Firefox VS Safari

[tariq]

i havent come across any scroll lag. as for middle clicking, are you using windows or osx? on windows its the default behaviour while on the mac you might have to map applekey+click (might be default behaviour as well, cant remember)

[Elliott]

That's because Safari does not support CSS 100%.

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And neither does Firefox. Safari is on the right track for CSS support though. Definitely worrying about spec standards more than Gecko.

By the way, since Firefox does not use proper Smooth Scrolling (the stuff built into the system), it may seem jumpier than Safari.

[Chad]

Don't like me saying Safari sucks? How about you do a little reading on the Apple support discussions. Or really, in almost any Mac oriented discussion forum. I really am quite surprised to see this sort of pro-safari stance.

Standards...don't even get me started with web standards. The basic reason the gecko engine is around is to be standards complient. KHTML MAY do an ok job with it, but Apple doesn't. Inserting their own html/css protocols without bothering to tell anyone else about them. Yeah...real compliant.. Programming Safari around websites that are standards compliant. If that's your idea of compliance, well, that's a whole different topic.

Extensions...Safari does not have extensions. SIMBL aren't extensions, they're hacks. What Apple uses are html extensions, which aren't Safari specific. And most deal with OS X, not actual browsing.

Were not making excuses, because Firefox is written in XUL it lacks native widgets found in Safari/Camino. The windows version suffers from the same problem too. If you really want nativeness on windows use K-Meleon

Yet again, who the hell gives a rip about native widets or not? They don't hinder performance OR webpage loading. A browser has to look pretty now?

Chad, its one of two ways, either you have a version of Firefox that is just amazingly faster than everyone else's or you have a version of Safari that is far slower compared to everyone else's. I tend to lean on the latter. There might be something wrong with your system, or maybe you have a different definition of speed than others, but either way, most people do not experience the same sluggishness that you do with Safari. You are forgetting the personal variable, that everyone is different and that implies that everyone's browsing needs vary. Firefox may match up with the speed and functionality you require, and that is awesome that you have found something you love and works for you, but that does not make it the same for everyone else (this reminds me of a similar debate). No one is asking you to claim Safari is better, but we are asking you to recognize that it could be, and obviously is, better for some people.

Like I said, try doing some reading before you assume anything. You'd be surprised how many are dumping Safari for Firefox because of the reasons I've said. There's nothing wrong with anyone's system. But like you said, some people's perceptions (hint hint) are skewed because it's an Apple product.

[Tim Dorr Veteran]

Reopened this, but let's keep it civilized :)

BTW, I use FF on my PC and Camino nightlies (with the new tabs :o ) on my Mac. Native Widgets + Gecko == Speed ;)

[Redestium]

Reopened this, but let's keep it civilized :)

BTW, I use FF on my PC and Camino nightlies (with the new tabs :o ) on my Mac. Native Widgets + Gecko == Speed ;)

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That's one of the questions I've had for a while. Why have FX on OS X when there is Camino already?

[Tim Dorr Veteran]

Well, FireFox is based on XUL, which is intended as a cross-platform widget engine. As a result, it should be expect to run on OS X or any other OS. Camino is just a Mac-focused browser based on Gecko, and FireFox will be recieving a Mac clean-up post-1.0.

[Redestium]

Well, FireFox is based on XUL, which is intended as a cross-platform widget engine. As a result, it should be expect to run on OS X or any other OS. Camino is just a Mac-focused browser based on Gecko, and FireFox will be recieving a Mac clean-up post-1.0.

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Seems like competing interests to me, but I guess the more the merrier.

[Tim Dorr Veteran]

Seems like competing interests to me, but I guess the more the merrier.

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Well, FireFox technically competes against Mozilla, so you'll have to figure that one out first :D

However, in the beginning FireFox was intended as a slimmed down Mozilla and Camino was intended as a native-widget-ed browser for OS X (thereby benefiting from the speed of that interface). They just happened to have crossed paths later in development.

[Elliott]

BTW, I use FF on my PC and Camino nightlies (with the new tabs :o ) on my Mac. Native Widgets + Gecko == Speed ;)

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Wow, I didn't see Camino got some better looks. That's awesome! :D

[Fusion]

Seems like competing interests to me, but I guess the more the merrier.

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Mav, take a look at this Interview with Camino Project head Mike Pinkerton. It should answer any questions you've ever had about Camino and its existence.

[am_fek]

Camino renders large tables so much faster than Safari / OmniWeb it's kind of a joke really.

Other than that, I prefer OmniWeb.

[Redestium]

Mav, take a look at this Interview with Camino Project head Mike Pinkerton. It should answer any questions you've ever had about Camino and its existence.

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Thanks, I will.

