do you use tools/utilities after a fresh windows 10/11 installation from scratch or an update ?

[drugo]

Hi

seeing there are many settings like disable some services , windows prefetch (the ssd are so fast) ,microsoft antivirus defender , telemetry and so on

if you have to use install windows 10/11 or update several times for clients or friends , do you use some tools to make your job/task easier and faster ?

about tools i mean like Ultimate Windows Tweaker ,O&O ShutUp10++ or W10Privacy or other utilities /tools 

thanks

Edited December 28, 2023 by drugo

[Jolo]

No. Never. I don't trust them.

[Jim K Global Moderator]

Haha...NOPE! 

Even before 10/11 I wouldn't use third party utilities to customize/modify an install on friends/families computers.

"make your job/task easier and faster" ... what is easier/faster than an OOTB install and ensuring drivers/BIOS and Windows are all up to date?

[+devHead Subscriber²]

Most of these kinds of utilities do not make your Windows 10 / 11 installation better.  Many of them disable services which are needed to keep your computer up to date.  Granted, I am not for all the telemetry data that Windows sends by default.  But much of it can be turned off using the options in Windows settings.  Now, if you don't believe that Windows will actually turn off telemetry settings when you turn them off in the OS, that is another thing.  Many of those apps / utilities feed on the paranoia of people who think that Microsoft somehow wants to know everything about them.  But the changes they make can mess up your system, keeping updates from installing, and modify registry settings that break other parts of the OS.  

I recommend avoiding them.

[+Biscuits Brown MVC]

As those above have already said, nope. I install Windows then updates then regular apps - that's the end.

[+Matthew S. Subscriber²]

Avoid those types of utilities like the plague that they are.  In a default install there is nothing that should need to be used to turn off any unneeded services (which technically there aren't many).

Only "utility" you need on a default install in WinGet.

[Taliseian]

Personally, I feel different that the previous posters.

Yes, there are some utilities that I run after a clean install in order to get my system running the way I want it to.

First off, Bulk Crap Uninstaller.  I use it to remove all the crap that MS installs on a clean install.  No more Spotifiy, Disney+, or other crap.

Next, I head over to Chris Titus Tech and run his "One Tool for Everything" Windows Tool.  That not only get most of the programs I use installed, but tweaks my system most of the way I want it to. 

Finally, I use WinAero Tweaker for the last few items.

 

[drugo]

@Jolo   @Jim K  @devHead  @Biscuits Brown  @Taliseian  @Matthew S.

Hi

ok , I got it , but w11 and w12 do stil use Superfetch SysMain service , and seen how fast are the new ssd ,this service can slow down

what about the windows defrag , you turn off and after an update ,it does turn on again ... 8TB hard disk or a NAS  , well a nightmare

i'm talking about few tweaks to make windows better 

thanks

[Taliseian]

My recommendations -- YMMV!

Superfetch @ Win10/11 -- I don't see it under my systems list for W11 (haven't run 10 in a while).  I do see SysMain and it is running (I think that service took over the functions of Superfetch for W11).

Windows Defrag - It has trim functions built in for SSDs (I currently run both an SSD and an NVME and I use it weekly to trim both of them).

8TB Disk or NAS - Currently I have a 4-bay QNAP NAS at home that I'm using.  I also have a 4TB HDD in my current system for storage.

Tweaks - I mentioned above what I use.

 

[WITHOUT-ME]

bloaty is good

 

https://github.com/builtbybel/BloatyNosy

[Jim K Global Moderator]

Eh, I don't know and maybe I'm confused...but are we installing Windows for another person ... or are we installing/customizing it for our use?  

If I didn't know how to install Windows/Linux/etc. and needed help, I wouldn't want the person installing to be mucking around...I just want the OS installed.

It's easy to show the friend how to right click>uninstall ... they may actually want to play Candy Crush or watch Disney+...who am I to uninstall it? 

Also, in regards to tweaks...nope.  I definitely don't want phone calls because some random errors popup and I question if it was a "tweak" through some random program I used.

[drugo]

@Jim K

Hi

i'm talking if you need to install or update and tweak after windows 11 or 10 , like some registry entries or service or settings ,do you use some utilities ?

 

[goretsky Supervisor]

Hello,

I do not use any third-party tools to tweak my Windows settings.  I do have a notebook with a collection of tweaks that I manually apply, though, depending upon operating system, use-case, who will ultimately be using the system, and so forth. 

