FireFox or Opera ?

[x-byte]

10 million downloads of firefox in a very short period of time.

Can opera boast of such milestones?

585268395[/snapback]

No, not at the same time. But Opera have been downloaded by many million users througout the time. I remember vagaly something about 20 million downloads or something. But I'm not sure.. Long time ago, mabye 2-3 years ago. And that was from a few sites only.

Have? these 10 mn ppl made the right choice?

585268395[/snapback]

Many did, many didn't. Do you think everyone who download use what they download? Many just tries it and throw it away.

EDIT:

I did some checking through Opera's pressreleases and found this:

Since it's launch on 28th of January and August, Opera 7.00 was downloaded over 10 millions times only from Opera.com.

Already in August, Opera 7 passed a new milestone with over 10 million copies downloaded just from www.opera.com.

After that I haven't found any figures...

Edited January 10, 2005 by [X]-bYtE

[vcv]

Well then download any of the recent trunk builds of Firefox and you'll notice a huge speed increase over 1.0

585268387[/snapback]

But the nightlies are barely even usable. I've tried 10 different nightlies over the past month, and each one had MAJOR usabilities issues. Crashes, pages rendering odd, and other misc bugs. The opera beta does NOT have these types of major issues. It has minor bugs, but nothing that really affects usabilities.

One more thing to ponder upon....

10 million downloads of firefox in a very short period of time.

Can opera boast of such milestones?

Have  these 10 mn ppl made the right choice?

585268395[/snapback]

Popularity has NEVER been a measure of quality, nor should it ever be.

[vip]

dont know why you argue vcv .. you know its no good :p fanbois are fanbois ... i used to be an avid fx user, but since Opera 7.54 I switched and am a lot happier ....

[megamanXplosion]

Ah, but those were Firefox's development stages. It's first steps. Opera had been out for a quite a while and was 6-7 versions in. Anyway, I'm not going to compare Firefox 1.1 PR to Opera 7.54, or tell you to use version 1.1. I also didn't push that hard into getting people to use Firefox's pre-1.0 releases. I knew they were beta, and I knew lots of people didn't like betas.

Opera 7 was a complete rewrite of practically everything in the browser. The interface backend was rewritten (if I recall correctly,) the rendering engine was rewritten from scratch, they've recently changed the plugin engine (switch from the legacy nn4 plugin architecture to the new cross-browser architecture that was being made by Opera/Mozilla/Sun/Macromedia/whoever,) the javascript engine was rewritten from scratch because javascript performance and compliance used to suck [majorly], etc. If Opera 7 had recieved a new name then it would've been treated like a new product (which it basically is.) It's not really 6-7 versions in, it was totally recreated but branded with the same name.

First steps? Well, mozilla didnt really have to do much to the Mozilla code to turn it into firefox, remove mail/chat, tweak it around a little, the engines the same.

Yeah, it's not much different, which is why Mozilla can take the newest Mozilla code and transplant it into Firefox. It's basically the same browser, just a different setup.

Isnt that just like the aol thing? My friend uses it, makes images look pretty ****ty :\

I've heard that the end user will have the option of setting how much images and stuff should be compressed. I cannot state this as fact as I haven't had personal experience with SlipStream, that's just what I've heard. If it's true then you'll be able to perform less compression in exchange for higher quality images. SlipStream also compresses HTML/CSS/JS/XML/etc., does the "AOL thing" do that too? Just curious.

Uh.. Opera has gone through a few rewrites with both the rendering engine and the core UI. When you do that, it's almost like starting from scratch. Performance issues have to be readdressed. So don't try to feed me that BS. And the Gecko rendering engine has been around for a LONG time anyways.

Performance issues do have to be readdressed, and there's almost always a performance issue fixed with each release, sometimes they aren't even issues but are made faster anyways (like the email database searching which can now search about 10x as many emails as before with the same amount of time.) I would also have to agree with you about Gecko, it has been around much longer than Presto (Opera 7/8's rendering engine.)

When Opera has the beta on their front-page for download and many many people recommending it.. I think it's pretty safe to use and compare.

I do too.

Well then download any of the recent trunk builds of Firefox and you'll notice a huge speed increase over 1.0

I'm using a recent nightly from Firefox (I compiled it myself for my own processor) and there are some speed improvements, I'll grant you that much. However, my earlier speed comparison was done between my custom-compiled and tweaked Firefox to a stock Opera installation, so Firefox still hasn't taken the lead and with Opera 8.0 coming they will likely eat dust.

