Why can't Linux agree on a universal install?


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Bearded Kirklander

I am messing with Mandrake 10 and am still bummed that you can't just download new programs or patches and have them self-execute and install. WHY can't Linux do like Windows and even OS X and have one universal, automatic install/update type of thing? Linux is so promising, but things like this just freak me out. Anybody?

Thanks,

BK

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nuka_t

cause then noobs will be able to use it. im bummed out too, and am having problems. however, well get used to it soon enough. if you want easy installations, use lindows.

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markjensen

The better answer is that:

  • Diversity breeds competition, and therefore a struggle to improve to be the best.
  • Different people have different preferences and needs.
  • Viruses and worms take advantage of the "sameness" of every system to propogate themselves.
  • Viruses, worms and spyware also rely on the 'automatically executeable' feature of Windows to wreak havoc on their owners.

Just off the top of my head.

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Nichotin

Use a good package system, and your install problems will go away. My personal favourites is ports (FreeBSD) and pacman (Arch Linux)

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Liebe
Just format now.

genius! hahahah

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ThunderRiver

That's why I don't like to use Linux as much. I prefer ports from BSD system, so much better and easier. Nonetheless, I like the seamless installation in Windows the best.

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markjensen
I like the seamless installation in Windows the best.

It's a matter of preference.

Seamless also means choice-less. Plus doesn't include a lot of apps you get in Linux (like an Office suite). CD swaps, reboots, and EULAs all over the place. :x

I haven't tried any BSD variants, yet. It's on my 'to do' list, though. ;)

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nuka_t

not reeally choiceless. in a good installer, you can chose exacltly what you want installed where yo uwant it installed.

i think that openoffice and all that included with linux is supersweet. its impossible to ever be productive with a "windows live cd" but with linux, you can browse the web, do powerpoints, chat and a whole bunch of other stuff OOB.

cd swaps-thats only for the big apps like games. i wouldnt necceseraly say thats a disadvantage, cause thats not windows fault. reboots are becoming less common

EULA-i actually prefer the eula's in windows to the ones in linux, even though there are much much less in linux. the think is, in windows you can press ok without having to even look at it. when installing something from the console in linux, you have to scroll through the whole thing, which is pretty much a waste of time.

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markjensen

I have to disagree with you on this, nuka_t.

Windows *is* choiceless. You MUST install the luna graphical environment. You MUST intall IE. You MUST install WMP....

And as far as disk swapping goes, my mother-in-law just bought a new DELL. It came with 12 (I kid you not!) CD/DVDs for the system. Recovery DVD, WordPerfect, Modem driver, Monitor CD, plenty of others that take up a big stack. Does her computer have 3 times the programs or features of my 4-CD Fedora set? No. In fact, she cannot run a webserver, ftpserver, or many other things that are just included in a standard Linux distro.

For a Linux distro install, there is only ONE EULA. The GPL license to prevent anyone from restricting the freedoms of Linux from anyone else. It guarantees the open-ness of Linux, and is VERY important. Most people don't read (and don't WANT to read) the Microsoft EULAs. Good reason not to. It shows you that you may have the PC in front of you, but Microsoft reserves the right to determine what is loaded on your system, and may choose to install things without your knowledge or permission. :pinch:

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nuka_t

were talking about two different things here. installing "windows" is choicelss, but installing "apps" in windows is good.

lol, thats funny. my emachines came with i htink two or three, and they were just a full backup recovery thing.

Edit: oh, andi forgot to mention, programs in windows that require a reboot do NOT get windows logo certification. that means any program thats worth its beans does not require a reboot.

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markjensen
Edit: oh, andi forgot to mention, programs in windows that require a reboot do NOT get windows logo certification. that means any program thats worth its beans does not require a reboot.

Good thing that doesn't apply to Microsoft updates! :D

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matt95110

If Linux hopes to become a real alternative to Windows, then they are going to have to change. They have to start making it easier to use, because I wouldn't feel comfortable putting a Linux computer in front of my parents, because they wouldn't know what to do. Thing is, if Linux started to become more like Windows in the way that it operates, then the diehard enthusiasts would be in a complete uproar. I doubt there will be a way to please everybody on this, but thats why we have so many distros to choose from today.

