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PC either shutting itself down or does not wake from sleep...

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AndyD    21

Hey guys.  Just wondering what you might think the issue is with my PC.   My PC will either not wake from sleep or shut itself down without warning.

 

Some quick comments...

 

I recently took the parts from HTPC and built another PC with it.  The only new parts are...

 

New case

New RAM

1080 Nvidia

 

Before those upgrades, I had no issues whatsoever with the HTPC.   I thought it could be the RAM (needed to use XMP for the higher clocked speeds) but a new set made no difference as it just crashed again.

 

I'm not sure what else could be the problem at this point.  Could the PSU be bad now even though before the switch in parts it was working perfectly?  Maybe I need more wattage?  Thinking no but I'm not sure what's going on.  HTPC was using a 970

 

Specs...

 

i7 Haswell

16 GB Ram  - 2 sticks

Nvidia 1080

660 Platinum Season PSU

2 SSDs

2 Hard drives

On a Asus Z87-Plus

 

Temps seem great all around including the video card - 32C or less.

 

I'm really not sure what to do at this point besides keep buying new parts in the hopes I isolate the issue - ie the PSU is the next part.

 

UPDATE...

 

I checked this website and it seems like I should be fine wattage wise...

 

http://outervision.com/power-supply-calculator

 

 

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limok    58

First thing I'd do is take the 1080 out and use your onboard gpu if you've got one or even the 970. 

 

Eliminate the new items then start focusing on other items. 

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AndyD    21

I should have mentioned...

 

I was using the 1080 for a month on my older PC before decommissioning my HTPC.  That's why I think the card is fine.   I'll try to rule it out though.

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Joe User    443

How old is the power supply?

 

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AndyD    21

Should be 3 years old

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Joe User    443
Just now, AndyD said:

Should be 3 years old

Hmm, that's not usually old enough to start slipping. What are the detailed specs on the PS? 

 

Also, does it follow a pattern? Is it just wake from sleep and the occasional random shutdown?

 

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Mindovermaster    1,491

What SSD and HDD's do you have? Brand and GB Size? Sounds to me like a software issue.

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AndyD    21

I haven't really noticed pattern since the beginning.  At first, it seemed to shutdown every other day.  I then changed RAM timings to be based off XMP profile and thought everything was ok after two days not shutting down but then it happened again.   The red xs in the attached shows all the crashes but no distinction between not coming out of sleep or shutting down.

 

This is the PSU...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151121

 

and specs below

Capture.PNG

psu.PNG

2 minutes ago, Mindovermaster said:

What SSD and HDD's do you have? Brand and GB Size? Sounds to me like a software issue.

See below.   The drives have been working fine for a few years, though.

 

Kingston 120GB SSD

Toshiba 1TB SSD

WD 1TB Black Drive

WD 2TB Green Drive

 

specs.PNG

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Joe User    443

The sleep issue can be a software problem or the power supply.

 

When the system shuts down, is it a bluescreen or just instant power off? 

 

Are you getting lots of application crashes as well?

 

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AndyD    21
3 minutes ago, Joe User said:

The sleep issue can be a software problem or the power supply.

 

When the system shuts down, is it a bluescreen or just instant power off? 

 

Are you getting lots of application crashes as well?

 

 

No bluescreen - I just sometimes find that the PC is shut off completely.

 

Computer runs normally / no app crashing.   When I'm using the PC even for extended gaming periods it never shuts down and works normally.  No temp issues from any devices as well.  

 

It's only when the PC is left alone for some time / goes into sleep mode that the PC shuts down or doesn't wake up.

 

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Mindovermaster    1,491

Could it be a BIOS issue? Maybe the battery is going bad? :/

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AndyD    21
Just now, Mindovermaster said:

Could it be a BIOS issue? Maybe the battery is going bad? :/

Motherboard is about three years old - before moving around parts, the parts were working ok

 

Latest bios...also reapplied just in case.

 

Maybe loose cables?  I'll check that tonight.

