FireFox or Opera ?

[Chode]

Opera is smaller than FireFox... explain how accomplishing more functionality in a smaller space is bloated?  It is options.  If you don't want them, don't use it.  No harm.

Yes, it can be discussed because Opera is also free.  It just displays a small Google Ad banner at the top.  Opera is not open source, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing and it isn't a necessarily good thing that FireFox is open source.  Its a preference... and it can certainly be discussed.

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Wow. The license agreement for the product and the ability for every n00b to read it's source code really is a deciding factor in the quality of a product[/sarcasm]

:sleep:

Opensource may be handy if you're a programmer, but I'm willing to wager my left testicle that the majority of people who surf the internet are NOT programmers.

Case in point, "The Gimp". Free, open source, etc... but it does not hold anything on the functionality of Photoshop.

The very fact that the majority of Firefox users use Windows is also an interesting point, as windows is neither free nor open source.

You pay money for your internet....wow, it obviously is a rip off :rolleyes:

[Elliott]

As has Opera.Not in my experience.

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Opera's in second/third place. I believe KHTML and Gecko pretty much are on par now. Dave Hyatt has been working extremely hard on Safari these past few months, getting it ready for Tiger, and I can say Safari 1.3/2.0 definitely has a lot of improvements. Safari has also been adopting new CSS3 standards before other browsers. For instance, the shadow attribute.

[blowMeNeo]

Urrrrr , just for your information.

Opera --> 7.54

Firefox --> 1.0 Preview Release

I think (and hope) the message is obvious enough

EDIT: lol the same thing was posted while i'm typing up this reply :-P

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People, Firefox is no longer a PR. If you are using the PR, time to update. Opera could be version 25.54 and it would still suck. Pages don't render correctly, half the time none of the media players work with it. Security wise, it ranks up there with IE, ****ty! But, let me thank you in advance because you'll be bringing your computer to my shop to fix it when it gets overloaded with viruses, spybots etc. So, go ahead, pay for the download. When you run into compatability problems, don't call me, you won't like the answer that I will have for you.

[Ficman]

Firefox for Free...

[blowMeNeo]

Indeed thats why it is so good!

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Another internet user smokin the wacky weed. :D

[Elliott]

People, Firefox is no longer a PR.  If you are using the PR, time to update.  Opera could be version 25.54 and it would still suck.  Pages don't render correctly, half the time none of the media players work with it.  Security wise, it ranks up there with IE, ****ty!  But, let me thank you in advance because you'll be bringing your computer to my shop to fix it when it gets overloaded with viruses, spybots etc.  So, go ahead, pay for the download.  When you run into compatability problems, don't call me, you won't like the answer that I will have for you.

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Ahem, at the time he wrote that, November 9th hadn't quite happened yet. :p

[lav-chan]

Opera could be version 25.54 and it would still suck.  Pages don't render correctly, half the time none of the media players work with it.  Security wise, it ranks up there with IE, ****ty!  But, let me thank you in advance because you'll be bringing your computer to my shop to fix it when it gets overloaded with viruses, spybots etc.  So, go ahead, pay for the download.  When you run into compatability problems, don't call me, you won't like the answer that I will have for you.

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Do you want to explain at all what you're talking about? I've been using Opera almost exclusively since 7.0something, and pages render fine for me, media players always work, and the notion that it 'ranks up there with IE' security-wise seems pretty fallacious to me.

Furthermore, i have never ONCE had a virus or a 'spybot' on any of my computers. Not once. That isn't because i use Opera -- it's because i'm not an idiot.

And what compatibility problems would there be? Considering that Opera is designed to be 'compatible' with Internet Explorer while Firetruck is designed specifically to ignore the browser that 90% of the world uses in favour of following a bunch of recommendations that nobody uses, i should think Mozilla people would be the ones with compatibility problems.

[spex04]

Pages don't render correctly, half the time none of the media players work with it.  Security wise, it ranks up there with IE, ****ty!  But, let me thank you in advance because you'll be bringing your computer to my shop to fix it when it gets overloaded with viruses, spybots etc.

585060305[/snapback]

... :pc:

Opera all the way. Although i do agree with people saying Opera is a bit bloated. It would be better if the mail/news client/mouse gestures weren't included and were plugins but never mind.

Btw, I have tried firefox, and it is a good browser.......I just like Opera better ;) Dunno why, feels more complete for some reason... :pinch:

Oh, and for people who say it takes long to customize opera, or it's interface is bloated.... well it took my under 2 minutes to get it like this:

[Elliott]

And what compatibility problems would there be? Considering that Opera is designed to be 'compatible' with Internet Explorer while Firetruck is designed specifically to ignore the browser that 90% of the world uses in favour of following a bunch of recommendations that nobody uses, i should think Mozilla people would be the ones with compatibility problems.

