US sanctions Russia over hacking, expels 35 officials

[PGHammer]

In what way am I wrong, Raze?  Note that I did NOT say that he had no reason to be ticked off; the issue is that world leaders (and especially world leaders with nukes at their disposal) are NOT supposed to make it personal - wasn't Donald Trump castigated for supposed plans to do exactly that?

[+Raze Subscriber²]

4 minutes ago, PGHammer said:

In what way am I wrong, Raze?  Note that I did NOT say that he had no reason to be ticked off; the issue is that world leaders (and especially world leaders with nukes at their disposal) are NOT supposed to make it personal - wasn't Donald Trump castigated for supposed plans to do exactly that?

See my previous post, your answer is there.

 

As far as Trump, this thread is not about him or his past antics.  I'm waiting and giving him a chance to see how he does, and until then, there is no reason to compare the two men.

[Hum]

If Russia saved the world from Hillary, then Putin deserves the Nobel prize.

[+Raze Subscriber²]

1 minute ago, Hum said:

If Russia saved the world from Hillary, then Putin deserves the Nobel prize.

No, no, remember he had nothing to do with anything. 

[DocM]

1 hour ago, Raze said:

Oh please, your bias is well known.  Get real.  When you start hitting the conservatives and Trump with the same critical eye, maybe your words will carry weight.  Your knowledge of politics/politicians is exceptional, but severely impaired by the sheer unreasonable bias you exhibit.

I've hit conservatives. Not my fault you weren't there.

 

I'm just replaying history;

 

Wired reported that the hack was found in 2013 and that DNC didn't adequately respond until sometime after September 2015. Many sources reported that the Podesta emails were hacked because he opened a fisching email, which his IT guy had mistakenly cleared.  That Obama didn't react to this for nearly 3 years is 3rd grade calendar math.

 

So NOW it's urgent? Please.  Just in time to attempt setting up a mini-crisis for Trump to deal with? Even Rolling Stone is calling BS.

 

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/something-about-this-russia-story-stinks-w458439

 

Quote

 

Something About This Russia Story Stinks

 

Nearly a decade and a half after the Iraq-WMD faceplant, the American press is again asked to co-sign a dubious intelligence assessment

 

 

[ctebah]

8 minutes ago, Hum said:

If Russia saved the world from Hillary, then Putin deserves the Nobel prize.

Putin hasn't bombed enough countries to get the Nobel Prize.

[+Raze Subscriber²]

52 minutes ago, DocM said:

I've hit conservatives. Not my fault you weren't there.

 

I'm just replaying history;

 

Wired reported that the hack was found in 2013 and that DNC didn't adequately respond until sometime after September 2015. Many sources reported that the Podesta emails were hacked because he opened a fisching email, which his IT guy had mistakenly cleared.  That Obama didn't react to this for nearly 3 years is 3rd grade calendar math.

 

So NOW it's urgent? Please.  Just in time to attempt setting up a mini-crisis for Trump to deal with? Even Rolling Stone is calling BS.

 

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/something-about-this-russia-story-stinks-w458439

 

 

Sure, okay.

 

I've said nothing about what Obama has done* or not done, why are you trying so hard to convince me?  I'm well aware of this President's failures, no history lessons or lectures needed or requested. It appears it's just another opportunity for your to rant and rave about him.  And that is what you're doing by constantly by going on and on about him.

 

*As I said earlier in this thread, "These sanctions and other actions are worthless, too little, too late unfortunately.  Time to just quietly and gracefully fade away, President Obama.  Thanks for your service."

[DocM]

1 minute ago, Raze said:

"These sanctions and other actions are worthless, too little, too late unfortunately.  Time to just quietly and gracefully fade away, President Obama.  Thanks for your service."

On this we can agree. Go away, far away. Soon. Unfortunately, we won't be that lucky. He'll more likely go from Commander in Chief to Agitator in Chief.  He massive ego won't settle for anything so tame as going quietly.

