PS4.5 / PS4K is codenamed NEO, more info

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

9 hours ago, Vandalsquad said:

Ah yes, was that after the Australian dev kit leaks by that kid in Perth on the Xbox one to match? My memory isn't quite what I remember it being. 

 

Needless to say if Sony bump the specs again since they want to release we'll ahead of Scorpio then Microsoft will follow. They don't want the stigma of being the under powered console again. I do see them trying to bump even harder with the One Slim even having 4K video now.

No, the Durango kit leaked in 2012, so quite a while before the PS4 unveiling. Infact Durango kits had more than 8 GB RAM; there was reports of 12.

 

This article details the last minute change. Similar story as Epic pushing MS to double the 360's memory for GoW.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

17 minutes ago, Andrew said:

No, the Durango kit leaked in 2012, so quite a while before the PS4 unveiling. Infact Durango kits had more than 8 GB RAM; there was reports of 12.

 

This article details the last minute change. Similar story as Epic pushing MS to double the 360's memory for GoW.

Based Cerny.

[Jason S. Global Moderator]

On 6/10/2016 at 8:53 PM, Emn1ty said:

I think it's safe to make the distinction about how a company cares about its customers. They care about them as a group, not as individuals (though sometimes that's not really the case). They do have some form of reputation to uphold, to say that companies don't actually care about their customers is a bit daft and ignorant at best. While I agree Sony probably cares the least, it's a bit overreaching to generalize such a statement to every company.

it was a generalized statement on purpose. companies cannot afford to be in the business of customer appreciation, or they'd all be out of business. They exist to compete and make profit. that's it. So then Sony wants to make a new version of the PS4 less than 3yrs after the original, theyre not thinking "gosh, the people arent going to like this... let's not do it." No, instead, they say "people will love our new product b/c it gives them the flexibility to choose."

 

People tend to believe that theyre owed something from companies, or that theyre entitled to something. Whether it's Sony, or Amazon, or a neighborhood restaurant, it's the same thing. People think they the business is working for them.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

5 minutes ago, Jason S. said:

it was a generalized statement on purpose. companies cannot afford to be in the business of customer appreciation, or they'd all be out of business. They exist to compete and make profit. that's it. So then Sony wants to make a new version of the PS4 less than 3yrs after the original, theyre not thinking "gosh, the people arent going to like this... let's not do it." No, instead, they say "people will love our new product b/c it gives them the flexibility to choose."

 

People tend to believe that theyre owed something from companies, or that theyre entitled to something. Whether it's Sony, or Amazon, or a neighborhood restaurant, it's the same thing. People think they the business is working for them.

Sony from the PS3 era should remind people of that

 

/2ndjob

[Paul1979UK]

I think we have to remember that even if the new PS Neo could do 4k which is unlikely for most games, I doubt it will happen because developers won't go for that unless they are forced to by Sony, most developers will ramp up the graphics at 1080p a lot rather than go 4k which would make the 1080p games look much better than 4k games, I don't think that will change until consoles can handle real 4k comfortably which won't be anytime soon and as we already know, graphics sells even on consoles so a lot of developers will push for 1080p at 30fps but ramp up the graphics a lot or the best we can hope for with Neo is 1080p 60fps because that require little work on the developers but even then I suspect as the PC starts to pull ahead again, many developers will go back to 30fps and ramp up the graphics.

[+Asmodai MVC]

So Microsoft announced Project Scorpio for Christmas 2017.  I'm REALLY not keen on these mid-cycle upgrades (as you may have noticed from my prior comments in this thread) but I have to say if I'm going to spend $300+ on an upgraded console and Scorpio specs are better than Neo's I'm more than happy to wait a year and grab my first Xbox ever instead of buying another PS4.  I've been a PlayStation guy since PS1 (including both PSP and Vita) and never owned an Xbox at all but if grabbing Scorpio next year means I'll be able to play the backward compatible library of 360 games, Xbox One games, and most likely the best version of the Scorpio/Neo multi-platform games and still play any PlayStation exclusives on my launch PS4 then I guess I'll be an Xbox guy.  Heck cross-buy with Win10 doesn't hurt either since I have a gaming PC as well.  I can't imagine many existing PS4 owners would opt to buy another, lower spec than Scorpio, PS4 console just because it's coming out a year or so earlier.  Heck I waited about a year between the Xbox360 launch and my PS3 I can wait a year between Neo and Scorpio.