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Wow, that nobody uses? That's a stretch considering many companies are trying to write cleaner sites with better W3C compatibility. Reasons? It's cleaner to look at and it's the future. The popularity of CSS has forced people to use stricter standards. Definitely a step in the right direction.

Oh, and sure, I've had compatibility problems with Safari and Firefox, but I don't complain. I just don't give the site the time of day if it wasn't coded by competent web developers.

[realmccoy]

Firefox

[Chode]

It takes me around 5-15 minutes to customise opera, but I have a LOT of in-depth modifications to the browser that take a little bit to set up. Of course, my custom modifications aren't anything important to the average Joe.

It has to be Opera for me, because I like things been done right.

[jjypk]

I've tried out Opera 7.45, Opera 7.60 Preview 4 & Firefox, but Firefox wins my vote because it has built-in selective image blocking software, a better cookie manager, a better pop-up manager, slightly better tabbed browsing + Extensions.

Also, Firefox is compleately free with no ads.

[JoeBonJoey]

who the hell pays to use a browser? it's like paying for p2p when you can use it for free. Firefox & IE all the way.

[lav-chan]

Wow, that nobody uses? That's a stretch considering many companies are trying to write cleaner sites with better W3C compatibility.

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You guys really like doing that, don't you? Have you heard of exaggeration? Jesus Christ.

Reasons? It's cleaner to look at and it's the future. The popularity of CSS has forced people to use stricter standards. Definitely a step in the right direction.

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CSS doesn't force anybody to use stricter standards. Most of the big sites (MSN, for example) make use of both CSS and crappy HTML. Big sites like MSN had been using CSS for a long time before it was the trendy new thing to do. What's increasing in popularity isn't the use of CSS, it's the use of standards-compliant (X)HTML (which generally requires CSS if you want your page to look good).

In any case, what companies? I can think of, um, three or four, off the top of my head. Mozilla (more or less -- their front page doesn't validate, but i guess it's close enough), Opera, IBM.... Not many others do. Not Microsoft, not Apple, not Adobe, not Dell, not HP, not Macromedia, not even Google. (The front page of Adobe's site has fewer errors than the front page of Google, and Adobe's site is like 8 times bigger.)

But that's not even what i'm talking about. The 'recommendations that nobody uses' that i was referring to are the things like the float elements that were mentioned earlier in the thread. The recommendations say that floats should work one way, but Internet Explorer and Opera (an EXTREMELY huge majority) treat them a different way. Thus my saying that nobody uses them. Or the Mozilla people's insistence on using MIME types exclusively. If everybody followed the standards, there wouldn't be any problems with that. Unfortunately, because a lot of people don't set correct MIME types for their files (particularly PNG images on older IIS servers, in addition to other things like BitTorrent files), being a standards Nazi doesn't work. Which is why Opera lets you use the file extension if you want. Speaking of MIME types, i can't serve my Web pages as application/xhtml+xml, because that would make it impossible for 45% of my audience (the people who use Internet Explorer) to see my site. So, again, that's a recommendation that i don't use. Cool beans that Mozilla supports it, but considering i kind of want that 45% of my audience to be able to see my site without being a jerk and forcing them to switch browsers, it doesn't really matter whether it supports it or not.

who the hell pays to use a browser? it's like paying for p2p when you can use it for free. Firefox & IE all the way.

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Uh, guy. Internet Explorer costs money. You kind of had to buy Windows in order to use it.

[Toxicfume Veteran]

People, Firefox is no longer a PR.  If you are using the PR, time to update.  Opera could be version 25.54 and it would still suck.  Pages don't render correctly, half the time none of the media players work with it.  Security wise, it ranks up there with IE, ****ty!  But, let me thank you in advance because you'll be bringing your computer to my shop to fix it when it gets overloaded with viruses, spybots etc.  So, go ahead, pay for the download.  When you run into compatability problems, don't call me, you won't like the answer that I will have for you.

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Seriously, you fix computers? :blink:

Wow. Just wow.

[ZZOOzzoo]

People, Firefox is no longer a PR.  If you are using the PR, time to update.  Opera could be version 25.54 and it would still suck.  Pages don't render correctly, half the time none of the media players work with it.  Security wise, it ranks up there with IE, ****ty!  But, let me thank you in advance because you'll be bringing your computer to my shop to fix it when it gets overloaded with viruses, spybots etc.  So, go ahead, pay for the download.  When you run into compatability problems, don't call me, you won't like the answer that I will have for you.

