A newbies journey into Linux...

[Taliseian]

Greetings all,

Been wanting to try out Linux for a while now, especially with all the changes to Windows that have and will happen.   Right now, as a way to tip my toes in and kick the tires, I've installed Virtual Box (that can change as a better idea comes up) so I can try out Linux without giving up Windows for now -- gaming (Steam and standalone mostly), internet, and eventually I may expand into Twitch Streaming and/or YouTube content creation.  

My eventual plan is to start with Linux on the Windows Desktop and as I get more comfortable to then just reformat and not look back.

So, to start I need to find a Linux Distro to work on.........and that's where the first headache starts. 😁   There are so many distros with both good and bad points that I'm not sure where to begin.

Can I get a couple of good recommendations as to where (and how if Virtual Box is a bad idea) to start this journey?

 

[Mindovermaster Moderator]

Welcome to the free world, my friend!  

Virtualbox is a great way to get used to it. Especially knowing how to install it  

If you are brand new to Linux, I'd suggest to you Linux Mint or Zorin. They are VERY similar to Windows. As in looks.

It's a good way to get familar to it before you jump in the pool  

I moved to Debian after the Windows 8 preview. I haven't looked back. Debian might be a little out of your range, but once you understand it a bit better, maybe you'll like it more.

I use Windows, but it's not my daily driver.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

The topic of Linux is like a minefield which you want to explode. That's the mistake you won't ever make again, and will fix in your future. So, the mine you step on and nuke your system. Don't worry. That's normal. Part of learning. I can't sway you in ANY direction of linux. Nobody can. Try one, then see what happens (flavors). Myself, personally, I like the Debian flavors, because, well, pihole. ETC. Whatever your end purpose is, make sure the flavor you choose can accomplish that goal, then heck, you can fork your own kernel/build. Yes, it's a little complicated, but that's the wonder of open source! If you don't like what someone else makes, make your own! You'll see as you get aged into the Linux system.

[Mindovermaster Moderator]

On 24/12/2023 at 15:15, Obi-Wan Kenobi said:

The topic of Linux is like a minefield which you want to explode. That's the mistake you won't ever make again, and will fix in your future. So, the mine you step on and nuke your system. Don't worry. That's normal. Part of learning. I can't sway you in ANY direction of linux. Nobody can. Try one, then see what happens (flavors). Myself, personally, I like the Debian flavors, because, well, pihole. ETC. Whatever your end purpose is, make sure the flavor you choose can accomplish that goal, then heck, you can fork your own kernel/build. Yes, it's a little complicated, but that's the wonder of open source! If you don't like what someone else makes, make your own! You'll see as you get aged into the Linux system.

Well said Obi-Wan! I used to break Debian all the time as a newb.. 

[+Matthew S. Subscriber²]

On 24/12/2023 at 16:32, Mindovermaster said:

Well said Obi-Wan! I used to break Debian all the time as a newb.. 

The only distro I've managed to break was the OG Fedora Core distro's lol oh and FreeBSD back in the day, but thats BSD not Linux  

Been using CentOS and Ubuntu ever since for my servers, actually fully Ubuntu now that CentOS Stream replaced CentOS...

Another kind of way you can dip your toes into Linux land is through WSL and WSLg.

 

 

[Arceles]

If you have an AMD system or a Intel system go Debian, plenty of information, easy to setup and once you learn what is going on, every other distro based on it is easy (if you ever want to go out of Debian... but it has not been my case since I Installed it.)

[Sulphy]

Personally, i used to use Ubuntu ... whenever i would consider making a change to Linux... found it to be a good learning point, till i discovered Mint... found it way nicer (UI wise).. and pretty simple to use! My opinion, but faster than Ubuntu...

Reading the comments above, i am definately going to give Zorin a go, it looks fatastic... i like a nice UI... My daily driver is still Win11, and something catastrophic would have to happen to ditch Msft OS completely, unfortunately... to each his own

Now, if only they could get Pinn working for the RPi 5...  

[Nick H. Supervisor]

You might want to take a look here or the older outdated thread here to get an idea of who uses what.

