ASP, JSP, or PHP???

[Arpit]

Which one is best for making websites...that are easy to maintain (update at a regular basis), has support by most of the browsers out there and *ahem* ..user friendly too...I don't know any of the three languages, but am gonna begin learning them, so which one should I start off with??

[amoeba]

I would go with php (http://www.php.net) because I like using it with Apache Webserver (http://httpd.apache.org). I also use MySQL (http://www.mysql.com) which also works AMAZINGLY well with Apache running PHP.

What you have for ASP is IIS (Internet Information Services, I think is the acronym). Microsoft-only and really bulky. I have to give it something for the fact it handles more than just web (email, ftp, and more), but it is just not what I am looking for in a server.

Apache uses 1.744MB of memory and MySQL uses 244k of memory. I happen to think this is pretty low for a webserver that is rated the most powerful and customizable webserver software out there.

If you go with PHP (http://www.php.net) has a complete manual on how to use PHP, installing, configuring and building. If you are planning on having forums, go with phpBB (http://www.phpbb.com) or vBulletin (http://www.vbulletin.com). Both of those are great forum systems and work with Apache running PHP.

Of course, you need MySQL (http://www.mysql.com/) to run those forums. If you do that, I recommend you get phpMyAdmin (http://phpmyadmin.sourceforge.net/) to graphically maintain your MySQL databases.

I need to finish this off before it becomes an entire essay, but those are the basics. PHP is a great language and has a very nice compatibility rating among databases, forums, and other various scripts (not to mention just about all web browsers out there love PHP).

Good luck!

[CaPeRKiNG77]

Personally, I prefer PHP. ASP you need either a Windows server, unless you get the apache mod, and I've never looked at JSP. Here's a quote from http://www.php.net/usage.php to prove PHP's popularity.

Usage Stats for January 2002

PHP: 7,525,142 Domains, 1,079,999 IP Addresses

Source: Netcraft

PHP (for me at least) is also incredibly easy to learn. There are numerous tutorials out there, try http://www.devshed.com for one, and take a peek at http://www.php.net for more. One thing to note is that these languages are server based, therefore browser support is irrelevant, unlike other client side languages such as dhtml/javascript/jscript/etc. Another thing is that in general you can develop your PHP programs in a Windows environment and they almost seamlessly port to *nix without much editing. In fact, I have PHP running as an Apache module on XP Pro and have never had to make any changes when transferring to a *nix server. That's just my 2 cents so I hope this helps.

PiMPiN

[3nd3r]

php is the far best but you forgot perl .cgi

[amoeba]

Perl is just too limited of a language.

PHP is actually very similar to Perl and contains most of the same qualities, but simply enough: more! =P

Go with PHP.

[Arpit]

Thanks A LOT guys! :)

Wow...that was really informative...

Yeah I do plan to have forums and stuff like that. So, what exactly do I need for this...

MySQL

Apache Webserver

phpMyAdmin

phpBB or vBulletin

...is this all webbased type stuff...or is this directly from my computer (i.e. do I need to have my computer on 24/7 for this??)

...is there anything else that I need??

[skooter]

you'll also need the php parser from http://www.php.net

if you want to run the whole thing from your computer, you're gonna need it turned on whenever you want your site up. this sounds like this is what you're going to do.

but, if it's for a proper site that should be up 24/7, you're gonna need a host that supports all that stuff.

[amoeba]

Thanks A LOT guys!

Wow...that was really informative...

Yeah I do plan to have forums and stuff like that. So, what exactly do I need for this...

MySQL

Apache Webserver

phpMyAdmin

phpBB or vBulletin

...is this all webbased type stuff...or is this directly from my computer (i.e. do I need to have my computer on 24/7 for this??)

...is there anything else that I need??

PHP - Need to install

MySQL - Need to install

Apache - Need to install

phpMyAdmin - Folder placed in website root

Forum Software - Need to configure from folder in website root

Example:

My Setup:

MySQL is located at C:MySQL

Apache is at C:Apache

PHP is at C:PHP

Perl is at C:Perl

phpMyAdmin is at http://mydomain.com/phpmyadmin

vBulletin (what I use) is at http://mydomain.com/vbulletin

Essentially, PHP/MySQL/Apache/Perl are "installed" and phpMyAdmin and your forum software, along with various other scripts (polls, counters, guestbooks, etc) are just folders in your webroot (http://mydomain.com/{whatever}) and need to be configured for use.

I prefer to run all of the above myself, from my home computer. You can definitely find a host with all those options, but it will cost you.

Hope that helps you further.

[Arpit]

I can use my old computer as the setup machine which I can leave on for 24/7...