[soniqstylz]

^^^^^

 

My bet is that there's no way Scorpio is $300.  The 500GB Slim is $300 now. Same with Neo.

[vcfan]

23 hours ago, Vandalsquad said:

Ah yes, was that after the Australian dev kit leaks by that kid in Perth on the Xbox one to match? My memory isn't quite what I remember it being. 

 

Needless to say if Sony bump the specs again since they want to release we'll ahead of Scorpio then Microsoft will follow. They don't want the stigma of being the under powered console again. I do see them trying to bump even harder with the One Slim even having 4K video now.

if theyre changing silicon specs now, theyre not releasing before scorpio unless they use off the shelf components. the process is way too long

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

BBC: You have a new PlayStation, or upgraded PlayStation 4 in the works, why aren't we seeing that at E3 this year?

House: Really, very very simple. Just as was the case with PlayStation VR we feel that it's important to show people the new hardware, the new platform, when we have got the full range of experiences that can take advantage of it.

BBC: Now, PlayStations have had refreshes over the course of the lifecycle of every single generation of PlayStation, but this is a slightly different refresh, isn't it, because it's a hardware refresh as well, it's not just cosmetic. Is this indicative of a new strategy for the PlayStation, that there's going to be more heavy-duty upgrades over the course of a console's lifecycle?

House: Well, to be very clear, the high end PS4, codenamed Neo, that we are working on, is an addition to the existing lineup, not a replacement. Perhaps we have an opportunity to move slightly away from just a static console that remains absolutely the same for a period of six, seven, eight years. And perhaps offer, in addition to 
the current PS4, something a little extra. Particularly, and I should stress this, in the area of graphic fidelity, and games that will essentially play an awful lot prettier than games have previously

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36524689

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

9 minutes ago, Audioboxer said:

 

 

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36524689

I really don't understand why both MS and Sony have announced / confirmed the existance of these consoles. The sales of OG PS4 and X1 is surely going to stall big time. It didn't impact May's NPD because it was only a rumour, but that's all changed now.

 

I really wish both of them just stuck it out 1 more year and moved onto 9th gen in 2018

[adrynalyne]

1 minute ago, Andrew said:

I really don't understand why both MS and Sony have announced / confirmed the existance of these consoles. The sales of OG PS4 and X1 is surely going to stall big time. It didn't impact May's NPD because it was only a rumour, but that's all changed now.

Not if they also issue a notable price drop.

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

1 minute ago, adrynalyne said:

Not if they also issue a notable price drop.

Any potential savings would be better put toward a console far more powerful 1 yr later

[adrynalyne]

Just now, Andrew said:

Any potential savings would be better put toward a console far more powerful 1 yr later

Sure, for you. Not all consumers feel that way. In fact I daresay a large percentage of them do not. That is also why people buy previous model year cars as they are being phased out.

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

11 minutes ago, adrynalyne said:

Sure, for you. Not all consumers feel that way. In fact I daresay a large percentage of them do not. That is also why people buy previous model year cars as they are being phased out.

Why for me? I'm in the same boat as everyone else.

 

And you're assuming that this year wouldn't have seen more price drops as we have done each year the consoles have been available. The PS4 is already hovering around £270. Introduce a slim at £300 or below and drop the old model further and you get a sale spike without fragmentation.

 

PSVR, Oculus and Vive have pretty much bulldozed a new generation onto us before it was called for.

[adrynalyne]

1 minute ago, Andrew said:

Why for me? I'm in the same boat as everyone else.