As I mentioned in the recent poll, I did use Linux Mint daily and never had any reason to complain about it. It works out of the box, it isn't resource intensive, and as far as transitioning from Windows to Linux goes I'm not sure that it could be much smoother.

Before Mint I had been using Ubuntu. Again, nothing wrong with it although you need to check some settings since they took a leaf out of Microsoft and Apple's book and started asking about collecting data. It's not a big deal, but if you're concerned about those kind of things it's good to know.

And right now I'm using Kubuntu. It is a fork of Ubuntu that uses KDE Plasma so that things look prettier. It is a bit more resource intensive because of that, but I figure if I'm using a system daily I want it to look pleasant. That's not to say that other distributions are ugly, but Kubuntu has allowed me to change the system's appearance incredibly easily while offering so many options for how I want it to look.

Regarding how to proceed into Linux, I would suggest that instead of creating a VM you should partition your hard drive so that you can dual boot. I suggest this for a few reasons:

• You will still have your previous OS to fall back to if you need it.
• It won't be as resource-intensive as going through a VM.
• You can challenge yourself. "How long can I use Linux before I have to go into Windows for something?"

That last one is both fun but important in my mind. If you're running it in a VM you won't necessarily force yourself to learn and embrace how to work with Linux. Any time that you hit a roadblock you'll probably find it easier to just click out of the VM and do it in Windows instead. Dual booting is how I really started using Linux daily, to the point where now it is more of a hassle to log into my Windows drive - it's generally so long in between my Windows sessions that the computer gets bogged down with all the updates it needs to perform.

But however you decide to proceed, and whatever distribution you decide to use, welcome to Linux! And don't hesitate to let us know if you need a hand with something.

[Mindovermaster Moderator]

Also, from above, you can use LMDE.. Mint using Debian distro.  

[riceBox]

Along the way, you'll also encounter the nuances of X11, Wayland, and NVIDIA drivers.

[Good Bot, Bad Bot]

Running Linux in a VirtualBox is a great way to start. Please don't dual boot with Windows. It's a pain and you will end up never booting into Linux. Linux Mint or better better yet Ubuntu are great starting distros. KDE Plasma or Cinnamon (if really want to use GNOME) will be familiar DEs to you as a Windows user. You don't need to be a terminal jockey or learn all the low level stuff if not interested so ignore any advise along those lines. You will use the command line at some point but it's not a big deal.

May I suggest investing $100 if can do it and getting a used box to run Linux on? Running it on bare metal is the best way to go and can install it on your main box when ready.

[Mindovermaster Moderator]

On 25/12/2023 at 10:05, riceBox said:

Along the way, you'll also encounter the nuances of X11, Wayland, and NVIDIA drivers.

Don't scare him! But X11 and Wayland have gotten a lot better over the years.

As for NVIDIA, yeah, I heard many horror stories about getting it work right. Why we usually stick with AMD graphics. AMD is open source to it's Linux drivers. NVIDIA isn't. It is written into the kernel. With AMD, you never have to worry about drivers.

[Mindovermaster Moderator]

On 25/12/2023 at 11:06, Good Bot, Bad Bot said:

Running Linux in a VirtualBox is a great way to start. Please don't dual boot with Windows. It's a pain and you will end up never booting into Linux. Linux Mint or better better yet Ubuntu are great starting distros. KDE Plasma or Cinnamon (if really want to use GNOME) will be familiar DEs to you as a Windows user. You don't need to be a terminal jockey or learn all the low level stuff if not interested so ignore any advise along those lines. You will use the command line at some point but it's not a big deal.

May I suggest investing $100 if can do it and getting a used box to run Linux on? Running it on bare metal is the best way to go and can install it on your main box when ready.

Yeah, KDE has a LOT of GUI settings. You can do almost everything with it.

Get a cheap mini-PC. Doesn't have to be powerful. Linux can run on about anything. Within the last 10 years to run the latest distros.

[+Elі Subscriber²]

For great community support try Ubuntu or one of its derivatives. You'll always find answers to most issues you experience by doing simple Google searches. Ubuntu is also extremely easy to customize and make look stunning using Gnome extensions and such.