One more thing to ponder upon....

10 million downloads of firefox in a very short period of time.

Can opera boast of such milestones?

Have these 10 mn ppl made the right choice?

Opera can brag about such milestones, but it's all irrelevant. The amount of downloads has nothing to do with the quality of the software, it's all about marketing (and you can't say that Firefox hasn't been marketed excessively.) How many downloads there were makes no difference as to what the right choice is (do a google search for "argumentum ad populum" which is a logical fallacy.) If the end user is happy then they couldn't have possibly made the wrong choice (though I do wish the right choice was wrong sometimes, IE is a pain in the butt for web designers/developers.) If they choose to use IE over Firefox or Opera then they haven't necessarily made the wrong choice.

[worbd]

Ah, but those were Firefox's development stages. It's first steps. Opera had been out for a quite a while and was 6-7 versions in. Anyway, I'm not going to compare Firefox 1.1 PR to Opera 7.54, or tell you to use version 1.1. I also didn't push that hard into getting people to use Firefox's pre-1.0 releases. I knew they were beta, and I knew lots of people didn't like betas.

585266736[/snapback]

Opera 7 was a rewrite, so Opera 8 is really Opera 2.

Or Mozilla is Netscape 5, while Firefox is Netscape 6.

Or, to make the comparison better:

Mozilla is v1, as it was a complete rewrite. Opera 7 was also v1.

Now, Firefox is not a complete rewrite, but uses the existing Mozilla base, so it is v2. Opera 8, similarly, is not a complete rewrite, but it uses the base from v1 (Opera 7), so it is v2 as well.

So strictly speaking, Mozilla v2 is out now, and has been out since November. Opera v2 is still being beta tested.

One more thing to ponder upon....

10 million downloads of firefox in a very short period of time.

Can opera boast of such milestones?

Have  these 10 mn ppl made the right choice?

585268395[/snapback]

If you think ten million downloads equals ten million people, and you think that everyone who downloads Firefox starts using it, you are rather naive. Download number are largely irrelevant, especially when the Firefox download numbers were artificially inflated by a sense of "competition". Everyone was downloading Firefox like mad to reach a certain number.

So trying to use this marketing trick as a "milestone" or measure of actual usage is silly.

[drgrudge]

If you think ten million downloads equals ten million people, and you think that everyone who downloads Firefox starts using it, you are rather naive. Download number are largely irrelevant, especially when the Firefox download numbers were artificially inflated by a sense of "competition". Everyone was downloading Firefox like mad to reach a certain number.

So trying to use this marketing trick as a "milestone" or measure of actual usage is silly.

585272410[/snapback]

Is firefox team a fool by downloading the program themselves? Anyway people who have laptop and PC must have downloaded twice.

No one was mad to download when it was realeased.... , and the numbers were not

artificially inflated as well. By now even more people would have downloaded.

If a person is satisfied with the product only he will want to download and use the same, not otherwise or for creating records. :angry:

[worbd]

Is firefox team a fool by downloading the program  themselves? Anyway people who have laptop and PC must have downloaded twice.

I know several people who have downloaded Firefox several times in several different locations. If you read Slashdot, there are loads of comment saying the same thing. Do the math.

If a person is satisfied with the product only he will want to download and use the same, not otherwise or for creating records. :angry:

Huh?

The point is, the 10 million downloads thing was a hype, and people were trying to get as many downloads as possible to reach that goal. It says nothing about the number of people who actually downloaded it, or how many actually stuck with Firefox.

[Pallab]

grudge..

among those 10 million i am also included.

FF was really publicised b4 it's v1.

So allmost as soon as it was released i d'loaded it.

But all i got was dissapointment.

Anyway,when slipstream is integrated the speed issue would be resoved for good.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

I think Slipstream will be a flop. Won't be big until quite some time.

[vcv]

Is firefox team a fool by downloading the program  themselves? Anyway people who have laptop and PC must have downloaded twice.

No one was mad to download when it was realeased.... , and the numbers were not

artificially inflated as well. By now even more people would have downloaded.

If a person is satisfied with the product only he will want to download and use the same, not otherwise or for creating records. :angry:

585272482[/snapback]

I've downloaded Firefox 1.0 15 times since it was released. 3 were for other people, only 1 of which uses it, because I forced them to. I don't even use it as my main browser.

