Msstyles for WindowBlinds

[Frogboy Administrators]

If you have Object Desktop you can download SkinStudio 4.09 (a beta). Once installed and run, from then on, msstyles when double clicked on will automatically be turned into WindowBlinds visual styles. It's pretty seamless with the only option right now being to optimize for performance or quality. If you do performance, it will remove a few minor things that few will notice but will make it significantly faster. If you choose quality, the performance will be the same as a normal msstyle but additional features (such as menu skinning) will be added to it based on other parts of the skin.

So with SkinStudio 4.1 installed, you can use any format you want without having to mess around with hacking system files.

Here's a video demo done with Windows Media Player 9.

Video Demo (requires WMP 9 installed)

Right now, SkinStudio 4.09 is only available Object Desktop (www.objectdesktop.com) users. But it'll be generally available in a few weeks.

[Tim Dorr Veteran]

Can I assume this will be in the free version?

If so, this means you can either pay an un-accelerated theme changer like StyleXP for $19.95, or buy an accellerated theme changer that also supports the superior UIS1 and UIS2 theme formats.

I hope this convinces a few more people to try out WB. It's been such a great product for me so far :)

[CrimsonBlur]

Best. Feature. Ever.

[Bant Veteran]

is there some sort of way theme authors can lock people out of their visualstyles through skinstudio to prevent ripping and such? you know, like, a password protection or something? if there were, i'd surely reconsider building styles for wb again...

[Frogboy Administrators]

Yes. This will be in the free version. ;)

More details on Performance vs. Quality.

If you choose the performance option, it basically is the same as an msstyles visually except for the MDI child window buttons (which we're going to address in WB 4.3 anyway and few people will probably notice). But the performance option is roughly 3X as fast at drawing as an msstyle via uxtheme.

If you choose Quality, it will then add menu skinning and other features that msstyles don't support but can be extrapolated based on other parts of the msstyles.

[nazgul]

Wow, nice new feature.

[MajorSham]

- The UIS format may be superior (I don't skin anything, therefore I don't really care).

- WindowBlinds may be faster in some ways (Again, don't know, but every time I've installed WindowBlinds on my machine, it's been slower than MSSYLES themes).

BUT

MSSTYLES are natively supported by Windows, and do not require any third party software. To use your own, simply hex edit uxtheme.dll or download one that has already been modifed. It's free, and it works well.

Personally, I don't care for StyleXP or WindowBlinds. Both are applications that take up memory, add entries into the registry, and so forth.

Finally, this is a shameless plug from a company employee. Can't you simply announce the program on your website?

[Frogboy Administrators]

is there some sort of way theme authors can lock people out of their visualstyles through skinstudio to prevent ripping and such? you know, like, a password protection or something? if there were, i'd surely reconsider building styles for wb again...

Bant - this is something we're working on in fact. We face the same issue you do with that since our premium skins can be ripped. The goal is to let SkinStudio export a file in an encrypted way. But it won't be for a bit.

That said, sites like WinCustomize and elsewhere are pretty good about keeping rips from showing up. The moderators will regularly download a skin and load pieces into Photoshop to compare two to make sure ripping isn't occuring.

But from a skin author point of view - remember, WindowBlinds displays the author info as part of the skin. Msstyles authors are basically anonymous (whether you're using the uxtheme patcher or something like Style XP, the author info never shows up anywhere).

Let me give you an example of waht I mean. I downloaded one of Kol's msstyles. Double clicked on it, and it imported it and applied it. I opened up display properties and this is what I get:

This has other advantages as well for both skinners and users -- automatic installation. Msstyles users have to download a .ZIP, open it up, and then copy the folder with the msstyles and shellstyle into the windows\resources\themes directory. Not hard but a bit tedious. By contrast, here you just double click on the .msstyles and it's imported and put in the proper place ready to go and applied.

[Frogboy Administrators]

- The UIS format may be superior (I don't skin anything, therefore I don't really care).

- WindowBlinds may be faster in some ways (Again, don't know, but every time I've installed WindowBlinds on my machine, it's been slower than MSSYLES themes).

