Upgrade(s) for 5 years old Desktop

[Vykranth]

Hello,

 

I am looking for advice as I am torn regarding upgrading my main desktop: a HP Pavilion Elite HPE-130. I bought it in 2010 along with Starcraft II.

 

The characteristcs are:

* One Intel i7 860 CPU 2.8 Ghz with 4 physical cores, 8 with Hyoerthreading

* 2 x 1TB Hitachi 7200 HD (more than enough for my usage)

* 1 GeForce GT 640 which was an upgrade from a GT 260

* 8 GB of Ram ( also more than enough for my usage)

* OS: Windows 10

 

Now, in 2016, I find that XCOM 2 is not that running as smoothly as I would like to. It is a bit normal since the recommened Nvidia card would be a 770.

That bothers me because XCOM 2 is really a good game.

 

So, my primary idea would be to change the GT 640 for a GTX 970 or a 980. My secondary idea would be to replace the system drive with a SSD, may be a Samsung 850 500 GB.

But I am concerned that the new graphic card and the new SSD will not work properly in the PC that is nearly 6 years old and I may be better off buying a full config.

 

So, what do you guys think of it? Upgrade Desktop or Buy a new Machine

 

Thank you in advance.

 

[+JHBrown Subscriber¹]

An SSD will breathe new life into an old system like that. Do not purchase a GTX 980 for that computer, your CPU will be a bottleneck. If you are going to purchase a new GPU like the 970, or 980, I'd plan a new build around it.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, JHBrown said:

An SSD will breathe new life into an old system like that. Do not purchase a GTX 980 for that computer, your CPU will be a bottleneck. If you are going to purchase a new GPU like the 970, or 980, I'd plan a new build around it.

An SSD won't really improve gaming performance all that much, but it will make the system feel much snappier. I wouldn't say that the CPU will always be the bottleneck, it's more dependent on the game, some are far more GPU reliant than they are CPU reliant. It probably makes more sense to get the 970 if you're just upgrading that without everything else.

 

Don't forget to check if your PSU can provide enough power to the new gpu.

[+Anarkii Subscriber²]

I just looked at the tech specs of the machine and I can tell you flat out - your current machine is past it's used by date. 

I'd personally keep the 2 drives (are they SATA drives or IDE?) and then recycle the rest. 

There are few reasons why I say this:
1. The PSU is only 350w - throwing in a 970 or 980 will barely get anything else on your machine running smoothly. 
2. If your 2 drives are SATA, then you can enjoy fast speeds plugged into a new mobo that supports it.
3. 500GB SSD is overkill - best way to do it is grab a 120GB - install Windows 10 and any necessary programs onto that, and keep the 2 drives as data drives for movies/games/tv shows/documents/music etc.
4. I think in the long run - a new PC would be the smarter choice anyway, and then just spend every 2 years upgrading 1 component to keep the machine up to date. 

[Mando]

also factor in if a 970 generation card will fit into the HP case, you would need at least a 500W PSU also, dont know how easy it is to swap psus on a retail HP with an aftermarket job.

 

PCI-e 3.0 makes a difference of approx 1-2fps and a 9 series will happpily run on pci-e 2.0 with no ill effects. im running a 970 with a 2600k i7/PCI-e 2.0 and saw a massive jump from a 660ti 

 

to be fair the only thing keeping my existing chip & board keeping up is the OC its running probably (sig below), i cant justify to myself to fork out hundreds to get equivalent clock speeds id be looking at a 6700k, then the board, DDR4 etc all mounts up too fast lol  the 970 is the last upgrade to this system before a new total built in the future. My 3 Evo SSDs will move from this system, thats it probably, and my case, a vintage Lian Li PC-65 15yrish old  retro!

 

 

Edited February 7, 2016 by Mando

[T3X4S]

It all depends on your budget.

