rumour Xbox One Revision and probably a NEW Xbox outed by FCC Filings

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

18 minutes ago, George P said:

First, I don't think smartTVs are in use, not really in use, the way you might think.  People own them, to what extent I'm not sure, but they're not used nearly as much as their makers thought, otherwise we wouldn't have a market for other media devices, so I wouldn't even add smartTVs into this equation.    Casuals want those, I agree, but then again, that depends where they live, everyone can get youtube just fine, not everyone can get Netflix, and even less can get Hulu and HBO, we're talking in most cases streaming services that are US only, or US/UK only, or like Netflix are really cut down versions of the US service in other parts of the world.   For those people, those things don't come into play as much, they'll have to go with the local tv and services they do have access to, for them recording, DVR, their own live TV is what they'd go with, that's why it's been asked for so much on the Xbox forums as a feature.

 

And as far as stores go, those apps/services, like Netflix are on every store, device, they're not tied or locked to one, so you just install Netflix on your xbox, signin and stream, if you're in a market that lets you.    It's also easier to get people to "switch" because they're not really switching, they're not going from one mobile phone store to another mobile phone store, it's looked at as another device,  you're not so much switching as you are adding on.   I mean I've spend lots on games in the xbox store, that doesn't stop me from spending a lot on games in the steam store.  And if we're going PC only, I've spend money on games through GoG,  few people really care about spending on games/apps on different stores as long as the games/apps they want are on it.  Again, you're not asking them to dump the stuff they paid for already that they have on their smartphones, there's no switching going on.

Easy to get people to switch? Tell that to MS/Windows Phone.

[George P Global Moderator]

2 hours ago, Audioboxer said:

Easy to get people to switch? Tell that to MS/Windows Phone.

Wow, it's like you stopped reading at some point and missed my points completely.   I said it's not switching, people don't see it as switching, you're not asking them to dump the apps they've paid for on their phones.    They're not moving to a new platform and dumping what they have, they're spending again on something else, adding on to what they've already spent.   I pointed out how people do this already, I spend money on my Xbox like I do on Steam and GoG, 2 different yet similar stores on the PC, and 3 stores that all sell games, just happens that one is on it's own device.

 

People don't have a problem spending money on apps on a new device if the apps they want are there, so if said app is on the Xbox later, then ok, it's got nothing to do with what they've spent on their phone/tablet though.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

34 minutes ago, George P said:

Wow, it's like you stopped reading at some point and missed my points completely.   I said it's not switching, people don't see it as switching, you're not asking them to dump the apps they've paid for on their phones.    They're not moving to a new platform and dumping what they have, they're spending again on something else, adding on to what they've already spent.   I pointed out how people do this already, I spend money on my Xbox like I do on Steam and GoG, 2 different yet similar stores on the PC, and 3 stores that all sell games, just happens that one is on it's own device.

 

People don't have a problem spending money on apps on a new device if the apps they want are there, so if said app is on the Xbox later, then ok, it's got nothing to do with what they've spent on their phone/tablet though.

The kind of people potentially interested in an Xbox media device aren't so much the gamers, but those already invested in other ecosystems. That is a hard sell for MS. Like it or not gamers aren't going to go crazy to buy the 'gimped Xbox One'. 

 

Because like it or not that is what it will be viewed as by gamers. Less choice for gaming options and marketed at a cheaper price will not win the hearts of gamers (not saying gamers like paying more, but for a little more they have the full XB1 experience). This will only be exacerbated by a PS Neo if MS have nothing to counteract with, let alone putting out a disc-less Xbox One at the same conference Sony release a more powerful PS4 with all traditional bells and whistles.

 

Like I said MS can do it if they want to, and quite honestly I'd actually like to see it now if just to gauge reaction from people on here when it flops.

[George P Global Moderator]

14 minutes ago, Audioboxer said:

The kind of people potentially interested in an Xbox media device aren't so much the gamers, but those already invested in other ecosystems. That is a hard sell for MS. Like it or not gamers aren't going to go crazy to buy the 'gimped Xbox One'. 

 

Because like it or not that is what it will be viewed as by gamers. Less choice for gaming options and marketed at a cheaper price will not win the hearts of gamers (not saying gamers like paying more, but for a little more they have the full XB1 experience). This will only be exacerbated by a PS Neo if MS have nothing to counteract with, let alone putting out a disc-less Xbox One at the same conference Sony release a more powerful PS4 with all traditional bells and whistles.

 

Like I said MS can do it if they want to, and quite honestly I'd actually like to see it now if just to gauge reaction from people on here when it flops.