[megamanXplosion]

Is firefox team a fool by downloading the program themselves?

Almost all programmers use their own software, otherwise it wouldn't be worth the effort to program it. So, what was your point?

Anyway people who have laptop and PC must have downloaded twice.

Not necessarily. It only takes 1 download to install a program on 100+ computers, so it could definately be done for just two computers, assuming that they are on the same network (which is probably true considering that most laptops use wireless connections.) Not to mention that people have things like Jump Drives on them at all times (I have mine on my key ring.) You must also take into account that some people might've downloaded the program several times just for the sake of updating (the copy they're running and/or update their stored installers in case they need to reinstall later. I always download fresh copies of the software I use so that I have the updated installers for those "encase **** happens" scenarios.)

No one was mad to download when it was realeased.... , and the numbers were not

artificially inflated as well. By now even more people would have downloaded.

Technically, the numbers were artificially inflated. There were large crowds of firefox fanboys going around spamming download sites and giving fake reviews and comments which of course influenced people to download the software moreso than honest reviews would've (I'm not saying that it would've gotten bad reviews, but it would've likely came out to 4/5 on most comments rather than 5/5 which greatly influences someone's choice on downloading the software.) If they didn't flood download sites with fake reviews and comments then they probably wouldn't have had nearly as many downloads. Therefore, the download number was artificially inflated (the firefox fanboys basically lied to potential users just so they'd download it.)

I think Slipstream will be a flop. Won't be big until quite some time.

Why do you think so?

I've downloaded Firefox 1.0 15 times since it was released. 3 were for other people, only 1 of which uses it, because I forced them to. I don't even use it as my main browser.

I've downloaded it about 10 times since 0.6, and I also don't use it as my main browser (I use it for testing websites mostly.)

[arrrgh]

dont know why you argue vcv .. you know its no good :p fanbois are fanbois ... i used to be an avid fx user, but since Opera 7.54 I switched and am a lot happier ....

585268707[/snapback]

It's funny how rabit IE/Opera fans diss rabit Firefox fans for being fanboys... while failing to realise that they are nothing more than fanboys of a different product themselves.

I've used both Opera and Firefox for some time, started using Opera just before it hit 7.0 and Firefox when it was around .6. I used them both until Firefox got around .9, at that point I realised that I barely used Opera anymore. Couple weeks ago after I reformated I didn't even bother installing Opera anymore, eventhough I paid for it years back. Firefox just does everything better for me.

[Rix]

It's funny how rabit IE/Opera fans diss rabit Firefox fans for being fanboys... while failing to realise that they are nothing more than fanboys of a different product themselves.

I've used both Opera and Firefox for some time, started using Opera just before it hit 7.0 and Firefox when it was around .6. I used them both until Firefox got around .9, at that point I realised that I barely used Opera anymore. Couple weeks ago after I reformated I didn't even bother installing Opera anymore, eventhough I paid for it years back. Firefox just does everything better for me.

585275414[/snapback]

Years back? How many years? Your license wouldnt cover Opera 7 if it was a while ago :unsure:

[megamanXplosion]

Years back? How many years? Your license wouldnt cover Opera 7 if it was a while ago

Opera 7.0 was released January 30, 2003. It's been almost 2 years since Opera 7 was first released.

[Chode]

If, on average, every person downloaded it 10 times....

then it's more akin to 1,000,000 users downloaded it. But I suspect the average download times per person is actually larger (artificially inflated by outlying results)

[vcv]

It's funny how rabit IE/Opera fans diss rabit Firefox fans for being fanboys... while failing to realise that they are nothing more than fanboys of a different product themselves.

I've used both Opera and Firefox for some time, started using Opera just before it hit 7.0 and Firefox when it was around .6. I used them both until Firefox got around .9, at that point I realised that I barely used Opera anymore. Couple weeks ago after I reformated I didn't even bother installing Opera anymore, eventhough I paid for it years back. Firefox just does everything better for me.

585275414[/snapback]

There is a reason why Firefox Fanboys are considered the worst. They tend to be misinformed about Opera. A lot like it beacuse it's open-source.. even though that has no bearing on them.

I'm not saying all Firefox users are like that, or that none of Opera users are. But the ratio for Firefox is greater.

[Chode]

I'll admit that I'm a fanboy for Opera, but I'm not rabid.

I'd normally leave people to decide what browser they want to use, but I insist that if they're going to diss Opera/IE/The Rest Of The World that they diss it for the right reasons.

