FireFox or Opera ?

[x-byte]

Stop fooling yourself into thinking that Opera is free. Opera annoys people with the ads in an attempt to make them pay to get them off their screens. A full screen "hack" doesn't cut it for most people, including me.

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Did you pay for it when you downloaded it? NO! So then it's free.. *geeez*

[attila the hun]

-bYtE,Dec 11 2004, 23:26]Did you pay for it when you downloaded it? NO! So then it's free.. *geeez*

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I doubt RIAA will agree with what you just said. :whistle: :laugh:

[x-byte]

I doubt RIAA will agree with what you just said.  :whistle: :laugh:

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Stop beeing a smartass, you know what I mean. ;)

[attila the hun]

Just kidding, dude. :shifty:

[Chode]

Stop fooling yourself into thinking that Opera is free. Opera annoys people with the ads in an attempt to make them pay to get them off their screens. A full screen "hack" doesn't cut it for most people, including me.

585085491[/snapback]

Is Neowin free to register and to post on? Why, yes it is.

But wait, there is an ad at the top of the page. Oh noes, the admins have lied to us as Neowin is obviously not free as there is an annoying ad in an attempt to make us pay so that they can actually operate their servers!!!!11111eleven :rolleyes:

And don't try tell me there's no difference, they are both Google ads. There is no difference between the two at all.

[Pink Floyd Veteran]

If only opera had a more user friendly way to block ads. A right clic menu option like AdBlock add in FX.

and of course, a way to collapse ads (w/o any third party software)

[attila the hun]

Firefox represents an important intersection of features, speed and compatability. I can use it as my only browser, it is fast and secure, and it has all the features that are important to me. In fact it introduced me to new features it would be hard to live without now. Even open source aspect is turning out to be more of an advantage than I imagined. :cool:

[Chode]

And the other fact people forget in the end is that OPERA is worth buying.

USD 39 isn't a bad price, nor is USD 20.

[attila the hun]

Oh, BTW, Firefox and Opera both have the "cute" and annoying (or modern, as they put it) user interface. Mozilla's is much better, more usable, less distracting... Though, it would be nice if the Modern theme were the default. Another plus with Mozilla/Firefox is that those annoying mouse gestures are an add-on rather than a compulsory "feature". Opera is smaller and starts faster, though the page rendering isn't as good. Mozilla and Firefox are open products, and so are more likely to get features more quickly and to survive, in some form, longer.

[Elliott]

Is Neowin free to register and to post on? Why, yes it is.

But wait, there is an ad at the top of the page. Oh noes, the admins have lied to us as Neowin is obviously not free as there is an annoying ad in an attempt to make us pay so that they can actually operate their servers!!!!11111eleven :rolleyes:

And don't try tell me there's no difference, they are both Google ads. There is no difference between the two at all.

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Ah, but they are different. I don't even notice the Google Ads in Neowin because they fit into the design. On the other hand, the Opera Google Ads are definitely in your face. It's a whole toolbar of ads, just there. There's no real intregration with the design. The colors don't match, and it's almost like a web page sitting there in the toolbar.

And the other fact people forget in the end is that OPERA is worth buying.

USD 39 isn't a bad price, nor is USD 20.

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That's your opinion. Personally, I think it's way overpriced. If it was $5, I might consider it, but probably still wouldn't buy it.

[ZZOOzzoo]

Even though I think Opera is thousand times better than Firefox, I don't agree with people saying Opera is free.

Yes, it's free to download, but it's adware, and nobody would want adware if there's ad-free alternatives.

And it seems it's possible to remove them without buying, but it's illegal.

[vcv]

Opera is free. Ads or not, it is FREE. You do NOT have to pay for it, and you can use it for as long as you like legally. That makes it free.

$20 is NOT too expensive. We're talking about software you probably use EVERY DAY. I would venture to say that a web browser is the most commonly used software by most people. How is $20 too much?! Sure, there are free alternatives. But I think a measly $20 is well worth it for a browser some enjoy using more.

[Malisk]

If Opera was ad-FREE (ha!) and, well, had much more extensions to customize it better for my own needs, I would've went that way.

But it doesn't so I use Firefox.

Both are excellent web browser of course and I understand people preferring Opera to 100%. Heck, I've used Opera in the past too for a bunch of reasons. They should also have a big thanks sent their way for all their innovations in the browser business.

Oh, and if you miss the ad bar in Opera when you're trying out Firefox, there's an extension available for that one. :D

[lav-chan]

Oh, BTW, Firefox and Opera both have the "cute" and annoying (or modern, as they put it) user interface.  Mozilla's is much better, more usable, less distracting...

