"Betrayed" by Bush

[neo1980]

"Betrayed" by Bush

Rattled by government raids on their homes and American support for Israel in the Middle East's escalating violence, American Muslims rethink their 2000 endorsement of the president.

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By Eric Boehlert

April 2, 2002 |

During the 2000 election, for the first time, Muslim-American organizations urged constituents to vote as a bloc. They were attracted to George W. Bush's televised pledge during the second campaign debate to do away with secret evidence often used against Muslim immigrants by prosecutors. They hoped he could bring a fresh perspective to the troubles in the Middle East. They found him more willing to meet with Muslims during the campaign than Vice President Al Gore.

And so the Muslim community's umbrella groups, aiming to win some clout, urged America's estimated 6 million Muslims (the exact number is in dispute) to vote for Bush. And according to internal polls, they did in overwhelming numbers -- and played a crucial role, for instance, in Bush's victory in Florida.

Today, they may be wondering what their votes accomplished. Many Muslims have been watching the unfolding war on terrorism at home with growing concern since Sept. 11. They were worried when the government refused to release the identities of more than 1000 foreigners, mostly Arab or Muslim, detained by law enforcement; disturbed when deportation trials were held in secret; upset when federal agents fanned out across the country to interview thousands of young Muslim foreigners; and troubled when U.S.-based Islamic charities were raided during Ramadan by government agents seeking evidence of terrorist ties.

Courtesy:

[neo1980]

Bush's foreign policy catastrophe

The bumbling and arrogance of the administration has made the Middle East -- and the world -- a more dangerous place.

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By Gary Kamiya

April 2, 2002 | The Bush administration's foreign policy is in shambles. Each passing day in the Middle East brings new horrors, new bloodshed, new hatred. And it isn't just the Middle East: The bankruptcy of the Republican administration's approach, not just to the most explosive and strategically crucial region in the world, but to foreign policy in general, has become impossible to ignore. In a little over a year in office, Bush has allowed the Israeli-Palestinian crisis to explode from a small brush fire to a raging conflagration; squandered the global goodwill toward the United States after Sept. 11; set back the cause of moderates in Iran with a comic-book invocation of "evil"; endangered key allies in South Korea, Saudi Arabia and Egypt; failed to pursue vital peacekeeping and nation-building efforts in Afghanistan; clumsily pushed the Arab world into greater solidarity with Saddam Hussein; put forward a potentially dangerous new first-use nuclear doctrine; and filled our European allies with contempt and rage at our heavy-handed unilateralism. The Bush administration is rapidly staking a claim as one of the most incompetent foreign policy presidencies in the post-World War II era.

[spanky]

it's nothing new, his pandering to groups like this obviously worked...if more Americans took their right to vote more seriously and weren't so damn fickle, we wouldn't have an idiot like Bush in office.

His "I'm just a good ol' boy" bull**** may fly here in the U.S., but reality is that it doesn't fly anywhere else on earth and we need a president that has a clear understanding of what's going on in the rest of world. We don't need some goofball that has to be schooled on things that he should already know.

[ZoGg]

I really don't believe it would make a difference who was president right now as far as how America?s policies toward the middle east and the rest of the world would change after Sept 11. This is history moving in the direction its going to move and has more to do with money than politics.

The fact that a war is about to occur is not a secret, there has been a very well publicized arms build up over the last year by the Palestinians. But who paid for this? The U.S. is making no secret that we are going to take out Sadam.

What people fail to see is the overall picture. The Arab world is threatened by the West because of its growing influence in world trade. The U.S. and Russia are moving closer to each other as far as trading partners and becoming close trade partners will eventually lead to a new oil export agreement between the two countries, possibly with a new pipeline going straight through Afghanistan. Russia is cash starved and needs capital to fix the mess that communism has left and does not care that they are undercutting prices.

This is a direct threat to the true power in the Middle East, Saudi

Arabia and Iran. Both countries control politics in the Middle East through there spending of money. Both make there money through there control of the oil cartel OPEC. Both have been stirring up anti-American themes in the Arab world and financing terrorism, Iran through direct state sponsored terrorism and the Saudi's through individuals and private groups. Israel is just a vise they can use against the West. They don't give a dam for the plight of Palestinians. The U.S. has done more for the Palestinians than all the Arab countries combined.

Why is this?

