ASP, JSP, or PHP???

[Arpit]

Which one is best for making websites...that are easy to maintain (update at a regular basis), has support by most of the browsers out there and *ahem* ..user friendly too...I don't know any of the three languages, but am gonna begin learning them, so which one should I start off with??

[YahoKa]

Assuming you know HTML ... i would start with coldfusion (just use the trial versions.) It is such an easy language that it helps you to spend more time on understanding concepts. Since coldfusion is so expensive, you can them learn PHP and it should be easy.

[Arequero]

Robin:

A was about to install a copy of snitz forum, but read your post, and decided to try the options you say:

1?. IdealBB ASP:is not free> $299

2?. OpenForum: What's the url, can't find it

[Arpit]

I've heard a lot about Unix server + PHP and stuff...umm...Whatever I run (ASP/PHP) is going to be on a Windows platform...*either Windows XP Pro, or Windows 2000 Pro*...(I am most likely to host the site myself...don't want to spend a lot $$$ for that...)

I have Visual Studio.net ...so, I'm guessing I've got everything I need for ASP (except for some language skills...are there any tutorials out there??)

Now I am going to be the ONLY ONE (for a while at least) who's going to be working/maintaining the website and stuff...and you guys are already familiar with my..ahem..development skills.

I want to spend a fair share of time developing the site, but once it's up, I don't want to do just as much work to update it every week or so...and both the languages sound tempting :ermm:

...is there some sort of a trial/tutorial thing for ASP that I can try and see to have a vague idea what's it going to be like??

[rommi]

>What you have for ASP is IIS (Internet Information Services, I think is the acronym)

This shows your not 100% what your talking about. ;)

>Microsoft-only and really bulky.

IIS Bulky ? Silly Boy.

What do you make of the fact that MS had read ahead for its web server built into the NT kernel 5

years before SUN had the know how to put it in Solaris ?

>but it is just not what I am looking for in a server.

Why ? For this obvious novice, setting up IIS is going to be much easier than fiddling with the apache conf.

>Apache uses 1.744MB of memory and MySQL uses 244k of memory.

2 meg of memory, when 128 meg of RAM is 30 quid ? Is that relevant ? How much do you think IIS takes?

>go with phpBB (http://www.phpbb.com) or vBulletin (http:// www.vbulletin.com).

Both of those are great forum systems and work with Apache running PHP.

I agree, 2 great forum systems, both run on IIS.

>Of course, you need MySQL (http://www.mysql.com/) to run those forums. If you do that, I recommend you get phpMyAdmin (http://phpmyadmin.sourceforge.net/) to graphically maintain your MySQL databases.

I'd recommend MySQLFront, much better than phpmyadmin ;)

[iUk]

Syntax Error -- Since you have VS.Net, I would completely recommend ASP.Net.

Go buy Sams ASP.NET Unleashed and it will teach you everything you need to know. Plus, Visual Studio's Web Form designer is super easy and will guide you through a lot of it.

Since you've got VS.Net, go with ASP.Net. If you need help on any of your design or questions, feel free to email me: intentionallyu@msn.com.

Plus there is all of the Microsoft MSDN documents online and in the VS.Net Help, which isn't 100% great, but very useful. Also there are plenty of web sites, including http://www.asp.net and http://www.superexpert.com.

Go ASP.Net!

iUk

[Arpit]

Okay...*sigh*...couple of days ago, I knew exactly what I would go for...:roll:

Anyways...what exactly is needed for ASP, and PHP...(What would I have to pay for??)

-it's going to be on a Windows platform (not *nix)

-most likely hosted by me

-nice and easy to learn/work with

-doesn't take very long to maintain/update (since I'll be the only one doing it...for a while at least)

By the way, I plan to have a menu similar to what MS's has got

http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/ (on the left)...where there's one link, then sublinks and stuff...that can be done in either of the languages though, right??

i have a feeling, that despite of the huge ratio, i might just go with ASP...:o...keep the reponses coming though!

[robinmthomas]

Here ya go:

Description:

OpenForum is an initial framework for page-level integrated forums. It's not intended to be a fully-featured forum application but rather a simple and efficient forum base......

http://www.2enetworx.com/dev/projects/openforum.asp

As for IdealBB, the source I had said it was still free.

Sorry for the confusion.

As for Cold Fusion....-Don't.

ASP/PHP will out perform Cold Fusion any day.

I thought Cold Fusion was a life saving because it was so much "like HTML", but I didn't realize that I was giving up power and features found with ASP.

With that said, now that Macromedia owns Allaire, I would expect to see Macromedia Generator merged into Cold Fusion. Generator, for those who don't know, allows for dynamic Flash movies, i.e. the values are pulled from a database. Flash is very cool technology. So Cold Fusion may be needed for somethings.

If you got VS.NET, you are set. ASP.NET all the way.