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A good way to fix problems with 'cute' user interfaces is to use programs that share a user interface with every other program on your computer instead of inventing their own that doesn't work like anything else. Opera allows you to use the native Windows interface, which will make it only as cute and annoying as your visual style for Windows is. (Why the native 'skin' isn't enabled by default with Opera, i'll never know. I can't imagine what goes through people's heads when they think that making their program look completely different from every other program ever is a good idea.) Mozilla (and every single program ever produced by the Mozilla Foundation) has its own user interface that is completely independent and different from Windows's, which is not only annoying, but it's poor interface design as well.

Though, it would be nice if the Modern theme were the default. Another plus with Mozilla/Firefox is that those annoying mouse gestures are an add-on rather than a compulsory "feature".

585085727[/snapback]

... How is it 'compulsory'? When you first perform a mouse gesture, it asks if you want to use mouse gestures. If you click no, the box goes away and it never asks you again. You admit that Opera is smaller and starts faster, so i fail to see why clicking this box once makes the mouse-gestures feature anywhere near 'compulsory'.

If Opera was ad-FREE (ha!) and, well, had much more extensions to customize it better for my own needs, I would've went that way.

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I know there are extensions out there for Firetruck that might be better suited for your needs than Opera is, but i'm curious. What things, specifically, doesn't Opera let you customise that Firetruck does? The name? <_<

[intoksicated]

whatever you guys (and girls) say... to me it sounds like...

FIREFOX is the best...

[Elliott]

A good way to fix problems with 'cute' user interfaces is to use programs that share a user interface with every other program on your computer instead of inventing their own that doesn't work like anything else. Opera allows you to use the native Windows interface, which will make it only as cute and annoying as your visual style for Windows is. (Why the native 'skin' isn't enabled by default with Opera, i'll never know. I can't imagine what goes through people's heads when they think that making their program look completely different from every other program ever is a good idea.) Mozilla (and every single program ever produced by the Mozilla Foundation) has its own user interface that is completely independent and different from Windows's, which is not only annoying, but it's poor interface design as well.

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Opera does a horrible job trying to use the actual UI of the OS it's on. You're better off leaving it skinned. Mozilla products use a skinning engine because Mozilla wanted their products to be easily ported to other OSes. Mozilla did a very good job with Firefox in getting it to look like Windows, and it's working on its OS X GUI.

Opera is, but i'm curious. What things, specifically, doesn't Opera let you customise that Firetruck does? The name? <_<

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Everything. Firefox being built on XUL and being open source allows you to customize all you want. Your imagination is the limit.

Edited December 12, 2004 by jagedEdge

[lav-chan]

Opera does a horrible job trying to use the actual UI of the OS it's on. You're better off leaving it skinned.

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What are you talking about? I don't know about other operating systems (don't really care about Linux, every program written for Linux works completely differently anyway; and last i heard the OS X version of Opera was admittedly a little lame), but it works just fine on Windows. With the exception of, i think, the progress bars, Opera uses native Windows widgets 100%.

I just downloaded the latest version of Firetruck, and, while they did fix a lot of things (like the scroll bars, which finally look exactly like they're supposed to), there are still a few problems with it. Menus, for example, look different from how they're suppposed to. And of course, aesthetics aside, the preferences panel for Firetruck is pretty weird. I don't know if anyone would find it confusing, but it's different.

Everything. Firefox being built on XUL and being open source allows you to customize all you want. Your imagination is the limit.

585089217[/snapback]

I'm kind of talking about while the program is, you know, in binary format. If you had Internet Explorer's source code, would you use it as your browser and tell everybody else to use it because they can customise it all they want? Or maybe would it still suck after all?

[Elliott]

I'm kind of talking about while the program is, you know, in binary format. If you had Internet Explorer's source code, would you use it as your browser and tell everybody else to use it because they can customise it all they want? Or maybe would it still suck after all?

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Well, Internet Explorer wouldn't suck if it were open source. They'd actually have some competent developers who care about the development of the software if it were open source.

Anyway, Firefox in binary mode is very customizable. Once again, you can customize parts of the XUL. You can also change the way it looks by using CSS.

[lav-chan]

Well, Internet Explorer wouldn't suck if it were open source. They'd actually have some competent developers who care about the development of the software if it were open source.

