How much of a dent would this put into a Tesla's range?

[Steven P. Administrators]

When  I was out walking I came across this and had to take a picture:

I wonder how much that would shave off the range of the electric motor?

[Stuman]

Probably reduced it by one third. Don't the EV advocates realize that electricity used for charging is made by power plants using natural gas, oil or coal. Unless they live next door to a hydroelectric dam or a solar farm is there any chance of "natural" energy. Please don't get me started on Just Stop Oil.

[Astra.Xtreme]

On 19/02/2024 at 01:27, Stuman said:

Probably reduced it by one third. Don't the EV advocates realize that electricity used for charging is made by power plants using natural gas, oil or coal. Unless they live next door to a hydroelectric dam or a solar farm is there any chance of "natural" energy. Please don't get me started on Just Stop Oil.

By now, most people realize that EV isn't a magical 100% green technology.  From what I've read, you have to drive an EV at least 60,000 miles before it becomes less "polluting" than an ICE vehicle.  That's pretty reasonable though.

The bigger issue is that range isn't good enough, charging isn't fast enough, and charging stations aren't nearly as widespread as they need to be.  All reasons why adoption is slow in the US.
It's super annoying when you go to a gas station and all the pumps are full, so you have to sit for 2 minutes for one to free up.  Imagine that problem at an EV charging station, but having to wait 20-30+ min just to get a plug.  What a nightmare that will be.

[Xenon]

On 19/02/2024 at 10:33, Astra.Xtreme said:

All reasons why adoption is slow in the US.

Don't forget weather. It gets cold (like holy crap cold in the northern Midwest) and that reduces the effectiveness of the batteries. 

[neufuse Veteran]

On 19/02/2024 at 02:27, Stuman said:

Probably reduced it by one third. Don't the EV advocates realize that electricity used for charging is made by power plants using natural gas, oil or coal. Unless they live next door to a hydroelectric dam or a solar farm is there any chance of "natural" energy. Please don't get me started on Just Stop Oil.

and transmission from a plant to your car is only 60% efficient compared to the amount of energy produced at the plant even if it is a "Green" plant.... then you lose even more efficiency with the charging last estimate I heard was its ~50% of energy in to what is ending up in your battery in the end... still think hydrogen fuel cells were the way to go but hey...... keep burning coal and other hydrocarbons to charge your car... no I'm not against EV's, I actually would like to have one.. just the back end and the efficiency of it isn't there right now and wont be for a good long while, so are we really making a difference pollution wise? and we haven't even got into the cost of mining lithium and other materials

[Astra.Xtreme]

On 19/02/2024 at 10:35, Xenon said:

Don't forget weather. It gets cold (like holy crap cold in the northern Midwest) and that reduces the effectiveness of the batteries. 

Oh absolutely.  We had an arctic blast about a month ago, and Chicago EV owners were in for a treat.
https://qz.com/chicago-evs-tesla-cold-weather-battery-performance-1851172536

It's mighty tempting to start a business with a trailer of batteries to charge up all the stranded EVs.  That problem is going to keep getting worse as more people buy those things.

[dwd999]

How about something simpler and less complicated: I don't want to sound like a crotchety old boomer geezer even though I am but I've never paid more than $25,000US for a brand new car including my present Ford Fusion. So unless they bring the price down I'll never consider one. They talk about EV sales decreasing and its probably because they've exhausted the higher priced buyers market and ordinary people who would buy a Toyota Camry or Corolla or a Honda Civic aren't going to spend the kind of money Tesla wants for a model 3.

[Xenon]

On 19/02/2024 at 14:30, Astra.Xtreme said:

Oh absolutely.  We had an arctic blast about a month ago, and Chicago EV owners were in for a treat.
https://qz.com/chicago-evs-tesla-cold-weather-battery-performance-1851172536

It's mighty tempting to start a business with a trailer of batteries to charge up all the stranded EVs.  That problem is going to keep getting worse as more people buy those things.

Yea. I just read how people in Norway really don't have the cold weather problem with EV's because they keep them in garages most of the time where it is warm. 

[DocM]

On 19/02/2024 at 11:35, Xenon said:

Don't forget weather. It gets cold (like holy crap cold in the northern Midwest) and that reduces the effectiveness of the batteries. 

 

And yet the Tesla Model 3 is the most popular car in Norway. Not just EV, all cars.The trick is reading the manual. It's a process similar to starting your gasoline car and letting it warm up before leaving.

First, leave the car plugged in to do Level 2 charging overnight. In order to charge the battery needs to be warmed to the proper temperature, and once topped off makes the next step easier.