Do I have to pay to get a domain name and stuff?? Or is it one of those things that if I host the site myself, I can get a domain name free?? (Highly doubt that).

So installing all those things and stuff means I'm essentially hosting the site myself (For which I'm guessing I won't have to pay??)...

What are the advantages/disadvantages of this??

A couple I'm guessing are...a lot more storage space, no bandwidth problem from the host (except from my ISP, who I doubt would mind all that much)....am I right??

[CaPeRKiNG77]

When hosting it yourself on your own computer there's always the ISP to think of. Downtime is always a major concern, as well as a decreased speed concern. Generally purchasing monthly hosting gives you limited space, which is usually more than sufficient for your basic site needs, but the advantage is pure speed and support if something messes up. I host my own sites locally for development purposes, but production sites are always on commercial servers. It is possible to have a TLD domain name point to your machine, you just need someone to host the DNS, and there are plenty of sites that do DNS only hosting which you can then point to your computer, regardless of the fact that you have a dynamic IP or not. Do a google search for free DNS Hosting to find some.

If hosting locally on your old machine, I recommend installing a *nix distro on the old machine, as Apache/PHP/MySQL/Perl always runs better in a *nix environment, and maintenance of the machine can be done through a terminal (telnet) client. If however *nix is not an option, or you prefer Windows, get PHPTriad.

PHPTriad is PHPGeek.com's flagship product. It installs a PHP web server environment on Windows platforms. It includes Apache, PHP, MySQL, Perl and PHPMyAdmin. It is intended to make lives easier for PHP developers of all levels. Additional resources related to PHP and open source software on the 32 bit Windows platforms are available.

Download the PHP Manual and read up on PHP. It's a wonderful, powerful language with an easy learning curve. Tthink about it, Neowin.net is largely, if not entirely, coded in PHP, as well as most large sites you see on the net today. If you do decided to go the PHP route, I also recommend that at a later date you look into the other languages as well, you can never know too many languages.

[Dessimat0r]

btw... PHP is a Perl wrapper, just for those who dont know :)

So basically, PHP is an easier version of Perl - more coding in less lines ;)

[Arequero]

I'm using ASP because this was being used at work. I have to say that I haven't any problems at all, it's stable, fast, lots of resources availables.

Of course that you have to pay more than PHP, but it works.

PD: You guess, I'm the only one who vote ASP :D

[robinmthomas]

-->Syntax Error-->

Don't listen to these schmoes!

Please don't be offended...but I am guessing you are fairly new to dynamic web content and web servers.

If this is true, stay away from Apache, PHP, mySQL. They are okay programs and do well as the previous posts claim, but they are not an easy install, configure, setup.

IIS/ASP is the best way to get up and running quickly. If you are worried about security - don't be. Download the latest patches, run IISLock Down (a tool that scripts some IIS settings) and you will be alright.

Here are two more thoughts:

1. ASP (version 3.0) is VBScript. A subset of Visual Basic. If you know VB ASP will be a walk in the park. PHP uses some language I am not familar with.

2. the .NET Framework. You install the framework (which is free on IIS 4/5/6 and you can run ASP.NET. What is ASP.NET? Well, for starters it lets you write dynamic content (i.e. what this whole thing is about) in 1 of 4 languages with more on the way.

That's right. You can write ASP.NET (ver 4 of ASP) in C++, VB, C#, Java (some form, don't know for sure), and more languages are coming Colbal for one.

You write in the language you want and then it compiles it. Yes, you heard me correctly. ASP.NET is a complied language whereas, the others are scripts that get read at runtime.

I won't pretent to know everything, but IIS/Windows is so much easier to work with.

The real question is: Do you want to spend time setting up your server or building a kick ass web site.

NOTE - Apache, mySQL, PHP are good tools, but the learning curve is much higher and so is the development time.

[Dessimat0r]

riiiighhhhttt

[Arequero]

Now I know I'm not alone....

I agree with robinmthomas. ASP just works, I'm using it in enterprise oriented sites, and works very well.

Its also true, that ASP.net address must of the shortcomings of ASP and PHP, and add new tools that I think will rock in the internet (eg. Server controls).

I know that ASP is backed only by one company, but it's the biggest, powerful and richer company in the world :D

[Arpit]

Okay...so, all in all, what do I end up paying for, if I host the site myself...with what conditions and stuff??

I'm guessing if I find a host, I'll have to pay for the service + the domain + DNS??

I AM new to the dynamic web building world, however I wanna learn as I go on.