I see more and more gamers going digital as time goes on, PC gamers have been going digital and it hasn't hurt things in the least.  It seems more of a vocal console minority don't want to give up on their optical drives, like I said, personally, I only own one game on disc, this gen.   If MS goes ahead and allows Gold members the ability to sell their digital games then the whole thinking between needing a optical disc anymore is less and less.

 

People invested in other devices, as far as media for your TV are those who can also get most, if not all, of that media on the Xbox with an app, we're talking the Netflix, hulu, amazon people (well, if/when amazon does an app because I don't think they have one yet).  In that case you're already covered, so switching from one media device to another media device doesn't have an impact.   And apps that you'd use on your TV are 99% of the time going to be something that's free, like skype, or something else that connects to a service so you can view pictures or FB or w/e.  

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

1 hour ago, George P said:

I see more and more gamers going digital as time goes on, PC gamers have been going digital and it hasn't hurt things in the least.  It seems more of a vocal console minority don't want to give up on their optical drives, like I said, personally, I only own one game on disc, this gen.   If MS goes ahead and allows Gold members the ability to sell their digital games then the whole thinking between needing a optical disc anymore is less and less.

 

People invested in other devices, as far as media for your TV are those who can also get most, if not all, of that media on the Xbox with an app, we're talking the Netflix, hulu, amazon people (well, if/when amazon does an app because I don't think they have one yet).  In that case you're already covered, so switching from one media device to another media device doesn't have an impact.   And apps that you'd use on your TV are 99% of the time going to be something that's free, like skype, or something else that connects to a service so you can view pictures or FB or w/e.  

PC are open stores and that is why it succeeds greatly with digital. Even on Steam you have lots of key resellers giving you great deals. Not to mention PC title RRPs are significantly lower than on console.

 

You do not get this with Sony/MS closed stores. As for MS allowing you to sell digital titles, what was the survey figures, 10%?  And at that it's probably digital store credit, not cash in hand. That's not breaking any distaste for console only digital any time soon. Especially not when you can get 50~70% resale from retail stores trade ins, and potentially 75~85% from private sale, and that's money in your pocket.

 

It's strange all the digital only future stuff seems to come from MS supporters. I'm guessing it's lingering defence of the DRM debacle, and possibly misguided thought that if MS try digital only the console will somehow conquer the market, or at least close the gap on Sony. It won't, but as I said here's hoping they do it so the argument can be put to bed.

[Vandalsquad]

20 hours ago, Audioboxer said:

One is not like the other. Remove the disc drive and it's DOA.

 

 

19 hours ago, Audioboxer said:

As for a slimmer console argument, MS can easily slim down the XB1. The PS4 is about 2/3rds of the size and includes an internal power brick. Yes large size has its benefits with the XB1 being quieter, but in terms of operation both work. If someone simply wants something slimmer at all costs I don't think an XB1 fan being a bit noisier will mean much. They don't need to remove the disc drive to make a smaller console. Who knows but the PS4 Neo might even end up smaller than the PS4 due to chip size shrinkage.

I'm with you on a disc less Xbox isn't for a lot of people, I would never get one. But I've never purchased 1 digital game in my life. The only exceptions being gold and PSN+ and alpha/beta games. 

 

I love my my physical disc collection way to much and probably have one of the largest game collections from SNES to PS4/One on this board.

 

But I believe we would be around the same age, late 20's? Everyone I know, the generations after us, 13-21 I would have to say at least 50% or more of their purchases are digital. I can see the market in which it would sell. The majority of these kids ask for mum or dads credit card when purchasing and their parents don't realise there's a difference between physical and digital prices. They've been doing this for years already with the kids growing up from 2 years old on touchscreen phones and tablets purchasing coins and games and believe that's just the easier and cheaper option. 

 

I can see it also appealing more to the older crowd who have no care to go video game shopping anymore in there 30's and 40's and money isn't a problem to have it then and there when they have a few minutes of time to play.

 

I have no problem with a slim probably won't grab one after upgrading to the forza one this year, but noise on my PS4 is like a jet sometimes when it's under load and updating so I can appreciate the One more there and it fits better with the rest of my gear. I would be more interested in a quieter PS4 with the bloody USB ports on the back. Just put the ports on the back actually and I would upgrade 

[George P Global Moderator]

We're getting more and more, and better, digital sales, so if you're looking to buy a game for the first time, you can just wait for a sale, like with Steam or GOG on the PC, it's funny how PC gamers have no issue with digital only, for a very long time now, yet console gamers have this need for it.   Best thing to do is open digital up for the ability to resell, either to your friends or to other gold members, and the last valid reason to have a disc is gone in my mind.

