Monitors still don't come in 4K @ 120Hz?

[Mando]

1 hour ago, Draconian Guppy said:

can someone explain like i'm 5, the benefit of 120hz over 60hz

Sure thing gupster....

 

think of it like blinking (for sake of argument,  a blink = 1 screen refresh, or screen draw if you will). If you blink at 60 times a second its a bit choppy (its light! its dark, its light! its dark etc) at 120 blinks a second the dark bits are shorter so you dont notice the "its dark!" as much.

 

thats about it tbh, some accept the placebo it gives you a competitive edge over others as being more responsive.......for some games like online FPS its a nice to have, but tbvh server I/O latency and your connections ping have a bigger effect on MP fps games than your monitors refresh rate.

 

[+Mirumir Subscriber¹]

From my initial research, it does look like the U.S./Canada folks are getting a hard time getting 4K @ 100Hz+ for a reasonable price.

 

Viewsonic XG2700-4K seems to be the most affordable 4K @120hz monitor priced @ 660 EUR where I live.

[Open Minded]

7 hours ago, Mirumir said:

Viewsonic XG2700-4K seems to be the most affordable 4K @120hz monitor priced @ 660 EUR where I live.

Just looked that up and it's showing a refresh rate of 60hz.  The description says-

Quote

With future-proof DisplayPort and HDMI 2.0 to support 4K UHD resolution at 60Hz...

 

Then in the specs it shows-

Quote

Video Signal

Frequency Horizontal

15~204kHz

Frequency Vertical

24~120Hz

So at 4k is it capped at 60hz but lower resolution 120hz?  This is straight from ViewSonic.  Can anyone else shed some light on this?

 

http://www.viewsonic.com/us/xg2700-4k.html

 

[xendrome]

On 2/22/2017 at 10:28 AM, Draconian Guppy said:

can someone explain like i'm 5, the benefit of 120hz over 60hz

Running on a 144hz G-Sync from a regular 60hz IPS monitor. I can't even describe it, there is 0 motion blur at all in games, you just have to see it for yourself. I can't go back.

[Draconian Guppy]

20 hours ago, xendrome said:

Running on a 144hz G-Sync from a regular 60hz IPS monitor. I can't even describe it, there is 0 motion blur at all in games, you just have to see it for yourself. I can't go back.

i'm confused, isn't motion blur something you want in games?

[xendrome]

1 minute ago, Draconian Guppy said:

i'm confused, isn't motion blur something you want in games?

No, not on the panel, in a FPS when you turn left to right the last thing you want is a blurry image as you try to aim at someone.

[Draconian Guppy]

Just now, xendrome said:

No, not on the panel, in a FPS when you turn left to right the last thing you want is a blurry image as you try to aim at someone.

aye my eye vision must suck cause i've never noticed motion blur on my 21 inch 6ms screen

[xendrome]

1 minute ago, Draconian Guppy said:

aye my eye vision must suck cause i've never noticed motion blur on my 21 inch 6ms screen

It's something you may never realize is happening until you actually see your same game on a G-Sync or FreeSync 144hz monitor.

[Draconian Guppy]

1 minute ago, xendrome said:

It's something you may never realize is happening until you actually see your same game on a G-Sync or FreeSync 144hz monitor.

ah, so I may be seeing it, but not knowing what that is?

 

Quick question.  How come this hasn't come into consoles and/or  TV sets? Seems something pretty big for it not to be readily available?

[Gmouser]

On 2/22/2017 at 7:22 AM, Gary7 said:

Yes that is the one I posted.

Yes, the one you posted is *not* a 4K monitor, which is what people are trying to communicate.  3440 x 1440 is ~4.95 million pixels.  3840x2160 (which is the standard for 4K) is ~8.29 million pixels.  We're comparing apples with oranges.  

 

I have a 3440x1440 monitor that will do 100hz, which can be done over the DisplayPort 1.2 interface.  3840x2160 at 120hz is on it's way, using DP 1.4, but currently there are no monitors that can process the data that quickly.