[SkyFox]

Wow, I was unaware there was so much history behind Camino.

I use Camino on my family's g4 iMac at home, and FF on my g5 at school. I think I like FF a little more because it runs faster, but it wouldn't run at all on the home computer. Camino is definitely a worthy alternative. As far as Safari goes, it works, it gets the job done. However, it froze on my alot, and become sluggish at the drop of the hat.

[Steve]

Does anyone know of an import manager for Safari Bookmarks into Camino? I wanna try Camino for a bit, there's a couple of things i am liking about it.

I hate the UI Widgets tho, looks weird.

[Steve]

Scratch That - File / Import works wonders.

After using Camino for a little while, i've noticed a good few things / features which really should make this thread. I suggest maybe the thread really look at features in raw form, rather than opinion. If you've a problem with a browser, or a reason for picking that browser why not demonstrate it with an image, and explain it. Arguments back and forth like this aren't getting anyone anywhere. So in effect, review 'your' browser, so in turn people can see the good and bad points of it. With the benefit of screen shots, people will really actually get to see what browser might be best for them, without having to try them out, themselves....

[tariq]

Make sure to get a nightly build of Camino, the tabs are alot better!

[giantsnyy]

I use firefox on windows all the time, however when im on my iBook (which is more than my pc now a days) i can't seem to grasp a good feel of it... for some reason it just doesnt equal the quality of the windows counterpart. I keep trying to use firefox, but for some reason safari keeps pulling me back.

edit: tariq... i forgot about camino. Excellent browser

[am_fek]

One of the things I loved about Opera for Windows is the ability to set 'reload timers' on certain pages. That is, you could set a page to reload once every minute, once every five minutes, etc.. on sites where you'd otherwise be timed out.

When I'm working on my research, I often have 30-40 tabs open, and it becomes nigh on impossible to maintain sessions on all of the different databases I need because that would involve just endlessly moving from one tab to another to refresh. So I find myself constantly needing to log in and create new sessions every time I want to view new content. Opera's timed reload feature would be great..

Except I really hate Opera for OS X. Does anyone know if any other OS X browser has this feature?

[SumoHamster]

Does Safari have some type of add-on that would allow it to start with a saved session (ie, 3 tabs open on different pages)? This is one thing I love about Opera and is holding me back from using a different browser.

[krmathis]

One of the things I loved about Opera for Windows is the ability to set 'reload timers' on certain pages. That is, you could set a page to reload once every minute, once every five minutes, etc.. on sites where you'd otherwise be timed out.

Except I really hate Opera for OS X. Does anyone know if any other OS X browser has this feature?

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Mozilla Firefox with the Reload Every extension maybe? :unsure:

[Fusion]

Does Safari have some type of add-on that would allow it to start with a saved session (ie, 3 tabs open on different pages)?  This is one thing I love about Opera and is holding me back from using a different browser.

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Saft will let you save browser windows and then load them at any time. For instance, you could open all your weblogs in tabs, save as > weblogs and then go to file>load browser window>weblogs at any time. I use this feature a bunch, it is nice.

As well, it will also save the window state when you quit safari and/or safari crashes. The window will just reload where you left off will all tabs in tact.

[rajputwarrior]

chad, where can u get those widegets and what not you talked about for camino(u convinced me to switch to camino..SOOOOO fast)

[tariq]

i think he was just refering to the fact that Camino has OSX widgets (nice aqua buttons, scrollbars, radio buttons, etc.)

[DirtyLarry Veteran]

Wow, what a heated debate, all over 2 web browsers that pretty much IMO do the same exact job. I am a web designer by profession so I have to always check my in progress, and of course my final product, across multiple browsers, and I personally feel the difference between Firefox & Safari on OS X is very, very minimal in terms of overall (keyword being overall as in general) performance.

As far as some sites not working correctly, that is a problem both browsers face, and I as much as I hate to admit it, I just open up IE and it has never let me down. It is just one of those things I have learned to live with.

My main beef with Safari is when multiple windows (or tabs for that matter) are open that contain Flash content, which I tend to develop more often than just regular html based designs, Safari for some reason slows each and every Flash piece down to a crawl, and that to me personally is something that needs to be addressed since I work with Flash alot. At the end of the day I view this as a minimal beef, but ut does bother me to no end. For the record I have personally never seen it on my Windows comp either, and I have tried to emulate it. I will say though that I have no clue why but windows comps just always generally handle Flash 100 times better than Macs as far as performance, etc.

And oh yeah, about the whole image location thing, I gotta chime in here as well. Unless I am hot-linking it for lets say a post on Neowin, I am and always have been just a drag and drop man myself.

[PureEdit]

I am really liking OmniWeb 5.1, its a lot faster then 5.0/Safari.