[adrynalyne]

1 minute ago, DocM said:

On this we can agree. Go away, far away. Soon. Unfortunately, we won't be that lucky. He'll more likely go from Commander in Chief to Agitator in Chief.  He massive ego won't settle for anything so tame as going quietly.

Good thing we have someone with a much larger ego taking his place.

[+Raze Subscriber²]

Just now, DocM said:

On this we can agree. Go away, far away. Soon. Unfortunately, we won't be that lucky. He'll more likely go from Commander in Chief to Agitator in Chief.  He massive ego won't settle for anything so tame as going quietly.

I want his 2nd term to end, he can join the Former Presidents Club, quietly without further incident (real or otherwise).   Bill and Hillary could move to Iceland (or anywhere - Somalia perhaps), the Icelandic people don't mess around, they'd end up in prison in no time. 

 

 

[jnelsoninjax]

I find it really hard to believe that the Russian's hacked into the US computers and 'fixed' it so Trump would win... what if anything do they stand to gain from that, that they would not have gotten from Hillary? Everyone is so busy being mad the Trump won, that they are going to look for any reason what so ever to say that he did not 'properly' win, whatever the hell that is supposed to be, the US public voted that they wanted him as our next president, sure Hillary got the popular vote, but that does not count, so of course everyone is acting like f-ing 3 year olds and crying and pointing fingers, perfect example: my mother-in-law is married to a Hispanic who is here legally (green card) she was talking to my parents a while ago and said that she was scared if Trump won, then her husband was going to be deported... despite the fact that he is here legally, she has let the mainstream media convince her that Trump first of all has the power to expel him, and second of is going to do so! My wife (soon to be ex) said "If Trump gets elected, my disability payments are going to stop, because Trump is going to put a stop the social security department!" Of course after I found a you-tube video about the power of the president and what her can and can not do, she quickly shut up about the mater. 

[PGHammer]

1 hour ago, Raze said:

See my previous post, your answer is there.

 

As far as Trump, this thread is not about him or his past antics.  I'm waiting and giving him a chance to see how he does, and until then, there is no reason to compare the two men.

All I said is that President Obama did what Donald Trump was, in fact, constantly accused of planning to do - was, or was not, the whole "unqualified" meme (during the campaign) about his "temper tweets"?  That is what makes the whole view of what President Obama did (not merely in terms of Israel, but even in terms of Putin) a monstrous case of "pot meet kettle", and what makes it hilarious is who is defending EITHER action (not just Israel, but his actions regarding the Russians).  In short, it's not just the GOP that is hammering the outgoing President for it, so are a goodly number of Democrats.  When your own side accuses you of being petulant (which you tried to crow when Trump was attacked by fellow GOPers) you have issues - which I did not deny when it was Trump facing the circular firing squad).  Now it's President Obama - for his actions in office - and the shoe pinches awfully hard, doesn't it?

[+Mirumir Subscriber¹]

 

Quote

‘Not the Russians’: John McAfee talks hacking allegations, cybersecurity with Larry King (VIDEO)

 

“if it looks like the Russians did it, then I can guarantee you it was not the Russians.”

 

The Joint Analysis Report from the FBI contains an appendix that lists hundreds of IP addresses that were supposedly “used by Russian civilian and military intelligence services.” While some of those IP addresses are from Russia, the majority are from all over the world, which means that the hackers constantly faked their location.

 

McAfee argues that the report is a “fallacy,” explaining that hackers can fake their location, their language, and any markers that could lead back to them. Any hacker who had the skills to hack into the DNC would also be able to hide their tracks, he said.

 

“If I was the Chinese and I wanted to make it look like the Russians did it, I would use Russian language within the code, I would use Russian techniques of breaking into the organization,” McAfee said, adding that, in the end, “there simply is no way to assign a source for any attack.”

 

Quote

 

Rep. Franks: If Russia hacked, it was a public service

 

Arizona Republican Rep. Trent Franks isn’t sure if Russia was behind the email hacks that roiled the election. But if they were, he says, the release of information could be considered a public service.

