebytes just found 237 possible threats.

Most of those "threats" are just cookies. Those ones are nothing to worry about.

[T3X4S]

Most of those "threats" are just cookies. Those ones are nothing to worry about.

A little presumptuous considering you havent seen the list.  You might be right, but at least throw the qualifier in there, after all we are talking about someone who isnt used to doing this...

Could be a trojan, root exploit and some reg files, with a nice batch of PUP and search engine overrides 

Point is - you have been around long enough to know that one time you assume everything will be the same as it always is.....

[+Warwagon MVC]

Your OS installation .. .I really want to ...

 

 

 

 

 

[T3X4S]

Yeah - I thought about this:   



But then thought, given the OP's comments about not wanting things to change - I thought against the forced life-changing act of nuking from orbit.

[Mockingbird]

I ane'  need no updates. Still livin' like its 1995. Y'll need ta stop tellin' mi wat to do.

[T3X4S]

He is struggling with the idea of change, but at least he is taking steps.

 

[+JHBrown Subscriber¹]

Thanks!

So, there are 2 main reasons why I'm uncomfortable with updating my OS:

1. I like knowing that every time I turn on my computer, the software on it will be exactly the same as it was when I last turned my computer off. I like knowing that no updates will have installed that may have removed a feature that I frequently use. I like knowing that no updates will have installed that may have changed the design of one part of the OS to something that I don't like (e.x. if an update changes the design of the taskbar and I don't like the new design).

2. After a few years, I will probably stop using my computer and replace it with a new one. I'll probably leave the old computer in my room or something, and every once in a while, when I'm feeling nostalgic, I'll turn on that old computer and see the software that I used to use on an (almost) daily basis. But, if there are automatic updates, then as soon as I turn on that old computer to see the old software, the software will update and the nostalgia and the memories will be gone.

Interesting post. Seems a little compulsive. OCD? Anyhow, I've read through the thread, and it looks like you are on your way with the advice given. 

[Elliot B.]

A little presumptuous considering you havent seen the list.  You might be right, but at least throw the qualifier in there, after all we are talking about someone who isnt used to doing this...

Could be a trojan, root exploit and some reg files, with a nice batch of PUP and search engine overrides 

Point is - you have been around long enough to know that one time you assume everything will be the same as it always is.....

I said most.

Most are always cookies.

[Snowbooks1419]

OK Snow - we are making progress

 

First things first - the malware.

Some of the threats might be little insignificant things - tracking cookies, making some PUPs (Potentially Unwanted Programs - things you didnt mean to install; they snuck in)
So, classification of those infections would be nice to now - but not absolutely important.

You can "select all" at the top of the results page and remove all the baddies in 1 fell swoop and move forward - or you can post screenshots and we can analyze what you have... your call.


As far as your backup questions:  If you dont have an external hard drive, you have 2 options really - and both are cloud-based.

1.)   You decide that you only REALLY care about the life or death important things, the irreplaceable pictures, documents, and then important pics, and documents - and back them up online using any of the cloud storage providers:  Google Drive, OneDrive, DropBox, etc....
2.)  Since you want to preserve the computer the way it is, and want to prevent unexpected/unwanted change - then a complete backup is the only real solution - something like carbonite.

It would be easier to get a 2nd hard drive, and use some of the respected backup solutions that have free versions though  Macrium Reflect Free, CrashPlan, Acronis True Image (my favorite)

As far as the phone - it would help to know what type of phone you have - but again - it comes down to the same 2 questions:  local backup (stored on the computer) or cloud-based backup


Im home for the night, so I'll keep this window open and check it every once in a while to answer as soon as possible about the infections.


Once we know your system is clean, you need to think about protecting yourself moving forward.... but we still have some battles to fight before making that decision.

So, out of those 237 potential threats, 4 of them were considered to be malware, while the other 233 were "potentially unwanted programs." I deleted all of the possible threats.

About the backup options: I currently have most of my files on OneDrive, with some files in other places, such as on a flash drive or on Dropbox. I was also thinking of backing up my entire system also, so that in case I get a virus or something, I can restore my computer to the backup. Would I use Carbonite to make the backup of my entire computer? And would I need an external drive that's larger than the size of my laptop? (My laptop has a 128 GB SSD, with about 17 GB free...so I'm guessing I would need an external drive that has at least 111 GB of storage.)

One other qustion: let's say that I backup my phone to my computer, for example, and then I install an update. If something goes wrong with the update, then I guess I could restore the phone back to the backup, but if automatic updates are turned on, how could I prevent it from redownloading the update that messed it up in the first place?

[Snowbooks1419]

One other thing: I realize that my original post may have made it seem that I am completely against software updates and I never update my software. I just want to clarify that what I was actually uncomfortable with was automatic software updates. I like choosing when to update the software that I use, and my choice was to update the software whenever I got a new computer.

I just wanted to clarify this because I develop software myself, and I realized that it could be hypocritical of me to say that I don't like software updates while at the same time I'm developing updates for my software. So, I like software updates (that's why I'm so interested in new versions of Office, Windows, OS X, etc., even if j don't necessarily update to those versions right away or ever).

