Firefox VS Safari

[Elliott]

Surely it's not just because they don't like the thin ad bar in the free version.

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As far as I can tell, yes it is actually. Well, the rendering engine isn't too hot either, and it's kinda bloated.

And Chad, there is a difference in loading times. In terms of bounces, not really, but to get to an actual window, yea.

[allfive6]

Firefox :D

[fuzzy_logic]

It's not a question of what's possible; it's what's already available. We're comparing currently available versions of each product.

If Microsoft decided to support extensions, it would take no time for devs to come up with extensions for that either, considering the fact that it's still the most-used browser even today. Does that make the current version of IE any better than Firefox? Of course not; at least not in my opinion.

If you want to compare the two products taking future plans for each one into account, you should know that the Firefox devs have explicitly stated that Firefox will blend in much better with the native look-and-feel of OS X post-1.0. Apple, on the other hand, has made no claims that they plan to include support for third-party extensions to Safari.

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I was not comparing the future plans of the two browsers. I was simply stating that it's not right to say that Firefox is years ahead of safari.

[oik]

Don't forget cmd-v...or are you just going to copy it and not download it?  :rolleyes:

I don't care how much you use the keyboard...the contextual menu IS faster than hitting 4 keyboard combos.  Let's see right click (or cmd-click), then a left click to dl the image, or 4 keycombos with a couple "enter" hits in there.  Tough one.

584756087[/snapback]

if all i want to do is download an image, i'll drag it from the window to the desktop. no need to click more than once. it's like magic!

:sleep:

[oik]

If we're comparing load times, there's virtually no difference.  BUT...Safari, the app, slows down trememdously after some usage.  I'm not saying the page loading suffers, but the app as a whole is sluggish.

584756375[/snapback]

interesting, i've never noticed any lag in safari, and i don't quit safari. after nearly 4 days uptime, safari has been open and still runs at the same speed it did when i first opened it.

[tariq]

oik vs. kitten & chad :sleep:

i've tried omniweb and safari, and don't like either. omniweb is pretty innovative, but the rendering sucks and adblocking isn't as good as firefox (ads are replaced with image placeholders rather than not visible at all).

safari is okay, but there's no easy way to adblock (pithhelmet wtf) and you can't add search engines to the toolbar (where the google search is like omniweb or firefox).

until that stuff is worked out i can handle the non osx widgets and bland looks of firefox since it is far superior than any other browser

[Elliott]

can't add search engines to the toolbar (where the google search is like omniweb or firefox).

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http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/15495

[Redestium]

Any screen shots of the OS X version of FX?

[tariq]

http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/15495

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danke.

i tried out camino today after reading everyones suggestion, and its awesome! best of both worlds. gecko and osx. also, the adblocking works great and the serachbar lets you add in engines. move over firefox :)

[krmathis]

Any screen shots of the OS X version of FX?

584759859[/snapback]

Here you are! :D

Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20041015 Firefox/0.10

[Steve]

Does anyone mind pointing out what FireFox for Mac OS X, has feature wise that makes it better than Safari? I've not used in in a long time, but i don't recall it being anything massively different, unlike say OmniWeb 5...

So, anyone?

[tariq]

my main reasions for using firefox were

gecko rendering engine

adblocking and countless other extensions

integrated searchbar

since the last two can be implemented with safari, my only main beef with safari is that it doesn't render some websites properly

[Redestium]

Here you are! :D

Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20041015 Firefox/0.10

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Thanks. That looks pretty OSX-ish to me. :unsure:

[Chad]

Thanks.  That looks pretty OSX-ish to me.  :unsure:

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Oh it does. People will make excuses for anything

[Chad]

interesting, i've never noticed any lag in safari, and i don't quit safari.  after nearly 4 days uptime, safari has been open and still runs at the same speed it did when i first opened it.

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Thanks oik! You just changed my mind :rolleyes:

Does anyone mind pointing out what FireFox for Mac OS X, has feature wise that makes it better than Safari? I've not used in in a long time, but i don't recall it being anything massively different, unlike say OmniWeb 5...

So, anyone?

For me it was the speed. Firefox is nice a light, while Safari, is, one big bloated browser. FF is faster loading up, browsing with multiple tabs, etc etc. I guess I don't understand why people still use it when there are many better options.

[Elliott]

For me it was the speed.? Firefox is nice a light, while Safari, is, one big bloated browser.? FF is faster loading up, browsing with multiple tabs, etc etc.? I guess I don't understand why people still use it when there are many better options.

584762647[/snapback]

Wow, you really must've ****** up Safari. Mine runs faster than Firefox.

And yes, while that screenshot makes it look OS X-ish, out of box it is not (widgets on pages look extremely ugly). It also does not use real Cocoa, and you get this weird extra window when using Expos?.

[Fusion]

Hah!? He's improved it, but Safari still doesn't hold a candle to Firefox as far as being complient.? Gecko is ages ahead of khtml

Well if you'd actually try it the other way, you'd realize it's quite a bit faster.? Once you start downloading quite a few images, there's no contest.