BUT

MSSTYLES are natively supported by Windows, and do not require any third party software. To use your own, simply hex edit uxtheme.dll or download one that has already been modifed. It's free, and it works well.

Personally, I don't care for StyleXP or WindowBlinds. Both are applications that take up memory, add entries into the registry, and so forth.

Finally, this is a shameless plug from a company employee. Can't you simply announce the program on your website?

Are you sayiing you run your system with no third party software whatsoever?

But a few things:

1) Msstyles imported with the performance option will be faster on any machine, any configuration to the point where you can feel the difference instantly. Especially when you move a window or resize it or switch around to other windows. 99% of WindowBlinds visual styles use UIS2 which is more powerful but not optimized for speed. Imported msstyles use UIS1 which was designed for compatibility and speed.

2) WindowBlinds visual styles use LESS memory than msstyles do. This has to do with how the graphics are used and shared globally.

3) The overhead of wbload.exe is like 2 megs. Open up your task list and look at the size of things.

4) Uxtheme isn't native anymore than Microsoft Movie Maker is "native". It's just a program Microsoft bundled with Windows XP. It's like saying you won't use Microsoft Word because Word Pad is more "native".

5) This is the WindowBlinds section. *I* am the moderator of this section. If you don't like discussions that originate by the moderator then you should probably find another forum. ;)

[kagaku]

is there some sort of way theme authors can lock people out of their visualstyles through skinstudio to prevent ripping and such? you know, like, a password protection or something? if there were, i'd surely reconsider building styles for wb again...

That just makes things a pain in the ass for normal users who like the modify themes for personal use.

[Frogboy Administrators]

Sure, but ultimately it's probably a good thing for skin authors to have the option. Most skin authors would probably not lock their files (I wouldn't). But it is nice to have an option for those skin authors who are concerned about having their stuff ripped.

Either way though, such a thing is pretty far into the future. Right now we're concentrating on making WindowBlinds and SkinStudio better for the widest audience possible (such as this post showing how msstyles can be used now pretty seamlessly).

[Frogboy Administrators]

BTW, another nice thing about importing an msstyle into WindowBlinds: The colorizing...

[xRKx]

Either way though, such a thing is pretty far into the future. Right now we're concentrating on making WindowBlinds and SkinStudio better for the widest audience possible (such as this post showing how msstyles can be used now pretty seamlessly).

This is /wonderful/ for those of us who vastly prefer Windowblinds, but tend to prefer the msstyles that have come out lately! Well, that, and those of us who are too lazy to do the conversions on our own in skinstudio.

Maybe I'll be over my current Windows Classic kick whenever I have enough money to renew my OD subscription. ^_^

BTW, another nice thing about importing an msstyle into WindowBlinds: The colorizing...

That and console window skinning. Easily two of WindowBlinds' best features!

[MajorSham]

Are you sayiing you run your system with no third party software whatsoever?

Is that a childish question? Of course I install third party software. However, my point is that I don't feel I need to install third party software when I can accomplish the same exact thing (at least as far as what I desire) without third party software. Additionally, MSSTYLES is always running anyway, unless you switch to Windows Classic and stop the Themes service. Why add on to that 10-20 megabyte RAM usage?

1) Msstyles imported with the performance option will be faster on any machine, any configuration to the point where you can feel the difference instantly. Especially when you move a window or resize it or switch around to other windows.  99% of WindowBlinds visual styles use UIS2 which is more powerful but not optimized for speed. Imported msstyles use UIS1 which was designed for compatibility and speed.

As I stated before, personally I did not notice a speed increase.

2) WindowBlinds visual styles use LESS memory than msstyles do. This has to do with how the graphics are used and shared globally.

And the memory that is saved is instead used by the WindowBlinds application.

3) The overhead of wbload.exe is like 2 megs. Open up your task list and look at the size of things.

That measurement is rarely accurate. That simply states how much RAM is being used. It doesn't specify how much of the application is paged, and frankly, few people run Windows without a page file.

4) Uxtheme isn't native anymore than Microsoft Movie Maker is "native". It's just a program Microsoft bundled with Windows XP.  It's like saying you won't use Microsoft Word because Word Pad is more "native".