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You're making me laugh.

I barely had any problem with Opera rendering pages whereas I get so many ugly and weird looking websites with Firefox.

I know it's designer's fault, but Opera seems more compatible with IE.

[worbd]

Opera's in second/third place. I believe KHTML and Gecko pretty much are on par now. Dave Hyatt has been working extremely hard on Safari these past few months, getting it ready for Tiger, and I can say Safari 1.3/2.0 definitely has a lot of improvements. Safari has also been adopting new CSS3 standards before other browsers. For instance, the shadow attribute

First, "Opera's in second/third place" is a blanket statement which does not reflect the fact that different browsers have different strengths. There are several standards/recommendations, you know, such as HTML, CSS, XHTML, XML, ECMAScript, and so on.

Regarding "working extremely hard", I'd be willing to bet that Hyatt is not the only one... :blink:

As for CSS3, it isn't even an official recommendation yet.

Depends on the user. I don't use any special things like "mouse gestures" which I had to look up on google to find out what they are. I use FF it works for me and I'm used to it. I may give Opera a try though, to see what people are fighting about.

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Uh, that screenshot doesn't mean anything. It depends on what you have open, what plugins are loaded, what you have done this session, etc. Remember, Opera fits on mobile phones. Firefox doesn't.

People, Firefox is no longer a PR.  If you are using the PR, time to update.  Opera could be version 25.54 and it would still suck.  Pages don't render correctly, half the time none of the media players work with it.  Security wise, it ranks up there with IE, ****ty!  But, let me thank you in advance because you'll be bringing your computer to my shop to fix it when it gets overloaded with viruses, spybots etc.  So, go ahead, pay for the download.  When you run into compatability problems, don't call me, you won't like the answer that I will have for you.

Is it really necessary to lie and troll like this? :x

People like you give Firefox a bad name.

[+unabatedshagie Subscriber¹]

People, Firefox is no longer a PR.  If you are using the PR, time to update.  Opera could be version 25.54 and it would still suck.  Pages don't render correctly, half the time none of the media players work with it.  Security wise, it ranks up there with IE, ****ty!  But, let me thank you in advance because you'll be bringing your computer to my shop to fix it when it gets overloaded with viruses, spybots etc.  So, go ahead, pay for the download.  When you run into compatability problems, don't call me, you won't like the answer that I will have for you.

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I would be interested in reading how operas security is ****ty? Care to elaborate?

You will find most of the pages which don't render correctly are either badly coded or check for opera and send different code to it.

[+unabatedshagie Subscriber¹]

Oh, and for people who say it takes long to customize opera, or it's interface is bloated.... well it took my under 2 minutes to get it like this:

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That's basically the default preview setup without the sidebar?

[..Vector..]

I like Opera, but find i just prefer Firefox, and of course it's free :)

[ABC]

I am so sorry, but Avant Browser IS your best choice.

ABC and a half!

[Rockett15]

Wow :blink:

It feels like I learn a new thing in Opera everyday.

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OMG, nice! I even get some tips in using Opera from that page lol

585054708[/snapback]

w00t right click and drag is 1337.. didn't even know you could do that and i've used opera for years

[x-byte]

I like Opera, but find i just prefer Firefox, and of course it's free :)

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If it's free or not have NOTHING to do with how good a browser is :rolleyes:

[Elliott]

You guys really like doing that, don't you? Have you heard of exaggeration? Jesus Christ.

CSS doesn't force anybody to use stricter standards. Most of the big sites (MSN, for example) make use of both CSS and crappy HTML. Big sites like MSN had been using CSS for a long time before it was the trendy new thing to do. What's increasing in popularity isn't the use of CSS, it's the use of standards-compliant (X)HTML (which generally requires CSS if you want your page to look good).

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You're right, and it's generally because they have to make it look good in IE. I'm just glad a few sites (small sites, but it's a start) are beginning to just say no to IE.

I would be interested in reading how operas security is ****ty? Care to elaborate?

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Well, not that bad. But compared to Firefox 1.x, pretty bad looking.

Opera 7.x: http://secunia.com/product/761/

Firefox 1.x http://secunia.com/product/4227/

Yes, I know, Firefox hasn't been out as long as Opera 7.x, but also look at the number of vulnerabilities found in the time span of Firefox's release to now. Also, Opera isn't as popular of a browser. Usually, you find more exploits in popular products.

[x-byte]

Ehh. Opera is very popular.. statistics lie. Many users running Opera doesn't know that it identifies as IE6.0 by default. I think atleast 80% of Opera users don't know this..