 

And you're assuming that this year wouldn't have seen more price drops as we have done each year the consoles have been available. The PS4 is already hovering around £270. Introduce a slim at £300 or below and drop the old model further and you get a sale spike without fragmentation.

 

PSVR, Oculus and Vive have pretty much bulldozed a new generation onto us before it was called for.

You made it clear that is how you felt. So that is true, for you. Do you deny it? Until recently, I have always bought consoles at the end of their lifecycle. It costs less and I don't have to wait on content.

 

As for price drop assumptions, I am not assuming anything. Read what I said again.

[+Asmodai MVC]

14 hours ago, soniqstylz said:

^^^^^

 

My bet is that there's no way Scorpio is $300.  The 500GB Slim is $300 now. Same with Neo.

Note I said $300+ (the plus meaning "or more"), I doubt Scorpio will be $300 as well.

[soniqstylz]

7 hours ago, Asmodai said:

Note I said $300+ (the plus meaning "or more"), I doubt Scorpio will be $300 as well.

Yeah I'm just expecting Scorpio to be at least $449, simply based on the "most powerful console ever" comment.  Depending on specs I expect Neo to be about the same.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Quote

 

House, though, says Neo is not the beginning of the next generation.

 

"It's a higher end version of the PlayStation 4," he says. "We will absolutely have a single community of players. All of the games releasing within this life cycle [of consoles] will absolutely be playable on the standard PS4 … This just offers the consumer another option. If you are looking for the highest graphics performance, if you recent bought a 4K TV and you're looking for content, then Neo is going to be great option for you. But it is that – an option – rather than saying the cycle has moved on."

 

House declined to discuss whether Neo would be coming out this year or next. However, he said, it's important that the large (and still growing) PS4 user base feel neither rushed, nor that the pace of improvement was too slow.

 

"People invest in a console and they want to have that investment validated over a decent period of time," he said. "That being said, with iterations like Neo we are, to some degree as an industry, acknowledging the pace of iteration has shifted. … People have become attuned to a slightly different cadence of innovation. The critical thing is to give the consumer options, rather than dictate the future for them."

 

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/06/14/sony-expect-playstation-vr-shortages.html

[dipsylalapo Supervisor]

22 hours ago, Andrew said:

I really don't understand why both MS and Sony have announced / confirmed the existance of these consoles. The sales of OG PS4 and X1 is surely going to stall big time. It didn't impact May's NPD because it was only a rumour, but that's all changed now.

 

I really wish both of them just stuck it out 1 more year and moved onto 9th gen in 2018

Not everyone will be looking to make the jump to the new consoles. The cost of upgrading to a new TV and console, you're look at the best part of £1000. I don't think that it'll make that much of a difference to the current consoles.

[-T- Member]

I'm excited to see when Sony will release this, order my Xbox One S already and I'll add a Neo & Scorpio to my collection asap 

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Quote

Several sources have indicated to me that PlayStation Neo launches this year, despite its E3 no-show. If that is the case, it'll be interesting to see how developers utilise its resources, and whether 4K really is the focus. And we can be equally as sure that Microsoft will be watching just as intently as it gears up for its own next-gen roll-out.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-are-4k-visuals-really-the-best-use-for-playstation-neo-and-project-scorpio

[SYBINX]

After speaking to a contact of mine, who said originally Sony had no plans to make another console as he was advised by a Sony Ref. Who would have said this anyway otherwise they would have probably been sacked. he's been advised the reason for the 4.5 is because the current PS4 wasn't powerful enough for the Sony VR and this is the whole reason behind the PS4.5. Although, it will be considerably more expensive than the original PS4.

 

Will I buy one. indeed I will.

[+Asmodai MVC]

On 6/18/2016 at 8:58 AM, SYBINX said:

After speaking to a contact of mine, who said originally Sony had no plans to make another console as he was advised by a Sony Ref. Who would have said this anyway otherwise they would have probably been sacked. he's been advised the reason for the 4.5 is because the current PS4 wasn't powerful enough for the Sony VR and this is the whole reason behind the PS4.5. Although, it will be considerably more expensive than the original PS4.