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If that's the case, why don't you use the Mozilla suite itself? Or K-Meleon? Or Amaya? Just because two things are both open-source doesn't mean that one of them doesn't suck. (And i use 'suck' loosely, obviously, in the sense of 'i don't like it' rather than 'it's a complete piece of garbage that nobody should ever use'.)

Anyway, Firefox in binary mode is very customizable. Once again, you can customize parts of the XUL. You can also change the way it looks by using CSS.

585090457[/snapback]

Right. And there are things that you can do 'in binary mode' in Opera that you can't do in Firetruck as well. But i was asking specifically what that guy couldn't customise that was such a big deal that he had to use Firetruck.

[Elliott]

If that's the case, why don't you use the Mozilla suite itself? Or K-Meleon? Or Amaya? Just because two things are both open-source doesn't mean that one of them doesn't suck. (And i use 'suck' loosely, obviously, in the sense of 'i don't like it' rather than 'it's a complete piece of garbage that nobody should ever use'.)

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They don't get as much attention (mainly because of Firefox's success). Internet Explorer has the attention.

[blowMeNeo]

Do you want to explain at all what you're talking about? I've been using Opera almost exclusively since 7.0something, and pages render fine for me, media players always work, and the notion that it 'ranks up there with IE' security-wise seems pretty fallacious to me.

Furthermore, i have never ONCE had a virus or a 'spybot' on any of my computers. Not once. That isn't because i use Opera -- it's because i'm not an idiot.

And what compatibility problems would there be? Considering that Opera is designed to be 'compatible' with Internet Explorer while Firetruck is designed specifically to ignore the browser that 90% of the world uses in favour of following a bunch of recommendations that nobody uses, i should think Mozilla people would be the ones with compatibility problems.

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"Furthermore, i have never ONCE had a virus or a 'spybot' on any of my computers. Not once. That isn't because i use Opera -- it's because i'm not an idiot." Son, I was fixing computer when you started kindergarden. I could find viruses and spybots and a hundred other things on your computer right now. You also are calling alot of people here "idiots" that have more knowlege about computers in their pinky fingers than you will ever have. You better choose your words more wisely the next time because you are truly at the bottom here when it comes to computer knowlege.

[lav-chan]

Son, I was fixing computer when you started kindergarden.  I could find viruses and spybots and a hundred other things on your computer right now.

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Excuse me, Dad, i'm not a 'son', and you spelt Kindergarten wrong.

You also are calling alot of people here "idiots" that have more knowlege about computers in their pinky fingers than you will ever have. You better choose your words more wisely the next time because you are truly at the bottom here when it comes to computer knowlege.

585090849[/snapback]

I didn't actually call anyone an idiot, i just said that i wasn't an idiot. And, although i certainly don't consider myself a computer scientist or anything, i think you're heavily under-estimating my computer 'knowlege' and heavily over-estimating the 'knowlege' of a lot of people on Neowin.

Way to prove me wrong though. 'I'm older than you and smarter than you, that's why you're wrong.' Thanks for setting me straight, Dad.

[naap51stang]

Yes I have installed opera.....but dumped it when firefox became available. 99% of the time I install with the defaults, which will install the mail/voice.

Also, unless you personally know me, quit assuming I have or have not installed any software. I've probably forgotten more about computers than you know.

:alien:

I doubt you ever installed Opera since it asks you to disable M2/Voice at installation and use it as browser only. I think people missunderstand this, unless the features aren't used, they don't take any resources. And I doubt you would lower yourself at the level where you complain about HD useage of the program.

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[blowMeNeo]

Excuse me, Dad, i'm not a 'son', and you spelt Kindergarten wrong.

I didn't actually call anyone an idiot, i just said that i wasn't an idiot. And, although i certainly don't consider myself a computer scientist or anything, i think you're heavily under-estimating my computer 'knowlege' and heavily over-estimating the 'knowlege' of a lot of people on Neowin.

Way to prove me wrong though. 'I'm older than you and smarter than you, that's why you're wrong.' Thanks for setting me straight, Dad.

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No, you didn't call everyone an idiot, but the assumption was there. What formal computer training do you have? If you count your high school computer class, I guess you don't have much. Yes I am older and smarter, thank you. I also believe that quite a few Neowin members are very smart. Most are more respectful and smarter than you. Sorry about the Kindergarten thing, my typing sometimes gets faster than my brain goes. Can I ask you something? Is "spelt" a word? :whistle: Loser!! :D

[pink-hippo]

Can I ask you something?  Is "spelt" a word?

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Can I ask you something? Are you "old" and "smart" enough to look up a dictionary?