Want some help, try any of these:

www.asp101.com

www.gotdotnet.com

www.asp.net

www.4guysfromrolla.com/

.NET Hosting:

www.maximumasp.com - Probably the first to offer .NET hosting. They are a perferred partner of Microsoft and have been doing offer FREE .NET space (I don't know if that is still valid) to get people to try it.

www.intermedia.net - I think they do .NET hosting.

[robinmthomas]

This is cool, I just read this:

"Microsoft has chosen MaximumASP as one of a handful of hosting partners to be intergrated directly into Visual Studio .NET. Beginning February 13, just click the "Web Hosting" link from the Start Page in Visual Studio.NET, and you'll be able to publish directly to a MaximumASP account from within VS.NET! You can read the MaximumASP.NET press release here."

[zivan56]

I work in both JSP and PHP, do not use JSP as it opens java every time to process the pages, and plus it has imports and complicated stuff which can be done in PHP in a sec like include a file. Plus PHP has lots of people using it with lots of easy tutorials. I have been using PHP for a year or so and it a piece of cake to write complicated web apps and portal sites :D. Btw, dont go with ASP, it is evil and should be shot dead :evil: . I've delt with many sites going slow with 100% cpu for proccesing a simple page to connect to a database in ASP. Anyways, PHP is similar to C++ in some ways and is more flexible. And as someone commented that ASP is less work, try beating this for including a file:

<?php include('file.php'); ?>[/PHP]

;)

[robinmthomas]

By the way, I can beat that.

Here is how it works in ASP.

Here is my last post (unless I post another one ):) :

Do your research...find out what you think is easy. I think ASP has more potential than PHP that's why I am pushing that as a choice, but most likly anything you want to do can be done in very similar ways in both ASP and PHP.

Stay about from JSP .... well....because I hate Sun, no other reason. I hate AOL too, for that matter.

[iUk]

zivan56 -- the 100% CPU usage is because the person mis-wrote the code. That happens when someone get's stuck in an infinite loop in their code. People do it all the time, it's a common coding mistake, and not only in ASP. That's why you never develop code on a live server, because of mistakes like that.

And it's not a big deal to fix, you just Stop and Start IIS. Ooooh. Like that's too much to do. :)

[PiMPiN]

Syntax, I would still go the PHP route, even if you are using a Windows server. PHP can also be installed for IIS, and you did say that you wanted to learn a language, not point and click for your answers right? As I've stated before, PHP is by far the most powerful of the languages listed, and it's free, not to mention open source. I've been developing in PHP since PHPFI (pre PHP3), and I've also done some ASP, and personally I find PHP better (I've seen a lot more ASP database/server errors than PHP, not to mention Code Red and Nimda for IIS servers). My suggestion is to take robinmthomas's advice and decide for yourself which way you would like to go. And as far as your question about the left sided menu similar to the MS site, it could be developed in PHP as well as ASP, but then again it depends on the browser. One thing to keep in mind when developing sites is the end users browser, lately a lot of sites ignore the differences in versions and user platforms.

On a side note, I'd like to point out to robinmthomas:

By the way, I can beat that.

Here is how it works in ASP.

is not only ASP, nor is it only PHP... it's been a part of Apache itself for years via SSI (Server Side Includes). But you are correct in the fact that both ASP and PHP are similar, yet different in their own ways.

Refer to http://www.apacheweek.com/features/ssi

[robinmthomas]

PiMPiN wrote:

"PHP is by far the most powerful of the languages listed"

I flat out disagree and I challenge you to prove it!!!

Now, here is one other fact, and I can't prove this, nor do I have any real facts, but I have heard that apache on Windows is down-right horrible.

If this is true, it means you got bring up a linux box, which is not small task --- No matter what anyone says!

The only ASP database errors come from bad programming -- Guess what! Bad programming exist in PHP too!

ASP/JSP/PHP are only as good as the programmers. I like ASP because it is visual basic and the learner curve is much less than Java --- I haven't tried PHP.

And to rebuke his comment:

[Prash]

Use ASP for windows if u gonna run windows, but i usggets PHP for linux JSP keeps opening java packages.

[iUk]

PiMPiN -- Syntax Error has Visual Studio.Net, allowing him to use ASP.Net which is the most powerful format out there since it is a compiled class in Visual Basic/C#/JScript.

PHP will lose each time to a compiled ASP.Net page... Sorry...

:)

iUk

[wog boy]

if your using a windows server. don't bother with php. but if your server is a unix/linux box then go for php. in my opinon it is an easy and powerful scripting language to use for web development.

hey why else would neowin use it?

:p

[PiMPiN]

robinmthomas:

Perhaps I should have clarified. In my opinion, PHP is by far more powerful. There is nothing that you can do in ASP that I cannot do in PHP, and once again, PHP doesn't rely on M$ and is free for all platforms. As to the stabilty of Apache on Windows, yes the Apache group admits that Apache (the 1.X tree) is not as stable on Windows as Unix, they are improving the 2.X tree to be more stable for non *nix platforms. Refer to http://httpd.apache.org/docs-2.0/new_features_2_0.html. I do *all* of my web development (in both PHP and ASP) on Windows and then post them to both Unix and Windows servers that support both languages on each platform, with very little, if any, modifications being needed.

