Who wants to help make a game?

[Gurm]

Ok folks, I'm working on a game.

I'm dead serious about this.

It's going to be a new MMOG, but unlike Evercrack or Ultima Offline it will be 100% dynamic (using technology based loosely on MUDs and MOOs). No more stagnant economy, or level dichotomy. No more waiting 6 months for new areas to open up. No more paying for a new expansion once a year.

I need a team of dedicated (and slightly insane) individuals.

I need programmers, artists, level designers, game designers, and of course testers (alpha testers for now, there will be an open beta later of course!) of all varieties.

This is an exciting possibility. Am I crazy? Entirely possible. But at the very least we're gonna give this thing our best shot.

Imagine a game universe where things change continually. New construction happens on a regular basis - daily or weekly new areas will open up.

Imagine having ALL the game players online whenever they want to be. No more "pick a server near you".

Imagine being able to make permanent changes to the game world. You set off a bomb, it blows up a building... the building stays blown up until someone fixes it.

Current direction of the game:

- One persistent universe. Yes, there will be multiple servers. But everyone is on all at once. The servers will represent different virtual aspects of the game world. Some servers will run NPC's exclusively, some will run geography (dungeons, etc.), some will provide other functionality.

- Graphics will be reminiscent of Baldur's Gate or DiZablo. 2D sprites with a 3D top-down isometric style.

- Game style is likely to be traditional swords-n-sorcery, although we might move it towards a more Final Fantasy-esque "steam powered" world. Not 100% sure yet, of course.

- Development language is pure Java. Not crapplet Java but real 100% honest-to-god-this-is-a-kickass-language Java.

Additional questions or comments? Direct 'em my way.

[email protected] (mail and MSN messenger)

gurm42 (AIM and Yahoo messenger)

453460 (ICQ)

- Gurm

[mugs]

you are a psycho

[iconman]

Great Idea,

I can be a beta tester :D

[Jessterw]

That is a kickass idea, and yes you are insane :s, but this appeals to me. I'm not proficient in Java (in fact I hate it lol), but I would definately be up for helping in any other way.

I like the concept because I've had this yearning for an online world where there wouldn't be just on set world or series of maps, but instead it would be a connected set of user created and original maps that can link to each other, much like web pages do today. Of course this could end up becoming somewhat surreal, I mean imagine walking through a door (say on the 12th floor of a building) and then being confronted with a grassy field. I always thought of it as a 3D first person world, but you get the gist.

[Gurm]

mugs,

Oh ye of little faith.

Why, praytell, do YOU think I'm a psycho? I know why I think so, but...

- Gurm

[KeR]

well if you really need help...I can do some artistic stuff if needed:D

[ILMagic]

Im also an artist... pm me if you want.

[Arpit]

don't know any java...or graphic programming...haven't done any computer art stuff in a while...but i'd love to be a part of this...(wherever a little insanity is needed ;))...i would like to do more than alpha/beta test (so i learn more stuff as i go along)...message me, and let me know what i can do to help...

[Ace_2000]

count me in

:rambo:

[Gurm]

And finally the responses begin to roll in.

Please don't be offended if I don't get back to you right away, but all of your help is welcomed.

I'll contact each of you soon.

- Gurm

[baphomet_irl Veteran]

do u know what engine ur gonna use for the 3D?

[Prasanth]

i think this should be on the programming forum

[Keldyn]

I think its ok where it is. He is not asking any technical questions that deal with programming as of yet. Right now its more general discussion about games. later i may move it but its cool for now....

[Prasanth]

Originally posted by Keldyn

I think its ok where it is. He is not asking any technical questions that deal with programming as of yet. Right now its more general discussion about games. later i may move it but its cool for now....

keldyn if this is moved to the programming forum more programmers will see this:)

[Keldyn]

Originally posted by prasanth16

keldyn if this is moved to the programming forum more programmers will see this:)

Very well. Seeing as prasanth wont get any sleep tonite until i move this thread, i have decided to oblige. Happy prasanth !? :cheeky:

moved to programming

~Keldyn

[h71y6]

Originally posted by Gurm

- Development language is pure Java. Not crapplet Java but real 100% honest-to-god-this-is-a-kickass-language Java.

You are gonna use Java? It's going to be slooooowwwww. But before i show my interest in your idea, do you have any examples of work you've done before?

[Gurm]

Haha, I know it will be "slow". The problem, of course, is that what I want to do cannot be done in a more conventional language such as C++ without adding layer upon layer of abstraction that will ALSO be "slow".

Unless something has changed, and someone has added dynamic class loading/unloading to C++ in the last year or so.

One of the linchpin technologies in this game engine is the ability to modify it while it's running... to add classes, remove classes, modify classes without stopping the engine.