Seriously...Safari isn't even close in the browser race anymore.? Apple crammed as much in there as they could, so now it's a bloated piece of a browser.? WELL behind firefox and Omniweb.? And seriously...why even bother with Camino?? Who cares if it uses the native OS X gui and Firefox doesn't?? Since when does your browser looking good come before function:rolleyes:rolleyes:

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Can you please expand on the compliancy that Safari is still missing? Every browser, no matter how good at rendering according to the W3C still has some issues, and I highly doubt that you have taken the time to sit down and compare the way Safari handles an element vs. the way that Firefox handles and element and then take that to compare with the W3C spec, mainly because the spec is so confusing hardly a human can read/understand it. Even if KHTML is behind Gecko, Safari isn't using straight KHTML, it is using WebKit, which is modified KHTML. I have not heard of or experienced any significant rendering issues in regards to standards on Safari. As far as I know, the browser follows the spec line by line. If you want to talk about backward compatibility, that's an entirely separate issue.

I never said anything about Safari and functionality.? I was mocking people who don't use firefox because it doesn't use the osx ui...so they choose looks over functionality...get it?

The difference between Firefox/Omniweb and Safari is HUUUUGE.? Safari hasn't been "light, fast and really much better than Firefox on OS X" since 1.0.? If you think so, you're just kidding yourself.? Each browser has a ton of features, but Firefox and Omniweb are years ahead of Safari in terms of what they have or what you could install (FF with extensions).? Sure, Safari has some nice features, but Apple decided they wanted to go with a browser with some stuff in it, and sacrifice the nice, light browser they started out with.? Sure, they could have both, but they don't.? Safari is a pos browser.? They probably COULD make it nice and light again while retaining the features, but they haven't.

If you think Safari is nice and light and fast and cool, or whatever....you haven't tried FF or Omniweb...or tried them long enough.

Don't forget cmd-v...or are you just going to copy it and no:rolleyes: it?? :rolleyes:

I don't care how much you use the keyboard...the contextual menu IS faster than hitting 4 keyboard combos.? Let's see right click (or cmd-click), then a left click to dl the image, or 4 keycombos with a couple "enter" hits in there.? Tough one.

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I don't see how the way you choose which software to use is any better than someone else's. I especially don't see how it gives you the right to mock them. Just because some choose looks over functionality doesn't mean that its wrong or right, its just the way they do it. How can you be so pompous to assume that everyone should be just like you and require the exact same functionality out of their software?

The difference is surely not as HUUUUUGE as you make it out to be. I, and obviously many others, still find Safari "light, fast and really much better than Firefox on OS X." And no, I am really not kidding myself. Safari is not a POS browser. It still is light and fast (for me). I don't see how you can say that Firefox and Omniweb offer more than Safari in what can be installed and comes bundled with it. Omniweb has no plugin architecture that I know of and both Firefox (extensions) and Safari (SIMBL) do. While Firefox is the winner on the sheer amount of extensions that are available, I have certainly found that the ones available for Safari are sufficient in my needs. I have never felt like Safari feels bloated and it has only gotten faster and snappier for me since I first used it (b v.67).

If we're comparing load times, there's virtually no difference.? BUT...Safari, the app, slows down trememdously after some usage.? I'm not saying the page loading suffers, but the app as a whole is sluggish.

584756375[/snapback]

What data sets are you basing this on? Have you done sufficient research to back this up or are you just coming from your own experience on your own computer. Surely anyone knows enough about computers to know that there are thousands of variables that can effect the speed and performance of software that are all system-independent.

What am I basing this on?? Well it's obvious...current functionality of each app.

Yeah, IF Apple went with extensions.? I'm not arguing what if's here.? Hell...even without extensions, Firefox still has more to it than Safari, and doesn't suffer from the bloat.

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Safari did go with extensions and they are readily available to anyone who wants them. There just aren't as many developers coding extensions for Safari as there are for Firefox. What extension would you like that Safari is missing? I would agree that Firefox out of the box does not suffer from bloat, but I still hold that Safari does not either.

Oh it does.? People will make excuses for anything

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No-one is making excuses. The person that claimed it looks OS X-ish has obviously no experience with the OS itself. Everything in the app is completely non-native, down to the framework of the GUI. Look at the form controls on that page! That is the most disgusting thing I have ever seen on a mac app, it is drawn from a windows button. Combine that with the cursors, text behavior, etc... it does feel very non OS X-ish. I am not going to turn this into a petty argument on the GUI of each browser, since even Safari's interface breaks Apple's HIG, but suffice it to say that many people do not appreciate the general feeling that Firefox has on OS X. Whether or not that is a choice factor in someone's decision on which browser they use is up to them. I am with you and tend to find it silly for someone to choose looks over functionality, but history has shown that people will, and that is their prerogative.

Thanks oik!? :rolleyes:hanged my mind? :rolleyes:

For me it was the speed.? Firefox is nice a light, while Safari, is, one big bloated browser.? FF is faster loading up, browsing with multiple tabs, etc etc.? I guess I don't understand why people still use it when there are many better options.