Because peace benefits the U.S. Its good for trade. The only benefit it provides the Arab world is a human weapon. Sadam Hussein has personally vowed to give $25,000 dollars to each family that loses a member because they carried out a suicide attack against Israel.

The Sept 11 attacks on the U.S. was very well planed and financed. Both countries directly influence what occurs and why when it comes to terrorism.

Bashing Bush is just playing into the propaganda that the Arab world is using. The fact that Bush was the one to get elected was to the benefit of the same people who invent this propaganda. They can use the traditional right wing bashing - antiwar theme

that the left in the West has used to divide us. If Gore had won, I am sure that we would have gone the same direction that Bush is going now; perhaps even stronger to show he is not week in foreign policy.

[Mozart]

What a surprise, Salon attacking President Bush. What took the liberals so long?

This is all part of an organized campaign to undermine President Bush's popularity for the upcoming elections and blame him personally for the attacks on September 11. Left-wingers have no conscience or soul.

Anyone opposed to the Israeli crackdown must obviously endorse terrorism. I believe that any nation has a right to defend itself from continual terror attacks and I will not condone terrorism for any reason.

Saudi Arabia would not let the U.S. use it's base in the area for striking at Bin Laden. With "friends" like that, who needs enemies?

The Muslim world hates the west and sees us as the "Infidel". This was not caused by Bush, Clinton or any other president. It is taught in Muslim schools. A 20/20 interview last week made this quite clear.

Some facts:

-most of the September 11 terrorists are Saudis

-Osama Bin Laden is a Saudi

-Iran has and is supporting terrorism

-Afghanistan is 1000% better off then before 911

-many in the Muslim world believe the 911 attack was a Jewish-CIA conspiracy

-the Palestinian authority does not want peace*

*The proof of this last point was found today. A direct connection between the Palestinian authority and terrorism.

To blame any of this on President Bush is insane.

[neo1980]

Some facts:

-most of the September 11 terrorists are Saudis

-Osama Bin Laden is a Saudi

-Iran has and is supporting terrorism

-Afghanistan is 1000% better off then before 911

-many in the Muslim world believe the 911 attack was a Jewish-CIA conspiracy

-the Palestinian authority does not want peace*

*The proof of this last point was found today. A direct connection between the Palestinian authority and terrorism.

. [/b]

-Doesnt mean every Saudi man woman and child is a terrorist

-Osama`s own family and SA disowned him in 1995

-Agreed but Karzaii condemns ISraels occupation

-only 1 % muslims polled from State poll inst believed that

-Sharon's government not only doesnt want peace, it doesnt want any palestinian in "thier" land

-EU, African UN council, Russian UN and Chinese UN consulate have concieved that those are forgeries because all documents from Al-Aqsa Martyrs brigade have thier name in Arabic, never in English or Hebrew in all documents not to the PLO but to any other organisation. thus another Sharon ploy

[neo1980]

Originally posted by ZoGg

Bashing Bush is just playing into the propaganda that the Arab world is using. The fact that Bush was the one to get elected was to the benefit of the same people who invent this propaganda. They can use the traditional right wing bashing - antiwar theme

that the left in the West has used to divide us. If Gore had won, I am sure that we would have gone the same direction that Bush is going now; perhaps even stronger to show he is not week in foreign policy.

mind you president bush has the lowest IQ of all previous presidents, except for the WW2 US president who condoned the Nuclear bomb use and thus started a chain for other countries to use it and was the one who ordered Japanese civilian americans to be rounded up in concentration camps, Its not only the Arab world, its the whole world except Israel, everyone has supported the US on the war in Afghanistan but only Israel, Britian and US want a strike in Iraq, which still has the regime which US tried to take out and still hasnt and instead has imposed sanctions on the people of Iraq thus makeing Sadam more popular among the people because he is defiant under the sanctions, even though they are dying and can only get medicine only when iraq gives them oil, isnt there any Irony there.