 

 

[Deviate_X]

On 12/29/2016 at 9:20 PM, wakjak said:

http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/312119-us-announces-sanctions-on-russia

 

So much for "do nothing" Obama eh? Wow. Good on Obama for this one.

Its is very appropriate for Obama (and would be for a Republican president) to respond to an attempt to interfere with the election process. Independence and democracy is why America exists after all. Regardless of the outcome, regardless of which party is in power it would be craven for an American president not to act. These measures by Obama are very mild. I would expect Trump will uphold them. He should if he has the strength go beyond them.

[coth]

19 minutes ago, Deviate_X said:

Its is very appropriate for Obama (and would be for a Republican president) to respond to an attempt to interfere with the election process. Independence and democracy is why America exists after all. Regardless of the outcome, regardless of which party is in power it would be craven for an American president not to act. These measures by Obama are very mild. I would expect Trump will uphold them. He should if he has the strength go beyond them.

I don't remember France, Germany and UK imposing any sanction when US was hacking them.

[trag3dy]

7 hours ago, jnelsoninjax said:

I find it really hard to believe that the Russian's hacked into the US computers and 'fixed' it so Trump would win... what if anything do they stand to gain from that, that they would not have gotten from Hillary? Everyone is so busy being mad the Trump won, that they are going to look for any reason what so ever to say that he did not 'properly' win, whatever the hell that is supposed to be, the US public voted that they wanted him as our next president, sure Hillary got the popular vote, but that does not count, so of course everyone is acting like f-ing 3 year olds and crying and pointing fingers, perfect example: my mother-in-law is married to a Hispanic who is here legally (green card) she was talking to my parents a while ago and said that she was scared if Trump won, then her husband was going to be deported... despite the fact that he is here legally, she has let the mainstream media convince her that Trump first of all has the power to expel him, and second of is going to do so! My wife (soon to be ex) said "If Trump gets elected, my disability payments are going to stop, because Trump is going to put a stop the social security department! Of course after I found a you-tube video about the power of the president and what her can and can not do, she quickly shut up about the mater. 

Hillary would treat the Russians the exact opposite of how Trump is saying he will. She would have followed down the same path Obama started us down, which has/had a very good chance of leading to war.

 

Probably in everyone's best interest to avoid that.

[DocM]

Amazon owner Jeff Bezos' Ministry of Truth (aka The Washington Post), which Facebook is using as one of its "fake news" filters, and who earlier stepped in poo knee deep with its PropOrNot sourced "Russian propaganda effort helped spread fake news during election, experts say" and "Poll: Clinton leads by 12 points" stories, strikes again...

 

Quote

@washingtonpost

Breaking: Russian hackers penetrated U.S. electricity grid through a utility in Vermont https://t.co/LED11lL7ej

"A code associated with the Russian hacking operation dubbed Grizzly Steppe by the Obama administration has been detected within the system of a Vermont utility, according to U.S. officials."

 

Matt Tait, ex-GCHQ (the UK's NSA), came back with this....

 

Quote

@pwnallthethings

Treat this story with a whole boatload of caution. No way a proper assessment has been done in < 1 day. 

 

Robert M. Lee - CEO of Dragos, which specializes in critical infrastructure threats.... 

 

IOC = Indicators of Compromise

 

Quote

@RobertMLee

1. No they did not penetrate the grid. 2. The IOCs contained commodity malware - can't attribute based off that 

 

Then this...

 

Quote

@MikaelThalen

Alleged Russian hack of power grid was actually hack on utility company laptop with no access to the grid http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/story/news/local/vermont/2016/12/30/russia-hacked-us-grid-through-burlington-electric/96024326/ 

 

After which POLITICO cybersecurity reporter Eric Geller reported WaPo quickly edited its headline, and added this...

 

Quote

Editors Note: An earlier version of this story incorrectly said that Russian hackers had penetrated the U.S. electric grid. Authorities say there is no indication of that so far. The computer at Burlington Electric that was hacked was not attached to the grid.

 

Then the blowback started....