I do not disable telemetry for two reasons:

1. Telemetry submitted to Microsoft is anonymized and is private.  You can see what telemetry is collected if you want to.
2. Microsoft makes business and design decisions about Windows' future direction based on the telemetry it receives.  Submitting telemetry is basically how you "vote" to have the features and settings of how you configure the operating system.  It also helps determine which of the programs that come with Windows like Notepad, Problem Steps Recorder, Snipping Tool, WordPad, and so forth, get updated, and which ones get deprecated (i.e., removed).

Microsoft has historically shown it has been unwise about how it uses its telemetry, though, and here's a little anecdote about this:  Remember Windows 8, where Microsoft upended 17 years of Windows' Start Menu refinement and evolution with the nearly universally-panned Start Screen?  In a closed meeting with a Microsoft president a few months before its release, they rather glibly responded to complaints from the attendees about the Start Menu's replacement, explaining about how Microsoft's much-vaunted telemetry collected data showing that people only used the Windows key (to bring up the Start Menu) twice per day, which they interpreted as being an almost unused part of Windows, and thus could be replaced.  The problem, of course, was not that almost no one used it, the problem was that the people and businesses who used it extensively were also the same kind of folks who disabled the telemetry that Microsoft was relying on to make those types of decision.  Microsoft did not account for that in their analysis of all that telemetry, and that's why the Start Menu was reintroduced in the next version of Windows. 

While I think that Microsoft did learn a lesson from that about over-reliance on accepting the raw results telemetry without looking at underlying reasons that might skew it, that lesson was over a decade ago and occasionally I still see poor decisions surface up from the organization, although it is not always clear how much they relied on their telemetry to reach those decisions.

(tl;dr) The point is, though, is that you should leave telemetry in Windows enabled, especially if you change, customize, or otherwise tweak Windows' default settings:  That's how you ensure that Microsoft realizes those default settings they have chosen are non-optimal, and allows them to be changeable in the future.

As for other Windows Defender, I work for a competitor of Microsoft in that space, and install my employer's software on my computers.  Installing third-party security software disables Microsoft's own security software.  Although it does continue to update itself in the background, it does not run unless you uninstall your third-party security software, which is reasonable since you do not want for there to be a gap in protection because it had to download a year's worth of updates at once.

Regards,

Aryeh Goretsky
 

[riceBox]

Most of post-installation/update stuff I do nowadays are just running my own script for removing unnecessary applications (excluding system-critical of course), tweaking some settings like JPEGImportQuality, and AccentColorInactive, and adjusting services/NIC config to allow 802.1X auth.

Other than that, I don't do anymore performance-related tweaking that was common in WinXP days.

[drugo]

@riceBox

hi

are your scripts public ?

thanks

@goretsky

hi

Quote

  Installing third-party security software disables Microsoft's own security software.  Although it does continue to update itself in the background

I did not know about it , on a laptop I have windows 10 and kaspersky and on another laptop windows 11 with bitdefer 

but is there a way to avoid microsoft defender antivirus to keep download virus signature ? I can't believe the only way is to disable Windows Update

thanks

[bikeman25]

In The XP Days and a bit in Windows Vista, 7, 8.0/8.1, and Windows 10 i'll admit i did more tweaks than i do now on my Windows 11 Install,  but nowadays when i do a clean install,  i first get the Windows updates, get those all in, then i update video drivers, and other drivers if needed.

In XP days i used to do ux theme replacements,  run ccleaner more often and registry cleaner part as well (guess i didn't know too much better then)  every year switched Antivirus when i probably shouldn't have (no longer do that either)  been running Defender now steady since 2018 on All Systems, and Malwarebytes Premium.     Systems all running great with standard windows maintenance from time to time and all available WIndows updates installed as soon as released

overall nowadays i don't worry on 3rd party tweaks and just use system for my Gaming, productivity tasks and such

 

[goretsky Supervisor]

On 29/12/2023 at 09:24, drugo said:

@goretsky

hi

I did not know about it , on a laptop I have windows 10 and kaspersky and on another laptop windows 11 with bitdefer 

but is there a way to avoid microsoft defender antivirus to keep download virus signature ? I can't believe the only way is to disable Windows Update

thanks

Hello,

No.  It is just downloading and installing its updates.  That way, if you installing your currently-installed third-party software your computer will not be as exposed to threats.