[Miran]

If you ask me, ALL american presidents and ALL american people need to mind their own business. What happens over there has nothing to do with anyone here. We live in 2 separate worlds. It was america that caused 911 and it will be america that will cause the next one. This is not to say that 911 was justified, it was horribly barbaric and wrong, but point blank if america hadn't of screwed with afghanistan and the middle east in the first place, then 911 would just be another date. You need to remember what america was built on. It was built on a laissez-faire philosophy - "America's business is business" and so forth. If muslims and jews want to waste each other, let them - they'll figure it out in the end, just like america and britain did (recall the middle ages, spanish inquisition, child slayings, etc). The middle east (and Africa for that matter) do NOT benefit AT ALL from outside influence whether in the form of starvation relief or world vision or invading forces. They will NOT learn if they always have someone to pick them up. A child never learns to swim if he won't get in. The sooner America (including UN) pulls the hell out of afghanistan, africa, kosovo, etc the quicker they can prevent another incident like 911.

[Miran]

"-Afghanistan is 1000% better off then before 911 "

If you consider another little america with a McDonalds and 711 on the corner better then you can go to hell. America and the agriculturalist revolution that began 5000 years ago is a sick excuse for life. People forget that our way of life, or egalitarian ideals are all EXTREMELY new and DO NOT WORK. The world worked for tens of thousands of years without crap like computers and safeway. Why do we think it is so wonderful - we are scared to think any other way. The world to us was not human until when? 5000 years ago. The world was devoid of major monotheist religions until when? 5000 years ago.

If you went up to any "tribal" or "backwards" culture in the amazon, africa, or wherever who has had minimal contact with our agriculturalist vision and say "I know how to save you, follow me" they would have NO GODDAMNED CLUE what you are talking about. Why? They have no need. This was the same 5000 years ago. People lived, people laughed and died and were happy. It is a foolish vision to imagine that we can patch this leaky bucket of a society with plugs like recycling and CRAP LIKE THAT. As "B" said, we don't need the OLD vision and NEW programs, we need a NEW vision and NO programs.

[h71y6]

Originally posted by Mozart

The Muslim world hates the west and sees us as the "Infidel". This was not caused by Bush, Clinton or any other president. It is taught in Muslim schools. A 20/20 interview last week made this quite clear.

The Muslim world? What do YOU know about Muslims? What DO you know about their religion and their teachings? And where the hell did you get the notion that hatred towards the west are taught in Muslim schools? Spare us your twisted and biased view of subjects and areas that you are apparently ignorant to.

[h71y6]

Originally posted by ZoGg

I really don't believe it would make a difference who was president right now as far as how America?s policies toward the middle east and the rest of the world would change after Sept 11. This is history moving in the direction its going to move and has more to do with money than politics.

The fact that a war is about to occur is not a secret, there has been a very well publicized arms build up over the last year by the Palestinians. But who paid for this? The U.S. is making no secret that we are going to take out Sadam.

What people fail to see is the overall picture. The Arab world is threatened by the West because of its growing influence in world trade. The U.S. and Russia are moving closer to each other as far as trading partners and becoming close trade partners will eventually lead to a new oil export agreement between the two countries, possibly with a new pipeline going straight through Afghanistan. Russia is cash starved and needs capital to fix the mess that communism has left and does not care that they are undercutting prices.

This is a direct threat to the true power in the Middle East, Saudi

Arabia and Iran. Both countries control politics in the Middle East through there spending of money. Both make there money through there control of the oil cartel OPEC. Both have been stirring up anti-American themes in the Arab world and financing terrorism, Iran through direct state sponsored terrorism and the Saudi's through individuals and private groups. Israel is just a vise they can use against the West. They don't give a dam for the plight of Palestinians. The U.S. has done more for the Palestinians than all the Arab countries combined.

Why is this?

Because peace benefits the U.S. Its good for trade. The only benefit it provides the Arab world is a human weapon. Sadam Hussein has personally vowed to give $25,000 dollars to each family that loses a member because they carried out a suicide attack against Israel.

The Sept 11 attacks on the U.S. was very well planed and financed. Both countries directly influence what occurs and why when it comes to terrorism.

Bashing Bush is just playing into the propaganda that the Arab world is using. The fact that Bush was the one to get elected was to the benefit of the same people who invent this propaganda. They can use the traditional right wing bashing - antiwar theme

that the left in the West has used to divide us. If Gore had won, I am sure that we would have gone the same direction that Bush is going now; perhaps even stronger to show he is not week in foreign policy. b>

OMG, That made a lot of sense. I had never thought of it that way b4. I have to get more info on this matter.