UPGRADE:
An SSD is probably the single best upgrade one can do for an old system - the all around snappiness, a no noise is great.
Your video card is horrible and if you plan on getting a new GPU, you will definitely need a new PSU as OEMs put the cheapest POS they can (because its not a selling point)
So - after all is said and done - 
You've got $120 ish for a PSU
$320 for a 970GTX
$140 for a 500 GB 850 EVO

After tax and shipping - you have $600 spent into a 5 year old Hewlett CRAPard

If you have the budget - get a new one

[T3X4S]

Hop on PC Part Picker and you can spec out a build w/ best prices and even save the template


For $990 I put this together in 5 minutes:

Core i5 6th Gen

8GB
250GB Evo 850 SSD
750W Corsair PSU
eVGA 970GTX
Corsair Case
ASUS mobo

 

[Mando]

Nice although Texas, ive got all below happily running on a 500W  Corsair CMX, the 970s are pretty power efficient considering their performance. The kit itself yep i agree with everything  1080p gaming at ultra is easily possible with a system based on that.

 

i7 2600k @5ghz

8Gb 2133 (2x4)

EVGA 970GTX SSC @1440 core

3x Samsung Evo 120gb SSDs

16x DVDRW

PCI-e x1 Xonar DGX 

3x80mm Zalman fans

1x120mm Zalman fan

 

if he dropped to a 600 or 550, could it drop the cost by $30-$50 maybe and still have a bit of headroom.

 

With my new 970 the no fan spinning until card warms up freaks me out lol, enabled user fan speed in Precision X a hard habit to let go of i suppose

 

Edited February 7, 2016 by Mando

[dafox]

You should be fine to slap in a 970. Just make sure the variant you get can fit in the space.This is the 260 specs, power wise you should be fine for a 970.

[Vykranth]

I have check the PSU and it is reported to be 460 W. Which is an odd power for a PSU.

 

ANyway, I have a better idea of what to do with that machine. Now, I need to put price/availibility on the upgrade paths. Prices are likely to be different between the US and France so I need to factor that too

 

Thanks a lot for the answers, guys.

 

[I am Redbeard]

7 hours ago, Vykranth said:

Now, in 2016, I find that XCOM 2 is not that running as smoothly as I would like to. It is a bit normal since the recommened Nvidia card would be a 770.

That bothers me because XCOM 2 is really a good game.

So, although you COULD get away with upgrading you should bear in mind that XCOM2 is pretty much brand new and thus has a host of unpatched problems. Totalbuiscuit shed some light on them in his WTF is?: XCOM2, I'd link it but youtube is blocked at work. A quick google search brings up  this: https://www.reddit.com/r/Xcom/comments/44etg2/the_potential_causes_for_performance_issues_with/

I'm not saying you couldn't stand to get some upgrades in your rig, but, if it is solely because of XCOM2... I wouldn't rush it.

[Vykranth]

2 hours ago, I am Redbeard said:

So, although you COULD get away with upgrading you should bear in mind that XCOM2 is pretty much brand new and thus has a host of unpatched problems. Totalbuiscuit shed some light on them in his WTF is?: XCOM2, I'd link it but youtube is blocked at work. A quick google search brings up  this: https://www.reddit.com/r/Xcom/comments/44etg2/the_potential_causes_for_performance_issues_with/

I'm not saying you couldn't stand to get some upgrades in your rig, but, if it is solely because of XCOM2... I wouldn't rush it.

Well, that was an fascinating and well documented article but, even at minimal settings, XCOM 2 does not feel snappy on my machine.

I do not know if there will be a miracle patch that will optimize the game and make a significant difference. I have been always amazed by some release notes of the NVidia drivers claiming: best drivers for Bla-Bla Game or 25% performance increase in Some-other-game.

That machine has been rock-solid and faithfully working for the last 5.5 years. It depends on the cost at this point: how much for an upgrade than will last one or two years versus a new machine that will last for 5 to 6 years. So, right now, the negotiation is occuring between my wallet and me.

 

[T3X4S]

14 hours ago, Vykranth said:

I have check the PSU and it is reported to be 460 W. Which is an odd power for a PSU.

 

ANyway, I have a better idea of what to do with that machine. Now, I need to put price/availibility on the upgrade paths. Prices are likely to be different between the US and France so I need to factor that too

 

Thanks a lot for the answers, guys.

 

A no named, generic PSU claiming 460 is probably 350 at best.