Using either their app or the car controls, set a timer to turn on the cabin heat when you get up. This will activate the vehicle heat pump, which they use instead of a power eating resistant heater. It can extract heat from cold air, then deposit it in the interior and in the battery and motors. It also keeps the battery topped off. It's called preconditioning.

When you leave the car is warm, the battery has full power, and the motors are ready to go. If your employer, or a store you need to stop at, has Level 2 chargers,  precondition before you leave.

Once you get to a supercharger station can I add about 100 miles of range in about 10 minutes.

Edited February 19, 2024 by DocM

[Steven P. Administrators]

On 19/02/2024 at 21:08, DocM said:

And yet the Tesla Model 3 is the most popular car in Norway. Not just EV, all cars.The trick is reading the manual. It's a process similar to starting your gasoline car and letting it warm up before leaving.

First, leave the car plugged in to do Level 2 charging overnight. In order to charge the battery needs to be warmed to the proper temperature, and once topped off makes the next step easier.

Using either their app or the car controls, set a timer to turn on the cabin heat when you get up. This will activate the vehicle heat pump, which they use instead of a power eating resistant heater. It can extract heat from cold air, then deposit it in the interior and in the battery and motors. It also keeps the battery topped off. It's called preconditioning.

When you leave the car is warm, the battery has full power, and the motors are ready to go. If your employer, or a store you need to stop at, has Level 2 chargers, if needed. If the charge in the car is still up, preconditioned before you leave.

Once you get to a supercharger station can I add about 100 miles of range in about 10 minutes.

[Astra.Xtreme]

Technology needs to progress the same way humans do, over time.  Simpler and dumber.  
It's why Apple products are so successful. 😆

[Steven P. Administrators]

Gasoline car: Get in, start engine, wait a bit for the heater to warm the cabin
Tesla: Are you college educated son? Okay, now pull out the manual there's a bit of reading to do, and I hope you took preemptive steps yesterday for your journey today!

😛 

[+Mud W1ggle Subscriber²]

On 20/02/2024 at 09:08, DocM said:

Once you get to a supercharger station can I add about 100 miles of range in about 10 minutes.

and I can add 600-700 km of range in about 2-3 mins by filling my tank

Until Electric can do that, its a no from me.

[neufuse Veteran]

On 19/02/2024 at 17:50, Steven P. said:

Gasoline car: Get in, start engine, wait a bit for the heater to warm the cabin
Tesla: Are you college educated son? Okay, now pull out the manual there's a bit of reading to do, and I hope you took preemptive steps yesterday for your journey today!

😛 

and did you map out every fast charging station along your route? no? ok well spend 4 hours doing that first!

[DocM]

On 19/02/2024 at 17:50, Steven P. said:

Gasoline car: Get in, start engine, wait a bit for the heater to warm the cabin
Tesla: Are you college educated son? Okay, now pull out the manual there's a bit of reading to do, and I hope you took preemptive steps yesterday for your journey today!

😛 

It's actually a one click icon in the app. A bit more if you want to schedule a time, but no harder than setting an alarm on your phone.

[DocM]

On 19/02/2024 at 22:18, neufuse said:

and did you map out every fast charging station along your route? no? ok well spend 4 hours doing that first!

Call up the Navigation system, no harder than changing a tab. Touch Search, select Charging. Superchargers are displayed. You can reserve one in advance, then the vehicle will precondition itself on the way to make for a faster charge.

[DocM]

On 19/02/2024 at 20:04, Mud W1ggle said:

and I can add 600-700 km of range in about 2-3 mins by filling my tank

Until Electric can do that, its a no from me.

 

That's only an issue for trips, the average person only drives 40 miles a day. And don't tell me you're going to drive that far without going to the bathroom or stopping for lunch. Supercharger stations often have a rest station and food. 

Let's just say you have a Tesla and live in Dearborn - a suburb adjacent to Detroit. The range of a Tesla Model Y long range will get you all the way to the Mackinac Bridge, which is the crossing to Michigan's upper peninsula. What's waiting there for you? A Tesla Supercharger station. There are two more on the way if you need one. 

And, Tesla is starting to roll out very large stations. The first opened in California with 158 stalls, 16 of which could handle vehicles with trailers.

[neufuse Veteran]

On 20/02/2024 at 12:01, DocM said:

Call up the Navigation system, no harder than changing a tab. Touch Search, select Charging. Superchargers are displayed. You can reserve one in advance, then the vehicle will precondition itself on the way to make for a faster charge.

on tesla's sure... other's not so much, and a lot of the charging stations end up being out of service that aren't tesla branded ones.. in my town right now out of the 12 charging locations, only 3 of them are "active" the others are "out of service" and one's been that way for over a year now yet still shows on the map as available

[DocM]

On 20/02/2024 at 13:36, neufuse said:

on tesla's sure... other's not so much, and a lot of the charging stations end up being out of service that aren't tesla branded ones.. in my town right now out of the 12 charging locations, only 3 of them are "active" the others are "out of service" and one's been that way for over a year now yet still shows on the map as available

Don't forget that Tesla's Supercharger has been standardized as SAE J3400, the North American Charging System. 