Robin...thanks for the suggestion, and I'll work on that on the side as well, but right now, I kinda want something which looks more or less professional, is stable, and easy to maintain...*This isn't a personal website actually...and most people seem to go for PHP, so I'll go for that for now...ASP/JSP will be my second choice (Which I DO plan to learn)* :)

https://www.neowin.net/bboard/showthread.ph...?threadid=16215

Thanks a lot for all the info...and if there's anything else I'd need, please let me know...thanks!! I'll be asking a lot more questions as I go along with this...;)

[robinmthomas]

From the end user (i.e. the browser) ASP/PHP/JSP are exactly the same. (hint - it's called HTML).

All of those do server side processing and then render the HTML so that any browser can see them.

PHP can be made to look as bad or as good as you want. ASP is not more or less professional. You still have to code the project.

The question is: how much time do you want to spend learning to code as opposed to actually coding.

ASP has much more resources on the net for people to learn, use, borrow. PHP has its share as well.

As for hosting. You need to pay a Registrar for your domain name (35/year - I think) and you'll need to pay some one to host your site and DNS. I would recammend intermedia.net because they have an amazing web-based admin tool (they have a demo of it that shows what you (as the client can change)

If you want to host your own web site, check out dslwebserver.com. Good tutorials there about using ZoneEdit to host your DNS for free and then all you pay for is your DSL connection (or cable - I assume you have broadband) and the 35/year for the domain name.

If you are serious about make a choice - do some research chances are you will end up using "your choice" for 5 years because it will become very comfortable. ASP.NET will give you comfort you need while increasing features and power.

[iUk]

I would go for ASP or ASP.NET.

The .Net framework is amazing! EMail, file-upload, database access, everything is already there. And it's compiled so it's a whole lot faster than anything out there. And the hosting is pretty cheap.

My hosts have a $9.95/month plan that has full access to the .Net framework, minus the database, but it's still very powerful for very little money...

Plus, if you know VisualBasic or VBScript, or JavaScript, or C#, or C++, or Cobol, or Perl, etc. you can code an ASP.Net page in any .Net-compliant language.

Plus, ASP.Net supports all of the open standards of SOAP and XML, etc. It's really powerful, and you can buy a book for $40 and learn everything you need to know.

Go with ASP.Net!

iUk

[Arpit]

*sigh*...conflicted now...

As far as .net goes...I only know basic C++/C# (Console Applications) and nothing much further than that, and as far as web designing goes, nothing much further than HTML...

(any change in recommendations??) :o

I suppose I will be needing database access for forums and stuff??...and if I DO go with ASP, what hosts provide access to the .net stuff???

Can I have one thing as the main thing, and the other as a backup??...PHP being the main thing, and ASP as a backup, or vice versa??

[iUk]

The thing with ASP.Net is that it takes an effort to design anything. You have to come up with the database design, the application interface, etc.

That's why it's really powerful for web applications developers who want to build something that is customized to their situation for their client or company intranet/extranet, etc.

If you are just looking for a site to post information and to have forums, etc. then go with PHP since you can get vBulletin and PHPNuke, etc., all of which do a lot of the work for you, you just plug in the logos, colors, etc. ASP requires a lot more up-front development time.

I'm not a big fan of the "everything is free"-linux/unix/apache crowd, but for what you want to do, PHP sounds like the way to go.

Sorry for the confusion,

iUk

[robinmthomas]

ASP also offers free pre-written code packages for forums, postings, news, etc.

ASP doesn't require a database; it provides for many other features.

A database is used for storing information, if you don't need to store info, you may not need a dynamic web site.

Where are you pulling this dynamic info from if you don't want a database?

[robinmthomas]

Here is a quick list that may help:

Snitz Forums 2000 ASP Free

vBulletin PHP $160

Ultimate Bulletin Board CGI/Perl $249

phpBB PHP Free

IkonBoard CGI/Perl Free

OpenForum ASP Free

IdealBB ASP Free

ASP-DEV Support Forums ASP Free

POP Forums ASP $175

Fuse Talk Cold Fusion $189

ASP Fast Forum ASP $175

[Hummer]

if you're going to go the php route try this

FoxServ is an Apache / mySQL / PHP installer package for Windows and Linux. Unlike NuShpere or PHPTriad, FoxServ features the latest version of all included pacakges, user defined configuration during installation, PHP as a module, PEAR, and the Zend Opt

Foxserv

[orphic]

PHP + Zend + MySQL + XML + Apache + *nix Server = 31337

[Arpit]

But Robin...I don't have much experience in .net development stuff (yet)...so, do you still think it'll be the way to go?? :o...

[nemo]

PHP is by far the most powerful language out of those three.. It has the most potential. I'd say go with apache running PHP, mysql, and basically everythign else that everyone has mentioned...

if you want to create a quick web page with php. try phpnuke at http://www.phpnuke.org i thinks thats it?