The way the crap companies go about getting the ratings is to get a lab nice and chilly, and if that piece of crap spikes for a 1/2 second @ 460W - they'll slap a 460W sticker on it

The reputable companies do the opposite - Seasonic, Corsair, and the old warhorse PC Power & Cooling TurboCool will actually downplay the wattage claims - (a 750W might actually be a 780W)

 

[binaryzero]

Time for a new PC. 

[+JHBrown Subscriber¹]

15 hours ago, dafox said:

You should be fine to slap in a 970. Just make sure the variant you get can fit in the space.This is the 260 specs, power wise you should be fine for a 970.

I respectfully disagree based on his entire system.

14 minutes ago, Jared- said:

Time for a new PC. 

I agree. Which is why I only recommended going for an SSD if he wanted to see some day to day performance increase.

[dafox]

1 hour ago, JHBrown said:

I respectfully disagree based on his entire system.

I do get that his system is coming to its end for newer games. But i think he could get away with it one last time. I base this off this CPU generations comparison. The old i7 is a minor bottleneck but will still game at decent fps. Th GT 640 is the bigger bottleneck atm.

 

It does seems he is going for a new build though. He should then get a 980ti and live like a king.

[sinetheo]

19 hours ago, Anarkii said:

I just looked at the tech specs of the machine and I can tell you flat out - your current machine is past it's used by date. 

I'd personally keep the 2 drives (are they SATA drives or IDE?) and then recycle the rest. 

There are few reasons why I say this:
1. The PSU is only 350w - throwing in a 970 or 980 will barely get anything else on your machine running smoothly. 
2. If your 2 drives are SATA, then you can enjoy fast speeds plugged into a new mobo that supports it.
3. 500GB SSD is overkill - best way to do it is grab a 120GB - install Windows 10 and any necessary programs onto that, and keep the 2 drives as data drives for movies/games/tv shows/documents/music etc.
4. I think in the long run - a new PC would be the smarter choice anyway, and then just spend every 2 years upgrading 1 component to keep the machine up to date. 

Not past due at all. We hit the Moore's law limit. Maybe a 30 to 40% difference for cpu for a new i7 and 25% for a new i5. A new power supply and a video card should be plenty for an i7.

 

Unless this user does more than run a few games every now and then there is no point to replacing. Now if it was a 2009 era i3... I would agree

[Vykranth]

At this point, Dafox, given the answers, I am indeed more inclined to buy a new machine but I am still undecided.

 

I have looked online to check the price on some premade configs and separate parts. It depends on the price: I ended up with a 1750 Euros full config on Amazon.fr. Hp.Fr sells a Envy Phoenix at 2000 Euro

 

No premade configs has all the things I would like and I do not feel confident in build my own machine: I am very clumsy, changing a gfx card, I can do that, Changing a CPU, I have done one time in my 20 years carreer and I felt like it was open heart surgery.

 

There is a shop I will check tomorrow to see if they have the hardware ready at disposal.

[Mando]

On 07/02/2016 at 0:53 PM, dafox said:

You should be fine to slap in a 970. Just make sure the variant you get can fit in the space.This is the 260 specs, power wise you should be fine for a 970.

Not with a 350W HP PSU he wont. I wager a pint of beer it wont even post with No VGA error.

The minimum PSU reqs by Nvidia and all makers is 500W minimum with at least 32A on the 12v rail, a 360W generic HP PSU wont be anywhere near that requirement.

 

http://support.hp.com/us-en/document/c01959716

[dafox]

44 minutes ago, Mando said:

Not with a 350W HP PSU he wont. I wager a pint of beer it wont even post with No VGA error.

The minimum PSU reqs by Nvidia and all makers is 500W minimum with at least 32A on the 12v rail, a 360W generic HP PSU wont be anywhere near that requirement.

 

http://support.hp.com/us-en/document/c01959716

Thats not his PC variant, so yes you are right a 350w HP special wont run much. His came with a GT 260 from factory which means the PSU is good enough for that card so it would handle a 970 no probs.

 

5 hours ago, Vykranth said:

At this point, Dafox, given the answers, I am indeed more inclined to buy a new machine but I am still undecided.

