patseguin Global Moderator Posted November 27, 2022 Global Moderator Share Posted November 27, 2022 Just completed my Raptor Lake build with an Asus Strix z790-E motherboard and 4 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR5 modules. I only had 2 of them when I finished, so I put 1 in bank A1 and 1 in bank B1, I got to BIOS and it reported 32GB. I completed my settings including XMP and rebooted and got a black screen and no post. After thinking it was other things, I finally moved the 2nd stick to A2 and it booted fine. So, figured OK I just have to group them by bank. Well, by 2nd 2 sticks came so I put them in for a total of 64GB. I booted up into BIOS where it showed 64GB. I reset to BIOS defaults and then set XMP and mother settings again and rebooted. Black screen and no posting. Took out the 2 sticks in B1 and B2 and it booted right up. Any thoughts on what the issue could be? Any known issues maybe with the new 790 chipset addressing two of the memory banks? I googled this and found a post where someone has the same issue but the exact opposite. They can't boot with any RAM in the A slots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinetheo Posted November 27, 2022 Share Posted November 27, 2022 When I upgraded from Haswell 4770 to a 9900K I found out first hand Intel removed quad channel memory support so they can upsell their XEON workstation and HEDT $2000 cpu lines. Grr. 4 ram dims put strain on the memory controller as I found out I have to slightly underclock my ram and over volt the VCIO so it can stabilize on my system. I won't be making that mistake again. AMD chipsets have lots of problems with ddr 5 as well. What I would do is overvolt the VCIO slightly and take out XMP. Anything beyond 3200 mhz is an overclock according to Intel even if the ram is rated as more capable. (my info could be outdated). If it is very high frequency dram it is possible the circuitry on the board has too much noise for your CPU to read it so increasing the System agent and VCIO voltage will make it easier to read Anyway I was able to significantly increase my 9900K stability after a modest overvolt with these 2 bios settings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patseguin Global Moderator Posted November 27, 2022 Author Global Moderator Share Posted November 27, 2022 On 27/11/2022 at 15:16, sinetheo said: When I upgraded from Haswell 4770 to a 9900K I found out first hand Intel removed quad channel memory support so they can upsell their XEON workstation and HEDT $2000 cpu lines. Grr. 4 ram dims put strain on the memory controller as I found out I have to slightly underclock my ram and over volt the VCIO so it can stabilize on my system. I won't be making that mistake again. AMD chipsets have lots of problems with ddr 5 as well. What I would do is overvolt the VCIO slightly and take out XMP. Anything beyond 3200 mhz is an overclock according to Intel even if the ram is rated as more capable. (my info could be outdated). If it is very high frequency dram it is possible the circuitry on the board has too much noise for your CPU to read it so increasing the System agent and VCIO voltage will make it easier to read Anyway I was able to significantly increase my 9900K stability after a modest overvolt with these 2 bios settings So, you think the system just doesn't support all 4 banks? I'm not sure if that's the case. Why even have 4 slots? Plus that wouldn't explain that other guy having the A banks not work and me the B, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwd999 Posted November 28, 2022 Share Posted November 28, 2022 Well, for starters, page 1-5 of the manual makes it clear with pictures that when you have 2 modules they go in slots A2 and B2 so you apparently got that wrong right from the start. Its also concerning that all 4 sticks were not packaged together as a guaranteed compatible set so that may be causing you problems. I would suggest placing one set which you know are exactly the same in slots A2 and B2, reinstall windows and if successful add the other set in A1 and B1. It might also be best to wait until everything is fully functional before messing around with XMP and any other motherboard settings. xrobwx71, sinetheo and Astral 3 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
binaryzero Posted November 28, 2022 Share Posted November 28, 2022 Sounds like RTFM fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goretsky Supervisor Posted November 28, 2022 Supervisor Share Posted November 28, 2022 Hello, Just to confirm, the four 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR5 DIMMs have identical model numbers, and you are not mixing modules with different speeds, densities, timings or types of dies? If they are all identical, then I would suggest clearing CMOS and trying to bring up all four DIMMs at their initial JEDEC-rated speeds. If that works, then try running a tool like CPUID which can display the memory timings from each module, and verify all modules have the same values. Regards, Aryeh Goretsky zeke009, xrobwx71 and Tantawi 3 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulphy Posted November 28, 2022 Share Posted November 28, 2022 I too posted a similar issue, I have a Asus Rog Maximus Z690 Extreme, with Kingston Beast Fury DDR5 ram (4x16GB modules). .... Enabling XMP is no good! I had all sorts of issues, including no bios post on a previous bios version. A newer (2103) bios was released a couple of weeks ago, and i was able to boot to windows, but the system was incredibly unstable! Disabled XMP and everything is running fine again! There are tons of posts in the Asus forums regarding issues with various boards and XMP! For now, I have been told to wait on upcoming bios versions to be released, and keep an eye out for anything related to quad channel XMP! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ixion Posted November 28, 2022 Share Posted November 28, 2022 Memory speeds have always been slower running with all 4 slots populated and that has never been more true than for DDR5 due to the way each stick is the equivalent of "Dual channel" DDR4. As others have suggested I would populate the first two slots and start at JEDEC speeds, then populate the other two assuming it's stable before even considering turning XMP on. hellowalkman 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patseguin Global Moderator Posted November 28, 2022 Author Global Moderator Share Posted November 28, 2022 On 27/11/2022 at 19:28, dwd999 said: Well, for starters, page 1-5 of the manual makes it clear with pictures that when you have 2 modules they go in slots A2 and B2 so you apparently got that wrong right from the start. Its also concerning that all 4 sticks were not packaged together as a guaranteed compatible set so that may be causing you problems. I would suggest placing one set which you know are exactly the same in slots A2 and B2, reinstall windows and if successful add the other set in A1 and B1. It might also be best to wait until everything is fully functional before messing around with XMP and any other motherboard settings. Well, that certainly is interesting. You looked up the manual of my motherboard? Because I looked at mine several times and it didn't make sense. It seemed to indicate that you could use either A1+A2 or A1+B1. My system has been working fine for 2 days so far with the 2 modules in A1 and A2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patseguin Global Moderator Posted November 28, 2022 Author Global Moderator Share Posted November 28, 2022 On 27/11/2022 at 20:47, goretsky said: Hello, Just to confirm, the four 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR5 DIMMs have identical model numbers, and you are not mixing modules with different speeds, densities, timings or types of dies? If they are all identical, then I would suggest clearing CMOS and trying to bring up all four DIMMs at their initial JEDEC-rated speeds. If that works, then try running a tool like CPUID which can display the memory timings from each module, and verify all modules have the same values. Regards, Aryeh Goretsky Yes. I went back to NewEgg and just duplicated my order of RAM. Are 4 are Corsair Vengeance DDR5. Asus suggested resetting CMOS too which I thought was stupid. but now I'll try it. I thought XMP is what configured the rated speeds for the modules. goretsky 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patseguin Global Moderator Posted November 28, 2022 Author Global Moderator Share Posted November 28, 2022 On 28/11/2022 at 03:43, Ixion said: Memory speeds have always been slower running with all 4 slots populated and that has never been more true than for DDR5 due to the way each stick is the equivalent of "Dual channel" DDR4. As others have suggested I would populate the first two slots and start at JEDEC speeds, then populate the other two assuming it's stable before even considering turning XMP on. What I was planning on doing is if I can't get the 2 B slots to work is to not even worry about it. If I ever want 64GB or more, I can just replace the 2 sticks in A. DOes that sound reasonable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ixion Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 That will certainly give you full speed/performance so sounds sensible. DDR5 is still quite new and motherboard/memory module compatability will likely only get better with time. You may even find your kits work as you'd have expected in a few BIOS revisions time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim K Global Moderator Posted November 30, 2022 Global Moderator Share Posted November 30, 2022 On 28/11/2022 at 06:28, patseguin said: Well, that certainly is interesting. You looked up the manual of my motherboard? Because I looked at mine several times and it didn't make sense. It seemed to indicate that you could use either A1+A2 or A1+B1. My system has been working fine for 2 days so far with the 2 modules in A1 and A2. Page 1-5 recommends populating A2 and B2 first. Pretty much the standard across all vendor boards. Wouldn't doubt with you running A1 and A2 you'll see the mode being Dual Channel (vs Quad). Does it matter in real world performance ... doubt it. Anyway, seems to be a real hit or miss with XMP with DDR5. Lots of reddit posts and manufacture threads regarding stability issues with XMP and DDR5. Mine just worked thankfully (Gigabyte Z690 w/ G.Skill modules on QVL list). Recommend you populate the banks according to the manual. Update the BIOS ... try XMP again. If fails, you may be able to adjust the timings/voltage manually to come close to (or achieve) what XMP would have given you, or wait for another BIOS update which could address stability, or try another set of modules on the QVL list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim K Global Moderator Posted December 18, 2022 Global Moderator Share Posted December 18, 2022 Did you ever get it working Pat? I had my own little adventure. I bought an additional 2 sticks of matching memory to up my total system memory to 64GB (Gigabyte Z690 w/ i7-13700K). With all four banks populated I couldn't get XMP 6000 to work ... most I was able to achieve was around 5400 manually after trying for a few days. With just 2 banks filled XMP was stable with either set...but wasn't with all 4. I ended up just returning the recently purchased memory. Honestly, 64GB is overkill for my needs and I'd rather have the memory running at its XMP rated speed than not (even if I couldn't tell the difference). sinetheo 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinetheo Posted December 18, 2022 Share Posted December 18, 2022 FYI AMD owners are also complaining about 670e chipset with ddr 5 not working or bring really slow to even boot and forget more than 2 dimms. I think the laws of physics are coming to play more than a chipset bug goretsky 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindovermaster Moderator Posted December 18, 2022 Moderator Share Posted December 18, 2022 (edited) I've been using 4 slots up to Intel's 6-gen. (DDR3, I think..) Since then I haven't been. Good to know.