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Because for those people that you are referring to, there aren't better options. Just because you have convinced yourself that Safari is a POS, doesn't mean it is true, or that anyone should agree with you. Here is why I use Safari over Firefox/Omniweb/Camino/Shiira/IE.

I am a web designer for my university. My main job includes CSS standards design, with some small time PHP involved (the heavy stuff is left to the development team). I require a browser that will fit into my work style and work for me as well. I also use the internet for personal things, such as checking bank accounts, visiting forums and browsing weblogs, university research, etc... Because of this, I also require a browser that will work well with my system and the way I work on personal items.

Safari has never been slow for me, save a small bug I had with it around v1.1. I have tried every browser out there and their moms and Safari has consistently come up faster on page load times as well as snappier as software on my system. Window draw times, launch times, performance and behavior has always been quicker on Safari.

Omniweb was never an option for me when I worked on a 12" powerbook because of the tight display, but after moving to a 20" cinema display and 15" powerbook, the tab drawer was very attractive to me. However, after opening say 20 blogs, in tabs at once, I bring the app to its knees. It just cannot handle what I throw at it. This is a highly personal thing, considering the way I browse the internet is 90 percent personal style, so I don't expect everyone to share my experience with it, but for me, it was just too sluggish. As well, until the recent betas, it was using the old version of WebKit, which still had some standards rendering issues that I just could not have in my browser.

Firefox is a really great step towards a good Gecko OS X browser, and the rendering functionality is all there. It does lack functionality that I really need out of my browser though. For starters, it does not use Keychain. I keep all my passwords managed through Keychain and I really need (or appreciate) a browser that interacts with it. This is a huge feature for me. As well, because Firefox is not built in Cocoa, it can not use the native OS X spell check. I am posting on forums, posting on our University Intranet and filling out forms in general all the time through my browser. Spell checker integrated with my browser has been one of those things I have come to love and has saved me from looking like a complete idiot more that a few times. Although I could take the windows route and copy+paste everything into MS Word to check it before posting, the technology is available, why not take advantage of it? I really appreciate this about Safari.

Safari was missing some functionality that I really wanted in a browser such as searchable bookmarks and history, opening new-window instance links in tabs, saving a set of tabs as a window set to be opened whenever, color-coded soBut Ad-blocking, etc... But, I have found plugins for every single one of these and now Safari is just one kick-ass browser for what I do. I couldn't ask for anything better.

Chad, its one of two ways, either you have a version of Firefox that is just amazingly faster than everyone else's or you have a version of Safari that is far slower compared to everyone else's. I tend to lean on the latter. There might be something wrong with your system, or maybe you have a different definition of speemostrs, but either way, most people do not experience the same sluggishness that you do with Safari. You are forgetting the personal variable, that everyone is different and that implies that everyone's browsing needs vary. Firefox may match up with the speed and functionality you require, and that is awesome that you have found something you love and works for you, but that does not make it the same for everyone else (this reminds me of a similar debate). No one is asking you to claim Safari is better, but we are asking you to recognize that it could besomeusly is, better for some people.

[oik]

Thanks oik!  You just changed my mind  :rolleyes:

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better than letting you spread random junk around. as jagededge says, you must have screwed safari up pretty bad. that's like a pc user putting thermal grease in the ram slot and then coming to tell all the pc users how horrible pc's are.

[mac15]

Oh it does.  People will make excuses for anything

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Were not making excuses, because Firefox is written in XUL it lacks native widgets found in Safari/Camino. The windows version suffers from the same problem too. If you really want nativeness on windows use K-Meleon

[krmathis]

Wow, you really must've ****** up Safari. Mine runs faster than Firefox.

And yes, while that screenshot makes it look OS X-ish, out of box it is not (widgets on pages look extremely ugly). It also does not use real Cocoa, and you get this weird extra window when using Expos?.

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The "hidden Expos? window" what fixed several weeks ago!;);)

[rajputwarrior]

oh really, btw, its 1.0PR

Edited October 19, 2004 by rajputwarrior

[Wickedkitten Veteran]

my main reasions for using firefox were

gecko rendering engine

adblocking and countless other extensions

integrated searchbar

since the last two can be implemented with safari, my only main beef with safari is that it doesn't render some websites properly

584761492[/snapback]

That's because Safari does not support CSS 100%.

[krmathis]

oh really, btw, its 1.0PR

584766360[/snapback]

Strange, because it was fixed in the 20040925 nightly branch build.

BRANCH:#223545 Mac OS X 10.3's expose feature reveals "hidden" window [Mac]

At least I have not seen it since then! :)

[Redestium]

http://spellbound.sourceforge.net/

For those interested in spell checking within FX.

[rajputwarrior]

does anyone elses firefox lag when u scroll up or down? and can anyone else open up a link in a tab using the middle mouse button?

after doing some testing,both of those work perfect in safari, the lag is a bit better in mozilla, nothing major, EVEN WORSE in Internet Explorer and in Camino its better, but i dont like camino, watered down version of a mozzila browser

Edited October 19, 2004 by rajputwarrior