I don't recall stating that I use the default skinning engine because it is "native". Not only that, if you take that stance with everything in Windows, Explorer.exe is not "native". And the Plug and Play service? Not "native". They are all applications and services which can be stopped, deleted and so forth. However, there is no way you can not install the Themes service. It comes with Windows, and is on Windows' WFP list, so it's kind of hard to remove. On top of this, WindowBlinds interfaces with this themeing service, does it not? To use WindowBlinds you must have the Themes service running, also taking up memory? Why have both when you can use just one?

5) This is the WindowBlinds section. *I* am the moderator of this section. If you don't like discussions that originate by the moderator then you should probably find another forum. ;)

Part of being a moderator means that you don't decide what people talk about. You are the "moderate" party in all discussions. You don't have to agree with me, simply make sure I don't start insulting other members, post porn, et cetera.

[Dazzla Veteran]

You can disable the theme service then run WB, WB itself takes less memory then the theme service.

[BroChaos Veteran]

you can easily turn off the theming services. it's recommended actually.

[xRKx]

Yup - since version 4 I've never had WB take up more than 2.5 megs on my system.

[Crayon]

i've read people talkin about disabling the theme service before too, so i went into my services and disabled it completely from ever starting, but it always starts itself up automatically whenever i restart windows.

[#Michael]

i've read people talkin about disabling the theme service before too, so i went into my services and disabled it completely from ever starting, but it always starts itself up automatically whenever i restart windows.

That's because the theme service is set to start automatically. When you disable it, also change it to either manuel or disabled.

[Frogboy Administrators]

Is that a childish question? Of course I install third party software. However, my point is that I don't feel I need to install third party software when I can accomplish the same exact thing (at least as far as what I desire) without third party software. Additionally, MSSTYLES is always running anyway, unless you switch to Windows Classic and stop the Themes service. Why add on to that 10-20 megabyte RAM usage?

As I stated before, personally I did not notice a speed increase.

And the memory that is saved is instead used by the WindowBlinds application.

That measurement is rarely accurate. That simply states how much RAM is being used. It doesn't specify how much of the application is paged, and frankly, few people run Windows without a page file.

I don't recall stating that I use the default skinning engine because it is "native". Not only that, if you take that stance with everything in Windows, Explorer.exe is not "native". And the Plug and Play service? Not "native". They are all applications and services which can be stopped, deleted and so forth. However, there is no way you can not install the Themes service. It comes with Windows, and is on Windows' WFP list, so it's kind of hard to remove. On top of this, WindowBlinds interfaces with this themeing service, does it not? To use WindowBlinds you must have the Themes service running, also taking up memory? Why have both when you can use just one?

Part of being a moderator means that you don't decide what people talk about. You are the "moderate" party in all discussions. You don't have to agree with me, simply make sure I don't start insulting other members, post porn, et cetera.

1) It was not a "childish" question. Speaking of moderator warning, please avoid making personal attacks. It was a legitimate question as your post seemed to focus on the "nativeness" of it.

2) Msstyles uses the themes service. You can turn it off and just use WindowBlinds.

3) Just because *you* can't tell a difference doesn't mean that most people can't. I can definitely notice that WindowBlinds is faster and so can most other people. But that's not even the main thing, WindowBlinds offers so many other features. One example: I have my right click button set to minimize windows when I click on the title bar. Even if WindowBlinds didn't skin anything, it would be worth it just for that. Plus it skins a lot more things giving a more complete, polished look.

4) This fixation on RAM usage. Again: Open your task manager. Explorer on its own uses (here) 14 megs of active RAM plus another 30 megs of paged (virtual) memory. And you're worried about a few megs? On most setups, using WindowBlinds (after turning off the theme service) actually saves you a couple of megabytes of memory. But either way though, we're talking a pretty trivial amount relative to what a modern machine has on it.

5) As the moderator I also have the right to post topics. I am also a news admin here on Neowin which means I also help determine what news items show up here at Neowin. Posting information on WindowBlinds, in the WindowBlinds forum is part of my job here as part of the Neowin staff.