So, just to clarify: I like software updates; I just like being able to choose when to install them (which for me is when I get a new computer). With this post, I'm trying to become more comfortable with automatic software updates, which is what I am against and what I have turned off.

[Snowbooks1419]

Interesting post. Seems a little compulsive. OCD? Anyhow, I've read through the thread, and it looks like you are on your way with the advice given. 

Nope, I don't have OCD, at least AFAIK.

(Sorry for the multiple posts, BTW. Is the any way to merge them?)

[T3X4S]

OK - good deal on the malwarebytes scan.  
Typically, after a malware cleanse is performed, the system is rebooted.  If not, go ahead and reboot - then run the scan again to see if anything pops up again.
This is to see if anything is sitting resident in your user profile, and when deleted, it just reinstalls itself the next time your user profile is loaded.
Once you get the all clear.  Time to move forward.
Get some good AV...if you want.   You can install the free 30-day demo of webroot's Secure Anywhere AntiVirus here.  Its tiny, fast and never bothers you unless it has to - it just sits back there and does its job from the cloud.  I have it on 30 computers i admin from home (friends, family, coworkers' home stuff) and almost never have to deal with viruses.  On the rare occasion someone will pickup some adware (this is just the AV version, not the Internet Security version) which I can clean remotely, but in the last 3 years- that program has been amazing.

Backups:   Correct, if your laptop has a 128GB SSD - you will need to find a 128GB or larger to clone it.  So if something bad happens, crazy update, a change you didnt expect, infection, you can just restore from the clone - and your back in business - no muss no fuss.  Your question about carbonite:  Carbonite only works if you have a good, fast connection - if you have some 5mbps/1mbps DSL or something worse because you live out in the country - then you might want to consider a local backup solution.  (Carbonite backs up everything on their servers and is $59/yr)

What I do is save all of my pictures, important docs on my 1.1 TB OneDrive account & about every 2 weeks I'll make a local backup of the entire system on a local HDD using an Acronis True Image boot disc. (free w/ WD HDD)

As far as your phone - I dont know what kind of phone you have, but I would be shocked if you didnt have the ability to restore from some kind of backup that is either completely cloud-based, or on your laptop.  I can only answer about iPhone because that is all I have ever really used.

Im glad you clarified your thoughts on updating.  I can say I totally agree with you - I like to know what is being installed as well - I dont want crap being installed that I dont need (Microsoft Malicious Software Removal Tool) - but - I am not having any problems, and ultimately - that is the whole idea.

Let me know how the 2nd scan goes - we can always run TDSS Killer to check for rootkits

Wow - its been a while since Ive done this stuff - I remember why I used to enjoy it 

Good Luck

Edited October 20, 2015 by T3X4S

[adrynalyne]

I said most.

Most are always cookies.

Not with malwarebytes.

[Snowbooks1419]

OK - good deal on the malwarebytes scan.  
Typically, after a malware cleanse is performed, the system is rebooted.  If not, go ahead and reboot - then run the scan again to see if anything pops up again.
This is to see if anything is sitting resident in your user profile, and when deleted, it just reinstalls itself the next time your user profile is loaded.
Once you get the all clear.  Time to move forward.
Get some good AV...if you want.   You can install the free 30-day demo of webroot's Secure Anywhere AntiVirus here.  Its tiny, fast and never bothers you unless it has to - it just sits back there and does its job from the cloud.  I have it on 30 computers i admin from home (friends, family, coworkers' home stuff) and almost never have to deal with viruses.  On the rare occasion someone will pickup some adware (this is just the AV version, not the Internet Security version) which I can clean remotely, but in the last 3 years- that program has been amazing.

Backups:   Correct, if your laptop has a 128GB SSD - you will need to find a 128GB or larger to clone it.  So if something bad happens, crazy update, a change you didnt expect, infection, you can just restore from the clone - and your back in business - no muss no fuss.  Your question about carbonite:  Carbonite only works if you have a good, fast connection - if you have some 5mbps/1mbps DSL or something worse because you live out in the country - then you might want to consider a local backup solution.  (Carbonite backs up everything on their servers and is $59/yr)

What I do is save all of my pictures, important docs on my 1.1 TB OneDrive account & about every 2 weeks I'll make a local backup of the entire system on a local HDD using an Acronis True Image boot disc. (free w/ WD HDD)

As far as your phone - I dont know what kind of phone you have, but I would be shocked if you didnt have the ability to restore from some kind of backup that is either completely cloud-based, or on your laptop.  I can only answer about iPhone because that is all I have ever really used.

Im glad you clarified your thoughts on updating.  I can say I totally agree with you - I like to know what is being installed as well - I dont want crap being installed that I dont need (Microsoft Malicious Software Removal Tool) - but - I am not having any problems, and ultimately - that is the whole idea.

Let me know how the 2nd scan goes - we can always run TDSS Killer to check for rootkits

Wow - its been a while since Ive done this stuff - I remember why I used to enjoy it 

Good Luck

Thank you!