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DDG3595 Subscriber² Posted December 19, 2022 Subscriber² Share Posted December 19, 2022 It sounds as though the voltage for the memory is not increased when XMP is enabled. I experienced the same thing when I upgraded the firmware for both of my motherboards (Z270). Since then, I've settled for running my PCs without it. xrobwx71 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejohnnyq Posted December 19, 2022 Share Posted December 19, 2022 I built a new system with i9 13 gen with GB Aorus Elite AX z790, I tried several different ram sets, and different slots. It takes 15+ minutes to boot to bios, then 10 minutes to boot to OS. GB put out a tech memo that said it is not unusable to do this the first time, since the system needs to 'map out' the memory, and some systems may do this all the time. I upgraded the bios, and few other things but no changes to my config. I just purchased memory from the approved list and it has made no difference to boot times. sinetheo 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nekrosoft13 Posted December 19, 2022 Share Posted December 19, 2022 (edited) On 28/11/2022 at 06:30, patseguin said: Yes. I went back to NewEgg and just duplicated my order of RAM. Are 4 are Corsair Vengeance DDR5. Asus suggested resetting CMOS too which I thought was stupid. but now I'll try it. I thought XMP is what configured the rated speeds for the modules. that doesn't guarantee they are they same.. many ram manufactures will change design of ram/layout of ram even with same part number. Corsair has stickers on the ram, where they mention rev or version. what does it say on every stick of ram. On 27/11/2022 at 14:16, sinetheo said: When I upgraded from Haswell 4770 to a 9900K I found out first hand Intel removed quad channel memory support so they can upsell their XEON workstation and HEDT $2000 cpu lines. Grr. 4 ram dims put strain on the memory controller as I found out I have to slightly underclock my ram and over volt the VCIO so it can stabilize on my system. I won't be making that mistake again. Haswell i7-4770 was never quad channel only intel X series chipset and some xeons are quad. for example Haswell-E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinetheo Posted December 24, 2022 Share Posted December 24, 2022 On 19/12/2022 at 08:51, thejohnnyq said: I built a new system with i9 13 gen with GB Aorus Elite AX z790, I tried several different ram sets, and different slots. It takes 15+ minutes to boot to bios, then 10 minutes to boot to OS. GB put out a tech memo that said it is not unusable to do this the first time, since the system needs to 'map out' the memory, and some systems may do this all the time. I upgraded the bios, and few other things but no changes to my config. I just purchased memory from the approved list and it has made no difference to boot times. Interesting as I turned down an AMD motherboard for people complaining about the same issues. AMD is the memory gets trained each boot up which is up to 3 to 5 minutes. Not a one time thing like it is supposed to. I am going to stick with my DDR 4 9900K for awhile longer until this mess is sorted out. I wonder if physics is getting in the way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKAngel Posted December 24, 2022 Share Posted December 24, 2022 On 24/12/2022 at 18:31, sinetheo said: Interesting as I turned down an AMD motherboard for people complaining about the same issues. AMD is the memory gets trained each boot up which is up to 3 to 5 minutes. Not a one time thing like it is supposed to. I am going to stick with my DDR 4 9900K for awhile longer until this mess is sorted out. I wonder if physics is getting in the way? i have never once in my life heard of memory getting trained at boot, making the system take minutes to boot, that just sounds like ###### ive built that many pc's over my lifetime and not once come across that at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corrosive23 Posted December 24, 2022 Share Posted December 24, 2022 On 24/12/2022 at 06:18, DKAngel said: i have never once in my life heard of memory getting trained at boot, making the system take minutes to boot, that just sounds like ###### ive built that many pc's over my lifetime and not once come across that at all That's new with ddr5. https://www.crucial.com/support/articles-faq-memory/ddr5-memory-training Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKAngel Posted December 24, 2022 Share Posted December 24, 2022 On 24/12/2022 at 21:23, corrosive23 said: That's new with ddr5. https://www.crucial.com/support/articles-faq-memory/ddr5-memory-training yeah a 1 time thing, not an all the time thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corrosive23 Posted December 24, 2022 Share Posted December 24, 2022 On 24/12/2022 at 06:40, DKAngel said: yeah a 1 time thing, not an all the time thing Yeah changes in UEFI to memory require yet another training session. People who tweak their systems were up in arms when it started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinetheo Posted December 25, 2022 Share Posted December 25, 2022 On 24/12/2022 at 07:40, DKAngel said: yeah a 1 time thing, not an all the time thing The problem is it is every boot time thing on both platforms with 5 minute boot up times On 24/12/2022 at 08:33, corrosive23 said: Yeah changes in UEFI to memory require yet another training session. People who tweak their systems were up in arms when it started. My DDR 4 z390 takes about 15 seconds after I make a change to verify in comparison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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