When picking a Distro as a newbie it is important to decide if you want one that uses Gnome or KDE. In my opinion Gnome is way more user friendly and simple to use 

In terms of beauty, easy ways to customize etc, I would pick either Ubuntu, ZorinOS or ElementaryOS. 

The most beautiful Distro in my opinion is Deepin by far, however it has compatibility issues occasionally and sometimes you need to be hunting for which version of an app will work with it.

There's a version of Ubuntu called UbuntuDDE, which uses the Deepin Desktop Environment (DDE) So you get kind of the best of both worlds, however it is in early development and also has issues 

Cheers 

[Brandon H Supervisor]

I'll reconfirm what a lot of others are saying. For someone just getting in to linux then I'd recommend the following distros to play with. And especially since you're just playing in VirtualBox right now, don't be afraid to breaks things  it's actually a good way to learn in the long run.

Distros:

• ElementaryOS (is MacOS themed)
• Fedora
• Manjaro (easy to use Arch based distro if you want to try a rolling release system)
• Mint (uses Cinnamon, which is a fork of gnome made to look similar to Windows)
• Ubuntu
• ZorinOS (theme similar to windows)

[Good Bot, Bad Bot]

On 27/12/2023 at 09:34, Elі said:

For great community support try Ubuntu or one of its derivatives. You'll always find answers to most issues you experience by doing simple Google searches. Ubuntu is also extremely easy to customize and make look stunning using Gnome extensions and such.

When picking a Distro as a newbie it is important to decide if you want one that uses Gnome or KDE. In my opinion Gnome is way more user friendly and simple to use 

In terms of beauty, easy ways to customize etc, I would pick either Ubuntu, ZorinOS or ElementaryOS. 

The most beautiful Distro in my opinion is Deepin by far, however it has compatibility issues occasionally and sometimes you need to be hunting for which version of an app will work with it.

There's a version of Ubuntu called UbuntuDDE, which uses the Deepin Desktop Environment (DDE) So you get kind of the best of both worlds, however it is in early development and also has issues 

Cheers 

I would question recommending GNOME with it's different layout and workflow for a person that is used to Windows when KDE Plasma is very similar to Windows. What's not user friendly about it? One having to install 3rd-party extensions (that may not be compatible with the next version GNOME) for standard desktop functionality (ex. clipboard) is not user friendly IMO.

I am sure Deepin is "beautiful" but the OP should be aware it's a Chinese created distro.

[+Elі Subscriber²]

On 27/12/2023 at 10:20, Good Bot, Bad Bot said:

I would question recommending GNOME with it's different layout and workflow for a person that is used to Windows when KDE Plasma is very similar to Windows. What's not user friendly about it? One having to install 3rd-party extensions (that may not be compatible with the next version GNOME) for standard desktop functionality (ex. clipboard) is not user friendly IMO.

I am sure Deepin is "beautiful" but the OP should be aware it's a Chinese created distro.

Since when "Different" means not user friendly? KDE has so many options and configuration features (many of which may go wrong) that I wouldn't call it user friendly, but confusing IMHO. 

Regarding Deepin being Chinese, again did you miss the part that Linux is open source and has and can be audited anytime? 

Hey, you should stop using your phone, watch out if it was manufactured in China.

Did you also miss the part where I suggested UbuntuDDE or plain Ubuntu? 

I believe your take on the topic is more based on personal taste and politics than objective advice to a newbie.

Gnome is extremely easy to use and it IS user friendly and simple to use. So yeah, I stand by my assertions.

[Arceles]

I think for a first time user in linux, the environment does not matter.

Those who accept to move from a terrible OS like windows 11 are somehow embracing change.

I myself started using gnome, and to be honest, I found everything I needed to do there no problems. It is quite friendly as somehow mimics the GUI of a phone.

Nowadays I'm using KDE, just because I like the tons of customization options that it offers, but it is not exactly friendly and even go as far as to call it convoluted, indeed it is the windows experience but it has nice options to tune it nicely.

[Good Bot, Bad Bot]

On 27/12/2023 at 13:12, Elі said:

Since when "Different" means not user friendly? KDE has so many options and configuration features (many of which may go wrong) that I wouldn't call it user friendly, but confusing IMHO. 