 

I have looked online to check the price on some premade configs and separate parts. It depends on the price: I ended up with a 1750 Euros full config on Amazon.fr. Hp.Fr sells a Envy Phoenix at 2000 Euro

 

No premade configs has all the things I would like and I do not feel confident in build my own machine: I am very clumsy, changing a gfx card, I can do that, Changing a CPU, I have done one time in my 20 years carreer and I felt like it was open heart surgery.

 

There is a shop I will check tomorrow to see if they have the hardware ready at disposal.

List your wants and needs we can come up with a build and you can take that to a local PC shop.

[Vykranth]

59 minutes ago, dafox said:

List your wants and needs we can come up with a build and you can take that to a local PC shop.

Basically:

- One Intel i7 CPU (6700K for example)

- 8 Gb of Ram

- 500 Gb SSD System Drive (Samsung 850 for example)

- 1 Tb SSHD or HD Data drive

- One GeForce 970 or 980

- the motherboard that goes with these

- the PSU that goes with these

- the case that goes with these (black)

 

 

 

[Vykranth]

Little update on the existing machine: I confirm that the PSU is indeed 460 W: it is written on it but there is only one alimentation cable available for the GPU so 970 cards that requires two 6-pins alimentaion cables are a no-no unless the PSU is replaced too. I am now thinking about going to a 950: it should give a good performance improvment over the 640 while being much more afordable. Prices for 950 are hovering around 180 € while the 970s are roughly 350 €.

 

In the end, it was a good idea for me to ask for suggestion here. Thanks, guys.

 

 

 

[Michael Scrip]

On 2/7/2016 at 6:32 AM, Vykranth said:

I am looking for advice as I am torn regarding upgrading my main desktop: a HP Pavilion Elite HPE-130. I bought it in 2010

6 hours ago, Vykranth said:

Basically:

- One Intel i7 CPU (6700K for example)

- 8 Gb of Ram

- 500 Gb SSD System Drive (Samsung 850 for example)

- 1 Tb SSHD or HD Data drive

- One GeForce 970 or 980

- the motherboard that goes with these

- the PSU that goes with these

- the case that goes with these (black)

Good topic.  If you're more than 2 or 3 generations behind... you're probably better off buying major components and basically starting over. Things have advanced so much over the years.

 

I went from a system I built in 2009 with an Intel Core2Quad Q8300... to an Intel 4790K in 2015.  That, of course, required a new motherboard and new RAM.

 

Even though I kept the same case, power supply and all my SSDs and hard drives... the "guts" of the system were completely replaced with modern components.  

 

There's only so much you can "upgrade" before you need to start replacing major components.

 

 

[+JHBrown Subscriber¹]

You are still talking about that GTX 970 heh! As I recommended before, if you want a GTX 970 or 980, you should opt for a new build. I doubt that power supply you have even provided enough amps on the 12v rail in the first place. You should  be fine running a GTX 950 with that power supply. The recommended system power is 350W. The GTX 950 will be a substantial improvement over the GPU you have now. I have one in an HTPC, and it is a stellar performer with games on our Samsung TV at 1080.

[SnailSlug]

Nobody here has mentioned this yet, but a GTX 260 uses PCIe 2.0. We're now up to PCIe 3.0. If you stick a new video card into that slot, absolute best case scenario is that it will run at half the speed, since PCIe 3.0 lane bandwidth is 985 MB/s compared to 500 MB/s. This is assuming that the card actually works since PCIe 2.1 broke backwards compatibility with a higher power draw, an old 2.0 slot may not actually provide enough base power to even boot.

 

You might be hobbled already, since the version of the 640 with the GK107 chip uses PCIe 3.0. You can find out which actual chip is inside with GPU-Z. I would expect that your version of the 640 is using either the GF116 core, or the GK208 core. A 640 is probably the best video card that motherboard can handle.

 

In the absolute minimum case, an SSD will, in fact, do wonderful things for load times. There was a while when games still put useful information on loading screens, but no one with an SSD would ever see it.

 

Anything over that will require a new computer.