SpaceX Super Heavy and Starship updates

[DocM]

Testing the tower catch arms before flight 5s catch attempt, starting off pretty basic with Booster 14.1 test article. 

 

 

[TrevorLahey]

Shorter video of the testing:

 

NASA selected SpaceX to develop and deliver the U.S. Deorbit Vehicle

 

Edited June 28, 2024 by bguy_1986

[TrevorLahey]

I just watched NSF's "This week in Spaceflight".  Maybe this was the wrong thread for the Deorbit vehicle.  I assumed it has something to do with Starship, but it may not.

[DocM]

On 28/06/2024 at 16:31, bguy_1986 said:

I just watched NSF's "This week in Spaceflight".  Maybe this was the wrong thread for the Deorbit vehicle.  I assumed it has something to do with Starship, but it may not.

Most likely a Dragon-derived vehicle, I'm betting on Dragon XL - the cargo supply ship for the Lunar Gateway. Much more propellant.

[TrevorLahey]

On 28/06/2024 at 17:34, DocM said:

Most likely a Dragon-derived vehicle, I'm betting on Dragon XL - the cargo supply ship for the Lunar Gateway. Much more propellant.

I had always assumed that all other Dragon variants were dead since Starship was coming along.

[DocM]

On 02/07/2024 at 09:03, bguy_1986 said:

I had always assumed that all other Dragon variants were dead since Starship was coming along.

 

Nope, too many commercial customers, and the Dragons can carry external cargo. One of Dragon XL's early cargos will be the Canadian robotic arm for Gateway. 

Once ISS is gone Dragon will probably serve the commercial stations, along with Dream Chaser 100 (cargo) & 200 (crew).

There may be another commercial crew vehicle from Blue Origin, but who knows how long it will take them.

And we can't count out the Indians, they are preparing to launch their Gaganyaan crew vehicle in the next couple of years. There is also a new cooperative agreement between the US and India on spaceflight, so they may end up being a commercial space station partner, replacing Russia.

Edited July 2, 2024 by DocM

[DocM]

Very interesting... Can't help but think the DoD is involved.

https://www.reuters.com/technology/space/spacex-talks-land-recover-starship-rocket-off-australias-coast-2024-07-29/

Exclusive: SpaceX in talks to land and recover Starship rocket off Australia's coast

WASHINGTON, July 29 (Reuters) - SpaceX is in talks with U.S. and Australian officials to land and recover one of its Starship rockets off Australia's coast, a possible first step toward a bigger presence for Elon Musk's company in the region as the two countries bolster security ties, according to three people familiar with the plans.

>

The plan would be to launch Starship from a SpaceX facility in Texas, land it in the sea off Australia's coast and recover it on Australian territory. Getting permission to do so would require loosening U.S. export controls on sophisticated space technologies bound for Australia, according to the sources, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

President Joe Biden's administration already has sought to ease similar restrictions within the AUKUS security alliance, opens new tab, a grouping of the United States, Australia and Britain aimed at countering China.

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>

[DocM]

New booster/starship catching video. They may attempt catching a booster in Flight 5

 

 

[TrevorLahey]

I don't like the fighting.  What SpaceX is doing is too important.

 

[DocM]

On 25/09/2024 at 09:04, bguy_1986 said:

I don't like the fighting.  What SpaceX is doing is too important.

 

 

 

There are a few things that play here, 

1) Whitaker is a lawyer, not an aerospace engineer. He's a political appointee. When he went to Congress it was for something else, and he got pulled into this hearing with no briefing. He winged it and said things that were not true, probably by mistake. Give him a bit of a MacGuffin. He does not deserve a second one after all the hell this one caused.

2) there are legal issues here, 

a) FAA proposed some new rules known as Part 450. This changed how licensing and permitting are done. Part of the problem is that many of these  rules have not been fully  circulated to the aerospace companies, but FAA is trying to apply them. This has ticked off a lot of people, not just SpaceX. Now FAA says they're going to go back and look at Part 450, which knowing them could take a year.

b) this summer the Supreme Court came down with the Loper Bright v. Raimondo decision, which overturned the Chevron doctrine.

The Chevron doctrine gave agencies the right to make rules which did not appear in the enabling legislation, essentially pulling rules out of their backside without Congressional authorization.

Loper Bright took away this power, and it is going to impact FAAs Part 450. Many of the things FAA thinks they can do, and are doing to SpaceX and others, won't pass muster in court. 

3) FAA has serious manpower issues, not enough people to do the work. This and the political confusion causes the delays.

Almost the entire space industry is up in arms over all this, as is Congress. Both parties, both the House and the Senate. It's one of the few things they can agree on because it has not only economic but strategic blowback.