Regarding Deepin being Chinese, again did you miss the part that Linux is open source and has and can be audited anytime? 

Hey, you should stop using your phone, watch out if it was manufactured in China.

Did you also miss the part where I suggested UbuntuDDE or plain Ubuntu? 

I believe your take on the topic is more based on personal taste and politics than objective advice to a newbie.

Gnome is extremely easy to use and it IS user friendly and simple to use. So yeah, I stand by my assertions.

Ummmm Did you read my comment before replying?

I didn't say GNOME wasn't user friendly because it was "different". LOL The reasoning I gave was KDE Plamsa would be more familiar to a Windows user. I am not sure who would argue installing extensions (an actual point I made you totally ignored) is more user friendly than changing some settings. I have to change way more setting on a Windows install than with KDE. Actually I have to do more post-install configuration with GNOME (change some settings, install GNOME Tweaks to change more settings, and then install a couple of extensions) while with KDE I just change some settings. Of course no settings NEED to be changed at all with KDE as it works just fine out of the box.

I have no issue with hardware manufactured in China. One should only have an issue if the company putting out said hardware is a Chinese company as it's well known the Chinese government can make any Chinese company hand over any user data. There has been many stories of Chinese phone manufactures "accidentally" sending user data to Chinese servers. The same thing applies to software. It's fine if you trust it but I felt the OP should be aware themselves and then make their own decision.

Did you miss open source code can be audited but often is NOT? Have you audited Deepin yourself? Know someone you trust that has audited it or at the very least anyone you are familiar with that is a developer for it?

Yes, I seen you suggested UbuntuDDE which by your own words is in "early development and also has issues". Yep, that is exactly what should be recommended to a new user of Linux.

My recommendations were my personal taste? Funny you mention that as that is actually a pet peeve of mine and what I felt you were doing in your post. Again, I suggested a DE that is similar to Windows which is the only OS we know the OP has used. You suggested a DE that would not be as familiar to a Windows user and has a different workflow. Fun fact: I am currently at the moment using GNOME on my laptop Linux install.

[Mindovermaster Moderator]

Please don't fight, gents..

Help the OP, don't attack other people.

It's a wide world out there. A lot of people are going to say what's on  their mind.

[ThaCrip]

In short... if you are not sure where to start, it's hard to go wrong with Linux Mint, assuming your hardware is supported.

 

I see some say "Mint is a great starting distro" etc. but ill say it's just a great distro period for stuff to 'just work' (at least as best as reasonably can be expected on Linux), assuming your hardware is supported. plus it never hurts it's general interface is familiar enough as it tends to stay largely the same as time passes which I see as a good thing as I am not one of those people who want change purely for the sake of change. because once the core function of the interface reaches a certain standard, which it has a long time ago now, you just don't mess with it. small tweaks here and there are okay, but nothing major. in this regard Mint is great.

I don't know any precise statistics besides they claim Linux desktop in general only makes up about 3% of all desktop computers. but I have a hunch Mint is one of the most used Linux distro's as it's been around longer than a lot of them and seems to have a rep of being one of the more reliable ones for stuff to just work. it's basically a better version of Ubuntu as I figure while there is technically no standard in Linux desktop, I figure the closest is probably a Debian/Ubuntu base and Mint is based on Ubuntu, which makes it a good choice that's difficult to make a wrong choice here since just about anything Linux related tends to support Debian/Ubuntu.

the Mint 21.x series comes with a 5.15 kernel which that kernel was released Oct/Nov 2021. so as long as your general hardware is pretty much older than that, you should be good with no further action needed. you can install 6.5 kernel (released Aug 2023) if needed though. but the general word on the Mint team is unless you have problems with the default kernel, don't change it. Mint 22.0 will be out about mid-2024.

it also makes updates (like program updates/security updates) easy to through it's 'Update Manager' which is that shield looking icon in the task bar near time area. while updates are largely okay (as stuff is not likely to break in general but it could once in a while), it includes 'Timeshift' so if a update breaks anything you can revert with that. NOTE: personally I don't use 'Timeshift' as I just make a occasional image with Clonezilla (from from a bootable USB stick and I use it to image my boot drive to another hard drive into a image file), especially if I am doing something where the risk of something breaking is higher than usual.