Regards,

Aryeh Goretsky
 

[Jim K Global Moderator]

On 28/12/2023 at 13:49, drugo said:

@Jim K

Hi

i'm talking if you need to install or update and tweak after windows 11 or 10 , like some registry entries or service or settings ,do you use some utilities ?

 

No, they would be getting a fully up-to-date Windows install with current drivers without any modifications/tweaks/etc.  I'm not going to apply my personal preferences, tweaks or uninstall programs on their system...because it is their system.

[adrynalyne]

On 28/12/2023 at 08:34, drugo said:

@Jolo   @Jim K  @devHead  @Biscuits Brown  @Taliseian  @Matthew S.

Hi

ok , I got it , but w11 and w12 do stil use Superfetch SysMain service , and seen how fast are the new ssd ,this service can slow down

what about the windows defrag , you turn off and after an update ,it does turn on again ... 8TB hard disk or a NAS  , well a nightmare

i'm talking about few tweaks to make windows better 

thanks

Superfetch isn’t slowing anyone down. 

[adrynalyne]

I have a collection of policies and settings apply to the iso and then I don’t need to tweak anything after install. 
 

It only takes one policy to avoid most of the bloatware apps people remove. You end up with a clean system. 

[cooky560 Veteran]

On 29/12/2023 at 09:00, goretsky said:

Telemetry submitted to Microsoft is anonymized and is private

The documents linked do not mention whether or not they collect device IDs or IP addresses, while it's not a name or an e-mail, both are considered PII under GDPR and other legislation, and as such the data is not anonymous, or private.

While I agree that telemetry is not the bogeyman people claim it is, let's be realistic about this claim.

On 29/12/2023 at 09:00, goretsky said:

(tl;dr) The point is, though, is that you should leave telemetry in Windows enabled, especially if you change, customize, or otherwise tweak Windows' default settings:  That's how you ensure that Microsoft realizes those default settings they have chosen are non-optimal, and allows them to be changeable in the future.

Or they could just, you know not remove those settings. The fact the windows 11 taskbar is still crippled after 2 years of updates shows that nothing good comes from over simplification.

[satukoro]

On 30/12/2023 at 12:11, adrynalyne said:

I have a collection of policies and settings apply to the iso and then I don’t need to tweak anything after install. 
 

It only takes one policy to avoid most of the bloatware apps people remove. You end up with a clean system. 

For this reason I always use N versions of Windows when possible. At work I use the Microsoft Deployment Toolkit* to prepare images / task sequences, but at home I just run updates after a clean install and grab a Ninite package to install the basic apps I use like 7z, firefox, vlc, etc. What do you use (if anything specific) to prep ISOs in a personal environment?

* We used to use SCCM/MECM but that was more of a headache to manage than it was worth it for our small team

[fingletmein]

I use "English (World)" at setup which prevents a good chunk of bloatware from installing and then adjust the region when I reach the desktop. I then run the script by Chris Titus that launches a tool used to install WinGet/Chocolately along with countless apps I can pick and choose from instead of installing manually. Lastly, I use its Security Updates settings to push off feature updates as long as Windows lets you and puts security updates a couple days behind so you have time to react if they launch a system wrecking one.

[goretsky Supervisor]

On 19/01/2024 at 06:47, cooky560 said:

The documents linked do not mention whether or not they collect device IDs or IP addresses, while it's not a name or an e-mail, both are considered PII under GDPR and other legislation, and as such the data is not anonymous, or private.

While I agree that telemetry is not the bogeyman people claim it is, let's be realistic about this claim.

Or they could just, you know not remove those settings. The fact the windows 11 taskbar is still crippled after 2 years of updates shows that nothing good comes from over simplification.

Hello,

The European Union does allow Microsoft to sell Windows licenses within its market, so I think it is safe to say they comply with GDPR regulations.  I recall there was a matter reviewed by the Dutch DPA about five years ago that ended up getting referred to the Irish DPA.  I'm unsure of what happened with that, but presumably it has been remediated by now.

Regards,

Aryeh Goretsky
 

[cooky560 Veteran]

Plenty of people legally have windows licenses in the EU, so they were sold somehow to those users!

However even if the GDPR thing was not an issue, it doesn't remove my point that your claim about the telemetry being anonymous and private is false, by virtue of the collection of device IDs and IP addresses.