[Mozart]

president bush has the lowest IQ of all previous presidents

If you can prove this statement, I will withdraw all of my comments that I have made on this thread. On the other hand if you are quoting a "prank email" sent to millions to sway public opinon, you are intentionally spreading false and misleading information. There is more about this email here:

http://www.snopes2.com/index.html

The world worked for tens of thousands of years without crap like computers and safeway

Huh?:alien:

The oldest civilization know is about 10,000 years old, give or take. Ask the women in Afghanistan if things are better. You couldn't ask them before, they weren't allowed to talk.

[Mozart]

The Muslim world? What do YOU know about Muslims?

I know what I see. I see terror bombings every day. I see terrorism condoned by Muslim leaders. I see Muslim clerics teaching hatred towards Jews.

you are apparently ignorant

What do you know about me? How old am I? What schools did I attend?

If you disagree with me, fine. If you attack me, I'll fight back.

[IceHawk]

Originally posted by h71y6

The Muslim world? What do YOU know about Muslims? What DO you know about their religion and their teachings? And where the hell did you get the notion that hatred towards the west are taught in Muslim schools? Spare us your twisted and biased view of subjects and areas that you are apparently ignorant to.

It's been said in the news (as if that's reliable) that hatred for the west has been ingrained into Palestinian children. Evidence supports that theory though.

Originally posted by Mozart

If you can prove this statement, I will withdraw all of my comments that I have made on this thread. On the other hand if you are quoting a "prank email" sent to millions to sway public opinon, you are intentionally spreading false and misleading information. There is more about this email here:

http://www.snopes2.com/index.html

Isn't it obvious that he isn't the brightest bulb in the pack?

[superbeast]

This is funny. First and foremost, a disclaimer;

This post may offend some people. That is not my intent. I merely wish to point out a few beliefs of my own.

If you believe President Bush has the second lowest IQ in U.S. history, you are mistaken.

President Bush was born July 6, 1946, and grew up in Midland and Houston, Texas. He received a bachelor's degree from Yale University and a Master of Business Administration from Harvard Business School. He served as an F-102 pilot for the Texas Air National Guard before beginning his career in the oil and gas business in Midland in 1975, working in the energy industry until 1986

Have you ever tried to get into Harvard? Even if someone has connections, it takes ALOT of hard work and smarts to get through with a degree, much less a Masters degree. Al Gore doesn't seem to have a degree in anything...wonder what he was doing all those years Bush was at Harvard? (Actually, he was working on his father's tobacco farm, which alot of his supporters seem to ignore or forget).

Plus, a fighter pilot is not some cush job. It takes brains and leadership ability, regardless of who your father is. It's so strange that so many boys want to grow up and be pilots or astronauts, yet so very few become either. Why is that? If it's so easy you'd think everyone would be doing it.

And the last word on Bush: although the Oil industry is portrayed as a bunch of 'good old boys', it is actually the underlying force in the worlds economy. I worked in the oil industry for years, and it leads the way in new technology. That video card you're using? The tech for it was used in oil first. The plastics used to make up your life? All from oil. Some of the smartest people I know are in oil-> it's an extremely challenging industry that few people would last a day in.

As for my fellow Earthlings living outside the great country of The United States of America, I can't help but wonder why you follow in the path of false hope.

Hope that your culture will endure.

Hope that your hatred will win the day.

Hope that your values will last beyond the next century...

The U.S. way of life is the next step in the cultural evolution of mankind. We absorb other cultures, improving them and combining them, making them our own. Our culture is more flexible than any to have ever existed.

I think it's funny that people really want to start wars with the only nation to ever use an atomic device against another nation. Didn't we get everyone's attention with Little Boy and Fat Man? Didn't anyone consider what the Japanese learned?

It just doesn't make sense to me. Regardless of your moral or ethical background, history has shown time and again that might makes right. You don't have to like it, but you may come to accept it, heaven help you. You can't fight the realities of life.

Candid had it all right, but was forever so wrong...

[xEonBuRn]

The U.S. has always supported Israel... Democrat or Republican... why is it any different with Bush in office?

[uiop]

whoever said that the U.S. should mind its own business is a fool.

You can attempt to do that, but all this world's S**T will come right back to you one day or another, so you might as well deal with it as it begins to bubble.

I am Israeli, and up till now i understood the palestinian side, but not anymore. I am sick of this ugly looking, shaky, old, and did i mension ugly Arafat who (as proved a few days ago with documents) is directly connected to terroristic acts.