In real-life terms, this equates to game updates while everyone is playing. In development terms this means that testing can occur while development occurs, on the same codebase, in realtime.

As for samples of my prior work, anything you'd be impressed with is under NDA, of course. Although my early 90's NDA's have probably expired... hmm, gotta check on that.

- Gurm

[Glowstick]

Verant is working, with the same idea of a changing world in their mind, on a game for like 2.5 years, and it's still not beta. It's called Starwars Galaxies if you're interested. And they've a team of 50-75 people.

[Vinh]

that would be a mad ass game!!!! and yes you are insane.

[Gurm]

Yeah but Verant is coming at it from the other side... from the "look a PC game with an updatable world that we are programming in C++" angle.

Whereas I am coming from the "look a scalable MUD with graphics that is pure Java and runs on any platform" side.

MUDs, if you remember, are often written by ... maybe 2 or 3 people. When in the full swing of things, big-ass MUDs like Tsunami only have perhaps 10 wizards. Maybe only one or two on at once... to support a user base of thousands.

Plus, Verant doesn't have what I have - willingness to tap the vast, untameable pool of raw talent on the Internet. I'm looking for help in boards filled with hackers, rebels, and what Ben Kenobi would call the "scum of the universe"... but which have the potential to turn out to be the Han Solos of gaming.

Ok, that was a BAD added paragraph of Star Wars puns. At any rate, you get my drift. I'm not reinventing the wheel. I'm shamelessly building on Lars Pensjo's work (with which I'm fairly familiar) and capitalizing on the strengths of Java in order to do something with relatively little programming that it would otherwise take a team of extremely talented network coders to implement.

And there's a reason I'm asking for help. While I can (and will) implement the core libraries, the game design itself will take substantially more people than just me.

- Gurm

[Tobbe]

Java? Are you nuts?

Do it in C++ with inline asm!

Use OpenGL...

By the way, OpenGL 2.0 are on it's way!

I don't think it's worth trying!

[h71y6]

Originally posted by Gurm

Haha, I know it will be "slow". The problem, of course, is that what I want to do cannot be done in a more conventional language such as C++ without adding layer upon layer of abstraction that will ALSO be "slow".

Unless something has changed, and someone has added dynamic class loading/unloading to C++ in the last year or so.

One of the linchpin technologies in this game engine is the ability to modify it while it's running... to add classes, remove classes, modify classes without stopping the engine.

In real-life terms, this equates to game updates while everyone is playing. In development terms this means that testing can occur while development occurs, on the same codebase, in realtime.

As for samples of my prior work, anything you'd be impressed with is under NDA, of course. Although my early 90's NDA's have probably expired... hmm, gotta check on that.

- Gurm

I was a big MMORPG player before and i know what you mean. But before you decide on Java, make sure the it's equal or faster or more practical than a C++ implementation in it.

[neowin_hipster]

What are the plans, directx, opengl, allegro, linux, win32. Java is nuts. Use c++, optimized, and asm. Games take professionals a year or two to make. Would this game be open soure. post it on sourceforge and get more help.

[Kanecorp]

i can alpha/beta test

[Gurm]

To those of you suggesting C++ with inline ASM, I do appreciate your input. Honestly...

However, as I said before it CAN'T BE DONE in C++. Not without reinventing the wheel. If you follow MUD history at all, it's like LPMud vs. MOO technology. LPMUD was a C-based interpreter for a "mudlib" which was written in LPC, an object-oriented extension of C. Sadly, the LPC code needed to be interpreted at runtime, which made it even slower than Java.

While this certainly CAN be done differently, the basic idea is to make the entire game one big codebase. Rooms, monsters, weapons, players - are all objects, descended from a basic game object. Where the objects live... Java doesn't care. Want to update an object? Sure... change the code, and tell the program "hey, reload CLASS X" and bingo - it's changed.

- Gurm

[Tobbe]

Originally posted by Gurm

To those of you suggesting C++ with inline ASM, I do appreciate your input. Honestly...

However, as I said before it CAN'T BE DONE in C++. Not without reinventing the wheel. If you follow MUD history at all, it's like LPMud vs. MOO technology. LPMUD was a C-based interpreter for a "mudlib" which was written in LPC, an object-oriented extension of C. Sadly, the LPC code needed to be interpreted at runtime, which made it even slower than Java.

While this certainly CAN be done differently, the basic idea is to make the entire game one big codebase. Rooms, monsters, weapons, players - are all objects, descended from a basic game object. Where the objects live... Java doesn't care. Want to update an object? Sure... change the code, and tell the program "hey, reload CLASS X" and bingo - it's changed.

- Gurm

You can't be serious! Why can't you use C++? I don't get the point. Who said anything about re-inventing the wheel?