 

Quote

@RJKippRN

@ericgeller Wouldn't that be definition of 
"fake news" the new "Ministry of Propaganda" is supposed to fact check Oh wait WaPo not conserv
>
@HAWHAWHAW1
@ericgeller WaPo.... a better brand of toilet tissue.

 

Etc. Etc. Etc.

[DocM]

Why am I not surprised?

 

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/vermont-power-grid-hackers-233091

 

Quote

 

DHS: No evidence hackers infected Vermont power grid

 

Federal authorities see no signs that hackers breached Vermont's electric grid using suspected Russian malware that infected a power company's laptop, the Department of Homeland Security said tonight.

 

"While our analysis continues, we currently have no information that indicates that the power grid was penetrated in this cyber incident,” J. Todd Breasseale, DHS's assistant secretary for public affairs, told POLITICO in a statement.

>

 

[jnelsoninjax]

12 hours ago, DocM said:

Why am I not surprised?

 

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/vermont-power-grid-hackers-233091

 

But the evil Russians! First they hacked the voting system to put Trump in office and now they are hacking our power grid?! And it has to be true if the media says it is!

[+Mirumir Subscriber¹]

Trump aide says U.S. sanctions on Russia may be disproportionate

 

 

[DocM]

Ars Technica weighs in,

 

http://arstechnica.com/security/2016/12/did-russia-tamper-with-the-2016-election-bitter-debate-likely-to-rage-on/

 

Quote

 

RISK ASSESSMENT —

 

White House fails to make case that Russian hackers tampered with election

 

US issued JAR billed itself as an indictment that would prove Russian involvement.

 

Talk about disappointments. The US government's much-anticipated analysis of Russian-sponsored hacking operations provides almost none of the promised evidence linking them to breaches that the Obama administration claims were orchestrated in an attempt to interfere with the 2016 presidential election.

 

The 13-page report, which was jointly published Thursday by the Department of Homeland Security and the FBI, billed itself as an indictment of sorts that would finally lay out the intelligence community's case that Russian government operatives carried out hacks on the Democratic National Committee, the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, and Clinton Campaign Chief John Podesta and leaked much of the resulting material. While security companies in the private sector have said for months the hacking campaign was the work of people working for the Russian government, anonymous people tied to the leaks have claimed they are lone wolves. Many independent security experts said there was little way to know the true origins of the attacks.

 

Sadly, the JAR, as the Joint Analysis Report is called, does little to end the debate. Instead of providing smoking guns that the Russian government was behind specific hacks, it largely restates previous private-sector claims without providing any support for their validity. Even worse, it provides an effective bait and switch by promising newly declassified intelligence into Russian hackers' "tradecraft and techniques" and instead delivering generic methods carried out by just about all state-sponsored hacking groups.

 

"This ultimately seems like a very rushed report put together by multiple teams working different data sets and motivations," Robert M. Lee, CEO and Founder of the security company Dragos, wrote in a critique published Friday. "It is my opinion and speculation that there were some really good government analysts and operators contributing to this data and then report reviews, leadership approval processes, and sanitation processes stripped out most of the value and left behind a very confusing report trying to cover too much while saying too little."

 

The sloppiness, Lee noted, included the report's conflation of Russian hacking groups APT28 and APT29—also known as CozyBear, Sandworm, Sednit, and Sofacy, among others—with malware names such as BlackEnergy and Havex, and even hacking capabilities such as "Powershell Backdoor." The mix up of such basic classifications does little to inspire confidence that the report was carefully or methodically prepared. And that only sows more reasons for President elect Donald Trump and his supporters to cast doubt on the intelligence community's analysis on a matter that, if true, poses a major national security threat.

 

The writers showed a similar lack of rigor when publishing so-called indicators of compromise, which security practitioners use to detect if a network has been breached by a specific group or piece of malware. As Errata Security CEO Rob Graham pointed out in a blog post, one of the signatures detects the presence of "PAS TOOL WEB KIT," a tool that's widely used by literally hundreds, and possibly thousands, of hackers in Russia and Ukraine, most of whom are otherwise unaffiliated and have no connection to the Russian government.