Its sad how a few billion dollars the US gave the PLO to enable them to build an economic infrastructure go to terrorism and its people go hungry ... if you don't think that on its own is a wrong, then you should take a hard look around because we probably aren't gonna be here soon.

[h71y6]

Originally posted by IceHawk

It's been said in the news (as if that's reliable) that hatred for the west has been ingrained into Palestinian children. Evidence supports that theory though.

You just proved my point. You said Palestinian children. Ok. So does that cover the majority of "Muslims", that resides in Indonesia, Malaysia etc? Remember, he said Muslim schools. Now if he said "schools under the direct influence of terrorists", then i agree. But if he generalize and stereotype, that's uncalled for and is in fact, again, ignorant. It's not an attack, just a revelation.

[h71y6]

Originally posted by Mozart

I know what I see. I see terror bombings every day. I see terrorism condoned by Muslim leaders. I see Muslim clerics teaching hatred towards Jews.

What you see, bud, is what the media shows you of a nation in trouble.

What you don't see, bud, is that it is in fact isolated to that nation alone, or even less.

I spent the half of my life in a "Muslim" country. I studied in classes consisting of three different races, most consists of Muslim people. Do they hate Jews as you say? No. Do the clerics teach hatred? No. In fact, they teach peace. The Muslim religion is a very peaceful religion in nature. Just because a few bad apples decided to use it to fuel fanaticism isn't a reasonable ground to stereotype them as "terrorists". Please, remove that foot from your mouth and brain from your arse before you decide to hate Muslim people. What help are you to anyone if you're not willing to survey and understand the situation? Are you going to tell me you know more about the Muslim people than i do?Please!

[Mozart]

It is taught in Muslim schools. A 20/20 interview last week made this quite clear.

Generalizations can be made in many facets of life. These generalizations need not be racist and hateful or ignorant but used to make or prove a point.

Examples:

-Most people in Japan are under 7 feet tall.

-Most Australians speak English.

-Most NSYNC fans are under 65

...I could go on.

When I said that hatred for the west is taught in Muslim schools, I didn't mean every single Muslim school in every corner of the world. But would you deny that it is a common practice in Muslim schools in the Middle-East to teach hatred? To argue this point is moot. Recently while the Israelis and Palestinians prepared for peace talks, Palestinian terrorists continually bombed civilians in Israel. One would have to be blind or ignorant to be oblivious of this.

[neo1980]

Mozart, Im a muslim, do u think i am a terrorist? do u think i get taught hatred? no.. u know why i think u think that, because thats what those right wing 700 club hypocryts say all the time, if u live with the muslims maybe ur perception will change, but i guess just like 2 percent of muslims have been brainwashed into terrorism, you have been as well with the rhetorical media

[Mozart]

I have no hatred for Muslim people. My country has a substantial Muslim population. Unlike countries like Saudi Arabia, my country practices something called toleration. Again, you attack me because you disagree with my point of view.

When you hear that "a terorrist today blew himself up and killed 20 other people" are you surprised it is a Muslim? Really?

The people who destroyed the World Trade Center and murdered over 3000 people had one thing in common. Can you guess what that is?

[neo1980]

did Saudi Arabia say NO to attacks to Afghanistan as compared to Israel incursing into Palestinian area`s no, because Osama bin Laden himself wants to overthrow the saudi government, what are u talking about, you dont even know middle east or eastern politics, u know why, cuz u havent gone their, your perception is that there is hatred for humanity over there and they only ride on camels and carry swords, thats ur perception, if you go to Saudi Arabia, UAE, Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon maybe you will find out where your heads been going wrong

[aco Veteran]

Originally posted by Mozart

If you disagree with me, fine. If you attack me, I'll fight back.

No you won't. At the first sign of "fighting" against another member this thread will be closed.

[Mozart]

Mozart, Im a muslim, do u think i am a terrorist?

No, I think you are an apologist. You started this thread with an article that attacked President Bush as being responsible for the situation in the Middle-East. The Israeli-Palestinian situation is this: two groups of people who hate each other trying to occupy the same land. Will this ever work. No.

To compare the 700 Club with Muslim exremists is foolish. How many people did Pat Robertson kill?

To ignore the fact that there is a dangerous element of Muslim extremists in the Middle-East is to condone terrorism.

I am against terrorism no matter what reason, no matter who is involved.