Without this turning into an arguement which would never be won as we both have our own opinions, you mentioned in your post that you prefer ASP because it's Visual Basic and you haven't even tried PHP? Let me ask which of the big commercial programs (take your pick of any) have been written in VB? Since you mentioned you haven't even tried PHP, and do not get me wrong as I do repect your opinion, perhaps you should at least have some experience with all of the languages before you bash one you have no experience with. With that, this topic was started for advice on which language to use, not for users to argue over which they prefer. If you wish to continue this debate, start a new thread if you don't mind.

PiMPiN

[Gumboot]

I wrote my first ASP.NET page a few days ago. It was a web page showing all the programmes currently showing on TV (and what is on next). It worked by screen-scraping the information for the entire day off another web page (here), caching it, generating a table of what's on and getting the page to update itself when necessary. About 100 lines of C# and HTML. I was very impressed at the utter simplicity of it all.

ASP.NET rocks! :D

[robinmthomas]

Hey PiMPiN

Why would we start another forum thread? The name of this one is perfect: ASP, JSP, or PHP???

And in response to your other statement:

".... this topic was started for advice on which language to use, not for users to argue over which they prefer..."

Isn't that what he was asking? If there was a clear cut answer the question would be asked. He wants people opinions and he wants to know why people think the way they do.

I qoute iUk:

"....PHP will lose each time to a compiled ASP.Net page..."

ASP.NET is radically different from ASP. Your posting implied that VB wasn't a real language. I am assuming you are saying C/C++ is. Well, why wouldn't you write you ASP.NET in C++ then.

ASP.NET currently support 4 languages with more in development. Then you can write it in whatever you want.

Yes, I have never tried PHP, but I have used Java and C++. Visual basic has the easiest learning curve which is why I recammended it for someone who learning.

[zivan56]

to robinmthomas

You dont know what your talking about, if you were smart you would know that that is SSI and not ASP. And regarding the comment about Apache horrible on win32, it is totally false as I have been running PHP/Apache/MySQL for over a year and not problem so far, the server is 450mhz and takes less than 2 secs to generate a PHPBB2 page.

[robinmthomas]

I was making a comment in reference to your comment about how easy it is to include a file.

zivan56 you are an idiot.

The following qoute exists on the apache homepage:

"Warning: Apache on NT has not yet been optimized for performance. Apache still performs best, and is most reliable on Unix platforms" --- http://httpd.apache.org/docs/windows.html

You are a complete idiot to make a statement like that without researching it.

And as for your statement: "server is 450mhz and takes less than 2 secs to generate a PHPBB2 page."

Who cares? What relevance does that have? That isn't relevant unless you are comparing that exact same content in ASP.

[zivan56]

Who need research when you have cold hard facts. Live with it!

And the fact that it says that on your page does not mean you cant optimise apache, it can be make to run faster on Windows in some cases. And you specifically said this was ASP:

By the way, I can beat that.

Here is how it works in ASP.

[robinmthomas]

Did you read my posting? Did you both to look at the link? Maybe you don't under URLs, but did you at least click to see where the link goes.....I help you figure it out. THE APACHE SITE.

They are the ones making that statement, not me! It isn't on my web site.

So do us a favor and shut up. I am stick of arguing. Go back to your linux user group and read man pages or recompile your kernal.

.NET is going to change the way we use the Internet and I think it is going to be very exciting.

[zivan56]

I hate arguing but your stupidity if forcing me to. I know for a fact that you can make a high performance Win32 server, it is true that it does not work as well as under win32, but you can tweak that, have you ever considered people download the Apache source code and modify it for max performance? the main point is that you are claiming somthing is ASP when it is really not. As for

Go back to your linux user group and read man pages or recompile your kernal.

I am not sure where you got this idea, I am taking about win32 and not *nix. As for

.NET is going to change the way we use the Internet and I think it is going to be very exciting.

I totally agree with you, it will also revolutionise the way you pay for it :D . You cant really argue against the two since PHP is completely free, and ASP is not, that may mean it is more developed or the opposite. But I see lots of money that can be put to use on hardware, rather than the operating system and stuff. And since you mention the Apache site, perhapse you didnt see this

[robinmthomas]

One Question: How many times have you compiled the apache source code?

A better question might be: How many times have you modified the source code and then compiled it?

My guess is probably never, you just read about it and figure it was no big deal.

As for the ASP statement. Fine, it is a Server Side include, not ASP.

As for the linux comment, the average user doesn't recompile anything, because they don't need/want/have to. Only linux people are obsessed with recompiling apps.

As for the .NET statement. Microsoft, as well as some other companies, is directly responsibile for the advancement of the internet. Don't worry I won't say they "invented" it. They saw an opportunity and then they developed it and developed their products around it.

Anyway, I thought all Canadian were educated, but apparently not.