 

Will I buy one. indeed I will.

After speaking to a contact of mine, he said Sony didn't want to make the Neo a differently spec'd console at all and it is most definitely NOT for VR (or 4k GAMING for that matter - 4k video playback for Netflix, Amazon, Youtube, etc. IS a focus though just like on the Xbox One S).

If it was for VR then they would REQUIRE Neo for VR but PSVR runs just fine on launch consoles.

The reason they DID make a different spec console was because there is NO die shrink for the "Jaguar"/"Pitcairn" to 14nm from AMD.

Historically the die shrink have been pretty straightforward so, for example, PS3 went from 90nm to 65nm to 45/40nm (CPU/GPU).

 

This time however it's not a simple size reduction as it would have to go from "planar" to "FinFET" transistors which requires a complete redesign of the chip.  AMD has no intention of doing this redesign on it's own as they aren't going to release commercial Jaguar/Pitcairn chips at 14nm.  If Sony (or Microsoft) wanted this they would have to fund the R&D themselves which is far more expensive than Sony is prepared to pay.  As a result Sony moved to custom versions of AMD's upcoming 14nm tech.  The GPU in the Neo as a result is based on an under-clocked Radeon RX 480 and the CPU is based on AMD's new Zen core which has been referred to as "Zen-lite" and NOT "Jaguar".  It was far cheaper for Sony to introduce launch PS4-like tweaks to AMDs existing 14nm Zen/Polaris technology then it would have been to re-engineer 28nm planar Jaguar/Pitcairn to 14nm FinFET.

 

I'm also not sure what you mean by "considerably more expensive than the original PS4."  The Neo will likely cost $399 (possibly more sku's with higher prices for greater internal storage), the same as the original console when it was launched (but more expensive than the original is currently selling for and you can expect a further price cut on the original model until inventory sells out once the Neo launches).

 

Things MAY change to some degree also because Sony had no idea about Microsoft's Project Scorpio and if that will in any way alter their future plans. Sony seems to have actively tried to MINIMIZE the differences between the Neo and launch hardware while moving to the newer 14nm FinFET process whereas MS seems to be embracing the differences in their upcoming Project Scorpio.  I'm curious as to what exactly is inside the Xbox One S, if MS actually paid AMD to design a 14nm FinFet Jaguar or if they've just added some new chips for 4k processing in addition to the launch 28nm APU or what.

 

 

[George P Global Moderator]

Wishful thinking by people online, the neo is going to be what it's going to be, as long as it releases this year there's nothing Sony can do this late in the game to change the GPU/CPU SoC, adding more RAM to a system is one thing, it doesn't adversely effect your process or any balancing you've done, it's just ram you can add and take away at any point.   Taking out a whole GPU and trying to design around a new one months before you're suppose to release a new system is crazy to even think of.

 

From the leaked specs, the Neo is using a downclocked RX480, which at best does a bit over 5.5teraflops if you run it at full speed (maybe if you OC it a bit too) and that's with a fast desktop class CPU, something you're NOT going to see in a console.  In order to keep these things cool, quiet and fit in a small package like Sony wants for the Neo (I bet the Neo and OG PS4 share design and maybe differ very little), there's no way you're going to run the hardware at it's max, they'll be running slower, thus the 4.1-4.2 tflops numbers.

 

People should just come to terms with it now, for whatever reason it's being done, due to the release schedule, if it's this year or early 2017, it's going to end up as the weaker of the two systems this time around.   MS talking about 6 teraflops for the Scorpio and it's release schedule being holiday 2017 means, the way I see it from the leaks and timetables being talked about, it'll be using AMDs new Vega GPU, which is coming next year, and not the current RX480 Polaris GPU.   While the current RX480 can sorta do true 4k right now,  who knows what we'll get with Vega next year and a whole new GPU architecture?

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

They haven't even formally announced the console, let alone the release date. I seriously don't think it's coming in 2016. For all we know, they have pushed back release to late 2017 to match MS.