Deleting the possible viruses did mess with some of my settings in Internet Explorer (it removed the Bing search from the address bar and stopped letting me see my previously visited sites from the address bar), but I was able to fix that by reinstalling the Bing add-on for IE from Microsoft.

As far as the backups go: do you know of any good backup software that backs up the system image locally, instead of to the cloud?

Thanks again for all the help!

[+Warwagon MVC]

Thank you!

Deleting the possible viruses did mess with some of my settings in Internet Explorer (it removed the Bing search from the address bar and stopped letting me see my previously visited sites from the address bar), but I was able to fix that by reinstalling the Bing add-on for IE from Microsoft.

As far as the backups go: do you know of any good backup software that backs up the system image locally, instead of to the cloud?

Thanks again for all the help!

http://www.macrium.com/

A great free solution to do Local System images.

[T3X4S]

Snow - I sent you a PM about a local backup option.  Once you get another HDD - you can use that option and be able to do complete system backups whenever you want from a boot image, (not installed in Windows)

[MikeChipshop Member]

Thanks!

So, there are 2 main reasons why I'm uncomfortable with updating my OS:

1. I like knowing that every time I turn on my computer, the software on it will be exactly the same as it was when I last turned my computer off. I like knowing that no updates will have installed that may have removed a feature that I frequently use. I like knowing that no updates will have installed that may have changed the design of one part of the OS to something that I don't like (e.x. if an update changes the design of the taskbar and I don't like the new design).

The major problem here is, unless you're not plugged in to any form of network, never plug in a USB or ever run anything, then it's more than likely your computer won't turn on the same way the next morning because it'll be infected to death.
Not having any form of update just leaves it wide open to becoming infected. 

[Kelxin]

You are right sir.  Admitting to the problem is the first step.

I wish you help.

I wish I could help you.

Yes, please make everyone a sheep ... baaaahh  ... baaaaaahhhhh  ... no reason to be afraid, assimilate now. 

[T3X4S]

 

Yes, please make everyone a sheep ... baaaahh  ... baaaaaahhhhh  ... no reason to be afraid, assimilate now. 

What are you talking about ?

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Is hating auto updates the new hipster thing to do in 2015?

Nah it's running DOS.

[xrobwx71]

If you're speaking of Windows updates or an OS update: At home and work, work meaning workstations and office computers not the main server. I have upgraded all of them to Windows 10 and have no complaints. It works well. I have the Windows updates on automatic, always have and always will.

 

Now for the server that runs our Point of Sale software, I have not upgraded the OS (Windows Server 2008) nor do I install the updates until I have vetted them completely. I don't have a huge window of downtime availability. I do have a plan in place to upgrade the server to Server 2016. 

[T3X4S]

If you're speaking of Windows updates or an OS update: At home and work, work meaning workstations and office computers not the main server. I have upgraded all of them to Windows 10 and have no complaints. It works well. I have the Windows updates on automatic, always have and always will.

 

Now for the server that runs our Point of Sale software, I have not upgraded the OS (Windows Server 2008) nor do I install the updates until I have vetted them completely. I don't have a huge window of downtime availability. I do have a plan in place to upgrade the server to Server 2016. 

He is talking about a personal laptop.  He never updated anything since 2014 and has no AV software.  But, we are working on changing that.

[T3X4S]

We ran mbam - pulled off some infections, now moving forward.  He just really didnt want things to change once he had things the way he liked it.  

Whatever the reasoning for his behavior, he started a thread about, was open to suggestions, and most importantly agreed with me   no Im kidding - most importantly, acted on the new information.

Now, installing an AV, and going to do local complete system backups - so - I would say this thread has been a success... but apparently Kelxin thinks I am a sheep creating more sheep for installing updates - at least I think thats what he was getting at with his 

 

 

Yes, please make everyone a sheep ... baaaahh  ... baaaaaahhhhh  ... no reason to be afraid, assimilate now. 

[Snowbooks1419]

Snow - I sent you a PM about a local backup option.  Once you get another HDD - you can use that option and be able to do complete system backups whenever you want from a boot image, (not installed in Windows)

Thanks! I'll look at those when I get home. (I'm on my phone right now.)

[Royalty]

Woah, to those who are tearing this guy down, chill the hell out. Like seriously? Everyone is paranoid about things. Whether it's OCD or some other form of disorder, we all have it. Quit bashing this guy. He's on this forum asking for help and if everyone is just going to tell him how "stupid" he is, then there's really no point of this thread. After all, he is at your mercy and all he wants is help.

 

This is also a reason why some people are afraid to ask questions on here. Because people will start spamming your topic with insults and sarcastic replies.

 

EDIT: Sorry if I came across on people hard or whatever. I love Neowin a lot. I've been here almost 5 years now and I keep coming back. I would really love to see this forum grow even more. Some replies to topics here are absolutely amazing. You guys have saved me so much money and helped me do so much for my computer. Just wanting the best for Neowinians and the forum.

Edited October 22, 2015 by Royalty