 

3440x1440 @100hz is approximately 495 million pixels refreshed per second.  3840x2160 @ 120hz is more like 995 million pixels per second.  It's literally double the bandwidth, hence DP 1.4.

 

A single GTX 1080 cannot keep the 3440x1440 running at 100 FPS consistently, btw.  Mine is G-SYNC, so there's no real loss when it drops into the 70s, in terms of fluid motion.

[Gmouser]

On 2/27/2017 at 5:19 AM, Draconian Guppy said:

ah, so I may be seeing it, but not knowing what that is?

 

Quick question.  How come this hasn't come into consoles and/or  TV sets? Seems something pretty big for it not to be readily available?

The scenario is a bit more complex:

 

1.  If VSYNC is enabled, you won't see screen tearing.  A 60 hz display (which is what most TVs can handle from a computer - don't be confused by the advertisements) under VSYNC will frequently drop down to 30 hz when gaming.  VSYNC requires something divisible by the main resolution so 60/30/20 in this case.  If it never drops below 30, you probably won't notice it much.  VSYNC works by not changing the image until it's complete.

2.  If VSYNC is not enabled, your monitor/tv will end up drawing part of the next frame in the middle of the screen, which causes the tearing effect.

 

I'm sure the consoles are set up to use VSYNC, to avoid odd visual irregularities.

 

GSYNC will likely never be available on a TV, because of the amount of work it takes to implement the hardware in the product.  Freesync is an open standard, which Nvidia claims isn't as good, but it accomplishes a similar effect.  Freesync uses the DP standard, and thus is cheaper to implement.

[Draconian Guppy]

1 hour ago, Gmouser said:

The scenario is a bit more complex:

 

1.  If VSYNC is enabled, you won't see screen tearing.  A 60 hz display (which is what most TVs can handle from a computer - don't be confused by the advertisements) under VSYNC will frequently drop down to 30 hz when gaming.  VSYNC requires something divisible by the main resolution so 60/30/20 in this case.  If it never drops below 30, you probably won't notice it much.  VSYNC works by not changing the image until it's complete.

2.  If VSYNC is not enabled, your monitor/tv will end up drawing part of the next frame in the middle of the screen, which causes the tearing effect.

 

I'm sure the consoles are set up to use VSYNC, to avoid odd visual irregularities.

 

GSYNC will likely never be available on a TV, because of the amount of work it takes to implement the hardware in the product.  Freesync is an open standard, which Nvidia claims isn't as good, but it accomplishes a similar effect.  Freesync uses the DP standard, and thus is cheaper to implement.

ah thanks for the awesomesauce explanation, also welcome to neowin!

[Jason S. Global Moderator]

thread is a bit old now, but still applicable.

 

as GMouser said above, i believe the real issue here is bandwidth. HDMI 2.0 can only push 4k @ 60Hz. We'll need to wait for HDMI 2.1 and DP 1.4 monitors to come on the market for refresh rates higher than that.

 

just this week, Linus Tech Tips showed off some awesome $1700 monitor that'll have DP 1.4 to push 4k at 144Hz. i probably have that wrong, but it was something like that...

[Mando]

19 hours ago, Jason S. said:

thread is a bit old now, but still applicable.

 

as GMouser said above, i believe the real issue here is bandwidth. HDMI 2.0 can only push 4k @ 60Hz. We'll need to wait for HDMI 2.1 and DP 1.4 monitors to come on the market for refresh rates higher than that.

 

just this week, Linus Tech Tips showed off some awesome $1700 monitor that'll have DP 1.4 to push 4k at 144Hz. i probably have that wrong, but it was something like that...

yep HDR 10 and 4K ultrawides GSYNC at 144mhz + are inbound q2 this year.

 

so much so Acer have dropped the RRP on the Predator Z35 from £999 to £599, granted its just 2560x1080 but a Gsync panel, 200mhz and 35" ultrawide im soooo tempted!

 

HDR will change the landscape but so will the panels prices, we will be looking at £1k to £1500 for 35 UWS in the incoming spec. to drive 4k at anything over 60fps youll be looking at a 1080 at least, im driving an EVGA 1080ti FE on my sig machine, so my options are open