6) No one is forcing you to use WindowBlinds. If you like having to repatch your files every time Microsoft updates the OS, that's your business. Be glad WindowBlinds allows for importing because come Longhorn, none of these msstyles will work. They'll have to be converted to a format that does work on Longhorn - such as WindowBlinds.

[MajorSham]

It was not a "childish" question. Speaking of moderator warning, please avoid making personal attacks. It was a legitimate question as your post seemed to focus on the "nativeness" of it.

I was only responding in that way because your comment also seemed insulting.

2) Msstyles uses the themes service. You can turn it off and just use WindowBlinds.

I am aware that MSStyle files are used by the themes service. However, information I have read about WindowBlinds in the past has stated that WindowBlinds interfaced with the themes service. I guess this is no longer the case.

3) Just because *you* can't tell a difference doesn't mean that most people can't. I can definitely notice that WindowBlinds is faster and so can most other people. But that's not even the main thing, WindowBlinds offers so many other features. One example: I have my right click button set to minimize windows when I click on the title bar. Even if WindowBlinds didn't skin anything, it would be worth it just for that. Plus it skins a lot more things giving a more complete, polished look.

I may have to try it again then.

4) This fixation on RAM usage. Again: Open your task manager. Explorer on its own uses (here) 14 megs of active RAM plus another 30 megs of paged (virtual) memory.? And you're worried about a few megs? On most setups, using WindowBlinds (after turning off the theme service) actually saves you a couple of megabytes of memory. But either way though, we're talking a pretty trivial amount relative to what a modern machine has on it.

My fixation on RAM usage stems exclusively from the fact that decreased RAM usage is advertised as a benefit of the program.

5) As the moderator I also have the right to post topics. I am also a news admin here on Neowin which means I also help determine what news items show up here at Neowin. Posting information on WindowBlinds, in the WindowBlinds forum is part of my job here as part of the Neowin staff.

Of course you have the right to post topics, and looking at your profile, I am aware that you are a news poster. My point is however, that when you disagree with someone, you can't just flash your "mod badge" and order them to either like what you say, or leave.

6) No one is forcing you to use WindowBlinds. If you like having to repatch your files every time Microsoft updates the OS, that's your business. Be glad WindowBlinds allows for importing because come Longhorn, none of these msstyles will work. They'll have to be converted to a format that does work on Longhorn - such as WindowBlinds.

I never said that anyone was forcing me to use WindowBlinds. Concerning the repatching of uxtheme.dll, you only have to repatch uxtheme.dll when that specific file is updated. I have only encountered the need to repatch uxtheme.dll once - after updating to SP1.

Concerning Longhorn, of course to improve the features of the skinning engine, the msstyles format will change. That doesn't mean that you still can't create new skins for use in Longhorn, and I doubt that MS will come up with some silver bullet to prevent the use of new skins.

Edited January 10, 2004 by Divide Overflow

[bangbang023 Veteran]

I have one question. In the old skinstudio, the conversion wasn't all that great, especially on Dazzla's Olive Dynamine. Has this sisue been addressed at all?

[FatCat]

sound great the video was bad though :( silver gris taskbar looked messed up, maybe it was just the video, but this really is sweet.

[Frogboy Administrators]

Concerning Longhorn, of course to improve the features of the skinning engine, the msstyles format will change. That doesn't mean that you still can't create new skins for use in Longhorn, and I doubt that MS will come up with some silver bullet to prevent the use of new skins.

No. I am saying that the msstyles format, as we know it, does not exist in Longhorn. It isn't being modified, it's gone. It's a totally different thing. It's a vector based, 3D mesh thing. It is highly unlikely one will be able to just patch a resource DLL (a .msstyle file is just a resource DLL renamed. StyleBuilder is essentially a glorified resource hacker, a nice one but that is what it is).

So from a user and skinner point of view, it is a good thing to have alternatives.

Regarding moderation - it was you who criticized me for making this post in the first place.

[Crayon]

wow, finally figured out why the themes service kept restarting itself, it seems the profile part had to be edited too. now i really can tell windowblinds is alot faster thanx AthleticTrainer1981.