Maybe we need to take it away from FAA and give it back to Commerce, or create a FSA - Federal Space Administration. Or, give it to the US Space Force.

[DocM]

Starship Flight 6: pre-flight testing

Some are estimating Flight 6 by the end of November, others the end of  December. This will be the last Block 1 Starship.

The first Block 2 is almost completed for Flight 7. Revamped front fins, located more to the leeward side to keep their hinges out of the re-entry plasma, many upgrades, slightly longer. 

Starship Block 3 will be much larger and have other major changes. 

 

 

 

 

[DocM]

 

[DocM]

The first Block 2 Starship. Stretched tanks, modified forward fins, many upgrades. Should fly flight 7.

[DocM]

OK, got time to flesh this out...

Better stock up on popcorn for 2025

SpaceFlightNow interview with NASA HLS* Deputy Program Manager Dr Kent  Chojnacki at Huntsville, AL

* Human Landing System

------

• LOTS of HLS work going on 

• SpaceX meets with astronauts monthly to work on the HLS design

• 27 milestones to be met

• There are HLS crew cabins, control cabin, sleeping quarters, elevator, and lab mockups at Starbase

• Starship design update in November, CDR (critical design review) in 2025, followed by the DCR (design certification review)

• propellant transfer campaign begins March 2025

• Target & Chaser propellant transfer test summer 2025. Chaser = tanker, Target = ship to be refuelled

• NASA plans a cadence ramp to bi-weekly at Starbase (2 pads), then pad LC-39A at Cape Canaveral FL comes online

• Targeting September 2026 for the crewed lunar landing; 6.5 day stay, with an uncrewed test landing before then

 

 

 

 

[DocM]

Starship Flight 6

NET Nov 18, 2024

https://spacenews.com/spacex-plans-next-starship-flight-for-mid-november/

 

[DocM]

More from Space News

https://spacenews.com/spacex-plans-next-starship-flight-for-mid-november/

 

• many upgrades, including TPS and the new fins & their leeward placement.

• Booster return #2

• in-space re-start (1 engine)

• higher AoA* during re-entry

• water landing (getting data before a Ship catch)

* Angle of Attack

[DocM]

Full text 

"Starship is now more than twice as powerful as the Saturn V Moon rocket and, in a year or so, it will be three times as powerful at 10,000 metric tons of thrust.

More importantly, it is designed to be fully reusable, burning ~80% liquid oxygen and ~20% liquid methane (very low cost propellant). 

This enables cost per ton to orbital space to be ~10,000% lower than Saturn V. 

Starship is the difference between being a multiplanet or single planet civilization. 

Building a new world on Mars is now possible."

[DocM]

Flight 6 moves to Tuesday at 1700 Eastern

Things are still in flux due to weather, so...

 

 

[DocM]

Flight Termination System installed 

Working towards of Wet Dress Rehearsal 

Still watching the weather

[DocM]

Launch photographer John Kraus  does great work 

[DocM]

One more Ship water landing, then a Ship catch

 

 

 

[TrevorLahey]

a peak inside:

 

[FloatingFatMan]

What a great mission Flight 7 was.  I especially enjoyed the flawless re-entry!

 

 

[Astra.Xtreme]

On 17/01/2025 at 10:21, FloatingFatMan said:

What a great mission Flight 7 was.  I especially enjoyed the flawless re-entry!

 

Believe it or not, this is what they want to happen.  With rapid R&D, you want it to blow up occasionally and return the data.  SpaceX immediately knew what caused the issue and will improve the design moving forward.  Falcon 9 started that way and now they're launching and landing those every 2 days.
It's a big difference than Blue Origin who spent 10 years developing New Glenn in a simulated environment and only launched when the rocket was basically "final".  The orbital stage worked, but if they can't get the first stage to land, a redesign is going to set them back years.

[FloatingFatMan]

On 17/01/2025 at 20:17, Astra.Xtreme said:

Believe it or not, this is what they want to happen.  With rapid R&D, you want it to blow up occasionally and return the data.  SpaceX immediately knew what caused the issue and will improve the design moving forward.  Falcon 9 started that way and now they're launching and landing those every 2 days.

You DO realise that it's YOUR MONEY that's funding Musk, right?  That 300 million dollar explosion? That was aaaaalllll yours...    Take away the government funding and subsidies, and SpaceX hasn't made a single red cent in profit.

 

On 17/01/2025 at 20:17, Astra.Xtreme said:

It's a big difference than Blue Origin who spent 10 years developing New Glenn in a simulated environment and only launched when the rocket was basically "final".  The orbital stage worked, but if they can't get the first stage to land, a redesign is going to set them back years.

And guess what? They don't go around blowing (literally) 300 million bucks every time they launch something, unlike Musk, who can't even read a NASA engineering manual...