Just about every EV sold in North America will use the Tesla NACS system in 2025; Ford, GM, Stellantis, Toyota, Volkswagen, Scout,  Hyundai/Kia, Mercedes, Porsche, Audi, Mazda, you get the idea. Once Tesla opened the design it only took a few months for everyone to sign up.

2024 and back vehicles will be supported under NACS using adapters available from the manufacturer or Tesla. Superchargers will have Magic Dock, a built-in adapter for vehicles with the CCS1 system. Tesla NACS Level 2 chargers for homes are already on the market, and the latest ones have Magic Dock.

In addition to this, all of those outfits will be able to use the Tesla Supercharger system, charger makers can use and produce the Tesla NACS design, their apps & navs can use the Tesla SC APIs, data, and fueling stations will be able to buy white label Superchargers they can put their own livery on. BP was first to sign up, so expect more. Even some European charger makers have licensed NACS.

This all started when the CEO of Ford was taking a family trip in a Mustang MACH-E only to find out CCS1 chargers were few and far between, but Tesla Supercharger stations were much more available and much more reliable (uptime 96%, CCS1  more like 76%). GM was quick to follow, then it was a stampede.

Edited February 21, 2024 by DocM

[DocM]

Tesla universal home charger review

Their home charger includes the Magic Dock integrated CCS1/SAE J1772 adapter discussed in the previous post, which allows it to charge both CCS1 and Tesla NACS/SAE J3400 vehicles. The Hilton hotel chain will be installing 20,000 Tesla chargers in North America.

 

 

Edited February 21, 2024 by DocM

[neufuse Veteran]

On 20/02/2024 at 23:41, DocM said:

Don't forget that Tesla's Supercharger has been standardized as SAE J3400, the North American Charging System. 

Just about every EV sold in North America will use the Tesla NACS system in 2025; Ford, GM, Stellantis, Toyota, Volkswagen, Scout,  Hyundai/Kia, Mercedes, Porsche, Audi, Mazda, you get the idea. Once Tesla opened the design it only took a few months for everyone to sign up.

2024 and back vehicles will be supported under NACS using adapters available from the manufacturer or Tesla. Superchargers will have Magic Dock, a built-in adapter for vehicles with the CCS1 system. Tesla NACS Level 2 chargers for homes are already on the market, and the latest ones have Magic Dock.

In addition to this, all of those outfits will be able to use the Tesla Supercharger system, charger makers can use and produce the Tesla NACS design, their apps & navs can use the Tesla SC APIs, data, and fueling stations will be able to buy white label Superchargers they can put their own livery on. BP was first to sign up, so expect more. Even some European charger makers have licensed NACS.

This all started when the CEO of Ford was taking a family trip in a Mustang MACH-E only to find out CCS1 chargers were few and far between, but Tesla Supercharger stations were much more available and much more reliable (uptime 96%, CCS1  more like 76%). GM was quick to follow, then it was a stampede.

it's standardized with a big astrix behind the standard, read the whole spec... 

[DocM]

On 21/02/2024 at 08:07, neufuse said:

it's standardized with a big astrix behind the standard, read the whole spec... 

 

On 21/02/2024 at 08:07, neufuse said:

it's standardized with a big astrix behind the standard, read the whole spec... 

This is one where the industry is ahead of the standards organizations. Such thing as adding bidirectional charging, 800 and 1,000 volt support, etc have been handled at the negotiations between Tesla and other automakers. The Supercharger v4 Megacharger brings in charging at 1,000 kWh.

[Slugsie]

On 18/02/2024 at 23:08, Steven P. said:

When  I was out walking I came across this and had to take a picture:

I wonder how much that would shave off the range of the electric motor?

Probably about the same as it would off an ICE car.

[FloatingFatMan]

On 18/02/2024 at 23:08, Steven P. said:

When  I was out walking I came across this and had to take a picture:

I wonder how much that would shave off the range of the electric motor?

That's actually a spare set of batteries,  just in case it rains.

 

[DocM]

On 07/03/2024 at 07:53, FloatingFatMan said:

That's actually a spare set of batteries,  just in case it rains.

There actually is a Range Extender battery for the back of a Cybertruck which adds about 45 kWh of power. Serves the same purpose as the accessory fuel tank some North American pickup owners put in the back of their trucks.

ICE tank.