 

 

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

1 hour ago, George P said:

We're getting more and more, and better, digital sales, so if you're looking to buy a game for the first time, you can just wait for a sale, like with Steam or GOG on the PC, it's funny how PC gamers have no issue with digital only, for a very long time now, yet console gamers have this need for it.   Best thing to do is open digital up for the ability to resell, either to your friends or to other gold members, and the last valid reason to have a disc is gone in my mind.

Probably because a digital "sale" on X1 brings the price down to launch RRP, at best. Comparing GOG and Steam prices to Xbox Store is not realistic in the slightest. That is why PC gamers are so comfortable with "digital only" for the most part.

[Skiver Veteran]

1 hour ago, George P said:

We're getting more and more, and better, digital sales, so if you're looking to buy a game for the first time, you can just wait for a sale, like with Steam or GOG on the PC, it's funny how PC gamers have no issue with digital only, for a very long time now, yet console gamers have this need for it.   Best thing to do is open digital up for the ability to resell, either to your friends or to other gold members, and the last valid reason to have a disc is gone in my mind.

 

 

IMO the best thing for digital is to have more than one place to buy. Allow the likes of Amazon, Game, Gamestop etc all to sell you digital content (not just pre-paid cards) and then they'll start competing with one another and prices will get more competitive.

[HawkMan]

4 minutes ago, Andrew said:

Probably because a digital "sale" on X1 brings the price down to launch RRP, at best. Comparing GOG and Steam prices to Xbox Store is not realistic in the slightest. That is why PC gamers are so comfortable with "digital only" for the most part.

Digital sales on xbox one is still doing very well though. 

[HawkMan]

2 minutes ago, Skiver said:

IMO the best thing for digital is to have more than one place to buy. Allow the likes of Amazon, Game, Gamestop etc all to sell you digital content (not just pre-paid cards) and then they'll start competing with one another and prices will get more competitive.

I believe MS did and possibly do. they did on the 360 at least with some amazone partnership thing. 

[George P Global Moderator]

3 minutes ago, Andrew said:

Probably because a digital "sale" on X1 brings the price down to launch RRP, at best. Comparing GOG and Steam prices to Xbox Store is not realistic in the slightest. That is why PC gamers are so comfortable with "digital only" for the most part.

I've purchased a number of games digitally from anywhere between $10 and $30 depending on how new it is,  When you get sales of 40%-60% off, depending on how new the game is, then what more can you ask for?  It's not like GoG or Steam gives you 80% off on new titles either.

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

Just now, George P said:

I've purchased a number of games digitally from anywhere between $10 and $30 depending on how new it is,  When you get sales of 40%-60% off, depending on how new the game is, then what more can you ask for?  It's not like GoG or Steam gives you 80% off on new titles either.

You wouldn't understand not coming from the UK market. Trust me, PSN and X1 digital sales are laughable. Nobody expects 80% off new titles, just not 20% markup on top of RRP

[HawkMan]

1 minute ago, Andrew said:

You wouldn't understand not coming from the UK market. Trust me, PSN and X1 digital sales are laughable. Nobody expects 80% off new titles, just not 20% markup on top of RRP

look at his location, he's in a market that's, if anything, probably worse than UK. but it's motly the same EU market anyway, UK actually tends to be better off than many of the rest of us europeans. UK get less sales than US, but here in Norway, we basically get none of them. 

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

Just now, HawkMan said:

look at his location, he's in a market that's, if anything, probably worse than UK. but it's motly the same EU market anyway, UK actually tends to be better off than many of the rest of us europeans. UK get less sales than US, but here in Norway, we basically get none of them. 

I'm not talking about economic markets, but yes I know how bad Greece has it (I've witnessed the protests first hand).

 

My point is that physical will always beat digital in the UK with our retail competition.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

29 minutes ago, Andrew said:

I'm not talking about economic markets, but yes I know how bad Greece has it (I've witnessed the protests first hand).

 

My point is that physical will always beat digital in the UK with our retail competition.

And that competition exists because it's multiple stores competing. 

 

This will never exist on digital only consoles having one closed store. Think having to buy Gears of War 3 for £59 and then a season pass for £40 for nearly every game. 

 

I can't remember the last time I spent more than £40 for a game new. Most new games it's £30-35 at launch, or even less with cashback and/or discount vouchers. Or retailer reward points as well.