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Joe User    443

Last question,  How many watts do you estimate that you're using?

 

I would check the cables, they're usually the first thing to cause random problems. If they're not connected well, the heating/cooling cycle can cause issues like this. But, I'm really leaning towards the power supply starting to go, even though it's a little young for this.

 

Edit: Wait, I missed the HTPC. Was this PS on 24/7 for 3 years?

 

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AndyD    21
46 minutes ago, Joe User said:

Last question,  How many watts do you estimate that you're using?

 

I would check the cables, they're usually the first thing to cause random problems. If they're not connected well, the heating/cooling cycle can cause issues like this. But, I'm really leaning towards the power supply starting to go, even though it's a little young for this.

 

Edit: Wait, I missed the HTPC. Was this PS on 24/7 for 3 years?

 

yeah, I'll probably do an RMA with Seasonic to rule it out.  The calculator on the website said 440watts.  

 

The HTPC was on standby almost all of the time unless I'm watching tv at night or playing a game.  I would say sleep 60% of the time in the last 3 years

 

And I'll check the cables too to be sure

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Circaflex    3,424

I fail to see how a motherboard battery would be the possible cause of this. Did you update the BIOS when you upgraded the RAM to newer sticks? I just dealt with this for over a month on my x99 board and it was the BIOS causing the computer to suddenly shut down, at random. Reverting back to an older, known working BIOS solved it. I also experienced a similar situation on my home server and in the end, it was the power supply causing the computer to lose power and turn back on. I might have missed it, but does the computer stay turned off or does it reboot when you experience this problem? What model is your PSU?

 

NVM: i see it is the SS-660XP2. According to a trusted review, http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story6&reid=326, that is one EXCELLENT power supply. I guess it is possible the unit has started to go bad, but I think that would be unlikely. Have you tried running the computer with the bare minimum in terms of parts installed? Remove any extra drives from power, remove ODD from power, essentially just enough to use the computer and see if the issues decrease or go away completely?

 

EDIT #2, now that I read a little more. Try changing sleep states in the BIOS and maybe disable Fast Boot in your BIOS if there is an option and disable it within Windows.

 

EDIT #3; so it might be your PSU. Apparently after doing some digging, Seasonic and ASUS do not play well, specifically with sleep. ASUS refuses to acknowledge this issue and it has been present all the way back to the p67 chipset and z68 chipset. Some have said disabling hybrid boot/fast boot helps, and to turn off c6 and c7 sleep states. It seems to be an issue with Haswell chips and beyond, some power supplies were not compatible. According to Seasonic yours is 100% compatible, but some other boards I have found topics similar to yours. Switching brands of PSU seems to be the most recommended option. If it were me, I'd play with the sleep settings in the BIOS and see if that makes it any better.

 

Quote

"Even if the sleeping CPU is the only load on the +12V rail, most power supplies can handle a load this low. The potential problem comes up when there is still a substantial load on the power supply's non-primary rails (the +3.3V and +5V). If the load on these non-primary rails are above a certain threshold (which varies by PSU), the +12V can go out of spec (voltages greater than +12.6V). If the +12V is out of spec when the motherboard comes out of the sleep state, the PSU's protection may prevent the PSU from running and will cause the power supply to "latch off". This will require the user to cycle the power on their power supply using the power switch on the back of the unit.

Quote

The issue stems from Intel Haswell processors having a new ultra low-power state, called ZERO-load, that can cause some power supplies to fail when the CPU tries to return to a high-power state.

 

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AndyD    21

Ok thanks for the guidance.

 

The strange thing is that both the motherboard and psu have been for the last few years.  It's only after moving around the parts into a new case and adding some other new hardware that I started to run into issues.  Unless the psu + mobo + new 1080 is the problem.   I haven't had a chance to make sure the tables are all in properly but will do that tomorrow

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Circaflex    3,424
13 hours ago, AndyD said:

Ok thanks for the guidance.