Enlarge

 

"In other words, these rules can be a reflection of the fact the government has excellent information for attribution," Graham wrote. "Or, it could be a reflection that they've got only weak bits and pieces. It's impossible for us outsiders to tell."

 

"Both foolish and baseless"

 

Security consultant Jeffrey Carr also cast doubt on claims that attacks that hit the Democratic National Committee could only have originated from Russian-sponsored hackers because they relied on the same malware that also breached Germany's Bundestag and French TV network TV5Monde. Proponents of this theory, including the CrowdStrike researchers who analyzed the Democratic National Committee's hacked network, argue that the pattern strongly implicates Russia because no other actor would have the combined motivation and resources to hack the same targets. But as Carr pointed out, the full source code for the X-Agent implant that has long been associated with APT28 was independently obtained by researchers from antivirus provider Eset.

 

"If ESET could do it, so can others," Carr wrote. "It is both foolish and baseless to claim, as CrowdStrike does, that X-Agent is used solely by the Russian government when the source code is there for anyone to find and use at will."

>

 

 

[DocM]

WordFence post: https://www.wordfence.com/blog/2016/12/russia-malware-ip-hack/

 

http://dailycaller.com/2017/01/02/tech-company-casts-doubt-on-dhsfbi-russian-hacking-report/

 

Quote

 

Tech Company Casts Doubt On DHS/FBI Russian Hacking Report
 

Code identified by the Department of Homeland Security and Federal Bureau of Investigation as being used by Russian intelligence services is an outdated malware developed by Ukrainians that can be downloaded online, according to a blog post by the founder of WordFence.

 

WordFence is a plug-in designed to protect users of WordPress that has been downloaded over 1 million times. The report released last Thursday by the DHS and FBI, titled “Grizzly Steppe,” contains a PHP malware sample which WordFence employees analyzed.

 

“Our security analysts spend a lot of time analyzing PHP malware, because WordPress is powered by PHP,” the blog post written by WordFence founder and CEO Mark Maunder said in a post Friday. “We used the PHP malware indicator of compromise (IOC) that DHS provided to analyze the attack data that we aggregate to try to find the full malware sample.”

>

The tech CEO wrote: “The PHP malware sample they have provided appears to be P.A.S. version 3.1.0 which is commonly available and the website that claims to have authored it says they are Ukrainian. It is also several versions behind the most current version of P.A.S which is 4.1.1b. One might reasonably expect Russian intelligence operatives to develop their own tools or at least use current malicious tools from outside sources.”

 

In a series of FAQs published Monday, Maunder continued to criticize the DHS/FBI report. He said TechFence reviewed IP addresses that the DHS said was behind hacking efforts and found that they “belong to over 380 organizations and many of those organizations are well known website hosting providers from where many attacks originate. There is nothing in the IP data that points to Russia specifically.”

 

Much of the evidence tying Russia to hacking efforts has been criticized by cyber security experts. One link tying Russia to the leaking of Democratic National Committee emails is that documents leaked by hacker Guccifer 2.0’s were modified by a user named Felix Dzerzhinsky, the man who founded the Soviet secret police.

 

Cybersecurity expert Jeffrey Carr wrote in a blog post, “OK. Raise your hand if you think that a GRU or FSB officer would add Iron Felix’s name to the metadata of a stolen document before he released it to the world while pretending to be a Romanian hacker.”

 

 

[+Mirumir Subscriber¹]

That just confirms what I suspected earlier.

 

 

[Deviate_X]

On 31/12/2016 at 9:54 AM, coth said:

I don't remember France, Germany and UK imposing any sanction when US was hacking them.

The government of the USA has never been a dictatorship or a kleptocracy (...yet), and as such attempted to hack the general elections in France, Germany or the UK.

[FloatingFatMan]

1 hour ago, Deviate_X said:

The government of the USA has never been a dictatorship or a kleptocracy (...yet), and as such attempted to hack the general elections in France, Germany or the UK.

No. Instead it just spied on them and intercepted their leaders private phone calls.