also, when it comes to GPU drivers... the gist of it is for NVIDIA you need to install a proper proprietary driver though Mint's 'Driver Manager' (that's critical for gaming performance). but with AMD, the GPU driver is in the Linux kernel. so even if your CPU is good enough to work with say 5.15 kernel, you may need to update it if you got a fairly new AMD GPU.

but I guess in the Linux world, I would say off the top of my head... you got some that are a bit more bleeding edge with the latest-and-greatest stuff, but things are probably more likely to act up. then you got ones on the other end, which are a bit more conservative, where it runs older kernels/software but is extra stable. in this regard... I feel Mint offers a solid balance and one of the better things of Mint is it's supported for nearly 5 years (Mint 21.x for example was released mid-2022 and is supported until April 2027) on each major release as it seems many Linux distro's are only supported roughly 2-3 years max as it's nice to have the option to stick with a certain release for a longer period of time if needed.

anyways... even on the semi-rare occasion I need Windows I set it up in a virtual machine on Mint. I use QEMU/KVM as that feels lighter than the more popular VirtualBox. it even works with Win11 installed in the VM using official ISO (even though my CPU is only i5-3550 (2012 CPU technology). but I do see it emulates TPM 2.0) and I "activated" it to as the activation seems to be tied to the UUID as when that UUID changes, like if you clean install it in a new VM, the activation does not hold up. but once you restore that same UUID, the activation is already activated after a clean install with no further interaction from you required.

another thing... from what I can tell the Mint support (i.e. https://forums.linuxmint.com/ ) is generally one of the more friendly/welcoming Linux communities (which I suspect is at least partially because they don't have the 'snob-like mentality' that some Linux distros may have as Mint is geared more towards the common user as best as can be reasonably expected). I have ran into an occasional person who's so-so (maybe a couple or so off the top of my head, which both were in the IRC chat), but largely they are good as some are quite friendly (for example, the moderator over there under the name 'SMG'). even conservatively, most are probably neutral-to-positive than neutral-to-negative.

just some thoughts. but good luck on whatever Linux version you settle on (note: I have not played with many besides Mint, but I have no desire to leave Mint for the foreseeable future as it's what I have been using since I changed over to Linux in Jan 2019, so nearly 5 years ago now. so I have used Mint 19.x(support ended April 2023), 20.x (support ends April 2025) and currently I am on 21.x(support ends April 2027))

one last thing... Mint has a 'LMDE' (Linux Mint Debian Edition) but it's primarily a backup to their main version in case the team ever has to dump Ubuntu for whatever reason they have this as a fall back. generally speaking... most people should stick to the main Mint. but this is a option if you want to try it. but it only comes in 'Cinnamon' where as main version has Cinnamon/Xfce/MATE.

p.s. while 'Cinnamon' is Mint's flagship (basically their main version) I suggest Xfce as I am confident that's better across a wider range of hardware. I like Cinnamon/Xfce (I never cared for MATE), but what ultimately pushed me towards Xfce over Cinnamon is with Cinnamon (and MATE for that matter) at least 2 out of 3 my computers have video stutter (1 of the 2 it's really obvious) playing 720p/1080p h264 (mkv) files, which in short, disappears when using Xfce. but I would say the only issue I have on Xfce on Mint (currently using 21.2-Xfce) is it does not auto-power off the monitor after a certain amount of inactivity. like say I set it to 20-30min before the monitor should power off, it never works (I am not the only one with this issue but I think it's some sort of Xfce bug(?)). but as a work-around if I am going to step away from the computer for any length of time I just press CTRL+ALT+L, which engages the lock-screen at which point about 10 minutes after that the screen will go into sleep/power-off mode. I suspect Cinnamon is probably okay in this regard. but I guess there might be trade-offs when it comes to using random DE's with some setups.

 

On 27/12/2023 at 18:26, Mindovermaster said:

Please don't fight, gents..

Good luck with that...

... as there are quite a few hard-headed people around here to where if you even slightly disagree with them, they go off