 

The strange thing is that both the motherboard and psu have been for the last few years.  It's only after moving around the parts into a new case and adding some other new hardware that I started to run into issues.  Unless the psu + mobo + new 1080 is the problem.   I haven't had a chance to make sure the tables are all in properly but will do that tomorrow

Yea, I figured the same, however a few of the other threads I found said the problem became worse and worse over time.

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Joe User    443
16 hours ago, AndyD said:

Ok thanks for the guidance.

 

The strange thing is that both the motherboard and psu have been for the last few years.  It's only after moving around the parts into a new case and adding some other new hardware that I started to run into issues.  Unless the psu + mobo + new 1080 is the problem.   I haven't had a chance to make sure the tables are all in properly but will do that tomorrow

Your power draw went up quite a bit with that video card, so the PSU is the most likely problem.  That's what I would swap first.

 

This is assuming no cable issues and something less obvious like your new case isn't accidentally touching the MB.

 

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AndyD    21

So I haven't had an issue since Dec 26th.  Before that it was at least every other day and sometimes more than once a day.   I'm quite perplexed.

 

1)  I did check the cabling but the same day it happened again

 

2)  For whatever reason, I decided to switch the PSU cable I was using to the one that actually came with the power supply.   That was after #1

 

3)  I've updated Nvidia drivers and windows updates since then

 

Could #2 really be the reason?  Or maybe something was fixed in #3?   Not sure if I'm jinxing myself but hopefully I won't have this issue again.  I was very close to purchasing another PSU since Seasonic would not allow an advanced replacement.  Not sure if any companies do but next time I buy a PSU I will check to see if any do.

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+goretsky    906

Hello,

 

Although it seems unlikely, I suppose it could be some kind of mechanical problem in the power supply cable, with wiring in it split, not making good contact with a connector or even shorting it.  Swap the cable, and wait to see if it happens again.

 

Regards,

 

Aryeh Goretsky

 

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AndyD    21
On 1/10/2017 at 2:19 AM, goretsky said:

Hello,

 

Although it seems unlikely, I suppose it could be some kind of mechanical problem in the power supply cable, with wiring in it split, not making good contact with a connector or even shorting it.  Swap the cable, and wait to see if it happens again.

 

Regards,

 

Aryeh Goretsky

 

I haven't had any issues since I switched out the cable.  The cable was the same cable I was using for years on some other PC but I was lazy to switch it out.  

 

Maybe just a coincidence though and something else took care of it.  Just glad it's behind me now :)

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AndyD    21

Well, that wasn't true.   After a few weeks of no issues, I now have two similar crashes.  Reliability attached showing today and two days ago same thing.  I reached out to EVGA about the card and will probably just buy another psu

Capture.PNG

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AndyD    21

So I'm bumping this up since I finally got around to switching my PSU since I still had these random shutdowns.

 

Well, after a week of no problems I found my PC shut down itself again.   It wasn't the PSU.

 

Not sure what else it could be at this point.

 

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+DevTech    1,229
1 hour ago, AndyD said:

So I'm bumping this up since I finally got around to switching my PSU since I still had these random shutdowns.

 

Well, after a week of no problems I found my PC shut down itself again.   It wasn't the PSU.

 

Not sure what else it could be at this point.

 

1. what is new PSU

 

2. Make sure "auto restart on bluescreen" is disabled in system settings

 

3. Update mobo BIOS and try to confirm the mobo knows how to deliver power to the 1080

 

4. All that being said the most likely cause all along would be bad power state management in a device driver which is the typical cause for crashes that never happen when you are using the computer.

 

- One debug technique is to temp disable all possible power saving and suspend states although 100 % coverage of that is probably not possible.

 

- Look for anything "old" or not common in the way of a device via PCi or USB.

 

- Avoid generic Windows drivers from Microsoft wherever possible

 

 

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+DevTech    1,229

Just noticed you had a Seasonic. That would have NEVER been the cause of anything!

 

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