As for me, I have no problems installing programs on my Debian installation, but thats because I've been using it for so long.

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Bearded Kirklander

I'm not talking about the initial install. I'm only talking about new program downloads and updates/patches. I should have made that clear. Sorry about that.

BTW, I do think Windows Update is one thing Microsoft has really done right.

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DrunkenMaster

No.... you're all wrong!!!!

They NEED to make it difficult therwise:

1) No bragging rights for being able to use Linux;

2) Since the main way to make money on Linux is consulting, making the products easier to use is contradictory.

3) The best format will win. An "Emerge" type system might win over RPM, TGZ, etc since, for example, FreeBSD has mostly settled on the ports collection for upgrading.

I like "1" and "2" but "3" is most likely possible ;)

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CaKeY

I think windows update is pretty feeble compaired to emerge, apt or urpmi or actually. :/

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Rockett15

:yes: indeed on windows update.. it's not updating all programmes.. just windows/microsoft stuff

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markjensen
They have to start making it easier to use, because I wouldn't feel comfortable putting a Linux computer in front of my parents, because they wouldn't know what to do.

I have the opposite situation with my parents. Of course, they are nearly to 60 years old, and a bit set in their ways...

I am "tech support" for my parents. And, over the phone, no less! Trying to get them to clean out spyware or update their virus protection, and countless other unspeakable acts is frustrating.

I could set up a bulletproof Linux system to do web browsing and emails (which is all they really use), and have a LOT less headaches. They don't want Linux because it is different, and they think it is hard. Yes. I showed them Knoppix. They said it was slow, and it didn't look the same. :no:

However, my 9 year old son is comfortable with Linux or Windows.

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moeburn

Are there any Linux operating systems that make it easy to install programs downloaded off the internet? Thats the only gripe i have of linux. Other than that, the only reason i won't switch is because more people don't make drivers/apps for it.

Oh, and Mandrake totally fubared my partition table to a point of no recovery. I learned alot when fixing it though! :)

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markjensen

If you get a yum or apt type of system, it will help. There are versions of apt for most distros. Then you can get synaptic, that runs on top of apt as a gui front-end.

It makes things much easier. (Y)

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ThunderRiver
No.... you're all wrong!!!!

They NEED to make it difficult therwise:

1) No bragging rights for being able to use Linux;

2) Since the main way to make money on Linux is consulting, making the products easier to use is contradictory.

3) The best format will win. An "Emerge" type system might win over RPM, TGZ, etc since, for example, FreeBSD has mostly settled on the ports collection for upgrading.

I like "1" and "2" but "3" is most likely possible ;)

I take it that you are just joking around.

The point is that if you don't make things easier, less people want to try it out.

Bragging is useless. You will be the only person touting how great Linux is, and yet you are not helping people making smooth transition.

Bragging Geek == Jerk

The best format will win? I doubt it as the way of open source community works and never desires to reach any agreement.

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cpugeniusmv

out of all the software installation systems for *nix, my favorite is by far FreeBSD ports...

it's so simple! and it's so clean!!

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glitch409
I am messing with Mandrake 10 and am still bummed that you can't just download new programs or patches and have them self-execute and install. WHY can't Linux do like Windows and even OS X and have one universal, automatic install/update type of thing? Linux is so promising, but things like this just freak me out. Anybody?

Thanks,

BK

because all the linux manufactures dont work together to solve problems, thats the jist of it ;)

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Zerosleep

People see a command line and get scared. It's true. Updating with swaret or something is damn well better than any update service that MS will provide.

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Bearded Kirklander
People see a command line and get scared. It's true. Updating with swaret or something is damn well better than any update service that MS will provide.

Command line is fine, but you should only have to execute one file and not manually install libraries, do additional compilations, etc. You should be able to run one executable and have it do all that is needed for you, much like Windows does. That is what I'm trying to get at.

Heck, I still use Midnight Commander (LOVE IT!) but man, all these libraries and other things to mess with is just a pain.

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