"Firefox!!111 is more secure and its fastre theanh Internet esxplorer and Opera licks docnkey tsticles!!!!!11111111usefirefox!" - is not a valid, nor grammatically correct reason.

"I like Firefox" - Good reason (Y). It's a personal preference.

[d_ralphie]

It's funny how rabit IE/Opera fans diss rabit Firefox fans for being fanboys... while failing to realise that they are nothing more than fanboys of a different product themselves.

firefox fanboys and pushers are rightfully becoming more and more hated across the web. it is not that they love firefox. it's they way they are completely ignorant about other browsers, and just spew out what they've been brainwashed into thinking about these other browsers, without even trying it out themselves.

at least the opera fanboys have usually tried firefox before forming an opinion. you see, you have to pay for opera, but people prefer something if it's free. so they hear about the free firefox and obviously try it out.

on the other hand, firefox fanbois often don't bother to try out opera, so they just spew out the tired old lies they've heard from someone else who didn't try opera either, but who heard it from someone else who didn't try opera either, who... etc.

firefox fanboys are completely different from opera fanboys. while opera fanboys, rabid as they may be, are usually well informed, especially about the over-hyped firefox, firefox fanboys are usually completely ignorant about other browsers, but that has never stopped them from spreading fud about them...

[arrrgh]

Firefox is downloaded 200 000 - 300 000 times every day, you can't be seriously saying that it's the same 20 000-30 000 people downloading it over and over again. Firefox is immensively more popular than Opera, denial won't change it.

From reading Firefox vs. Opera threads on various boards (this, mozillazine, opera forums) I fail to see any difference between the fans. Firefox and Opera both have their 'bad apples' and since Firefox is more popular, it's statistically bound to have more this kind of fans. It's the human nature, not the browser.

Edit: d_ralphie: Never have I seen so much FUD and bull**** concentrated in one post, congrats.

[Chode]

Edit: d_ralphie: Never have I seen so much FUD and bull**** concentrated in one post, congrats.

585276110[/snapback]

Why do you think that many people draw parallels between Firefox users and Mormons?

[d_ralphie]

Firefox is downloaded 200 000 - 300 000 times every day, you can't be seriously saying that it's the same 20 000-30 000 people downloading it over and over again. Firefox is immensively more popular than Opera, denial won't change it.

a billion flies can't be wrong. eat ****!

and by the way, do you even know opera's download numbers?

From reading Firefox vs. Opera threads on various boards (this, mozillazine, opera forums) I fail to see any difference between the fans. Firefox and Opera both have their 'bad apples' and since Firefox is more popular, it's statistically bound to have more this kind of fans. It's the human nature, not the browser.

opera fanboys are infinitely more informed than the disgusting firefox fanboys.

Edit: d_ralphie: Never have I seen so much FUD and bull**** concentrated in one post, congrats.

585276110[/snapback]

oh please. i see more and more people not using firefox just because of the rabid fanboys that pollute the web. you won't see that with any other browser.

[j.r.l.]

I like Firefox. I use Firefox. And I will keep using it. My Firefox is custom. I made it the way I want. The open source community has always been good to me, but you need the knowledge to fully "exploit" it to it's best. Internet Explorer is nothing close to a bad browser, it's just more "user friendly" out of the box.

[d_ralphie]

by the way, Pallab or anyone else..

is there a site available for linking for the image in my sig? maybe someone should set up a site one can link to where firefox's crap is exposed?

[Night.Hawk]

Firefox is downloaded 200 000 - 300 000 times every day, you can't be seriously saying that it's the same 20 000-30 000 people downloading it over and over again. Firefox is immensively more popular than Opera, denial won't change it.

From reading Firefox vs. Opera threads on various boards (this, mozillazine, opera forums) I fail to see any difference between the fans. Firefox and Opera both have their 'bad apples' and since Firefox is more popular, it's statistically bound to have more this kind of fans. It's the human nature, not the browser.

Edit: d_ralphie: Never have I seen so much FUD and bull**** concentrated in one post, congrats.

585276110[/snapback]

Oh, well in that case I'll change back to IE since it's more popular than Firefox or Opera :rolleyes:

Lol, I've used Firefox for forever, but saying it's downloaded more is no reason to get it. Porn's downloaded more than either, why don't we "surf" with it. :rofl:

I've just now tried out Opera, and to tell you the truth, I use both just about the same amount. In fact, both are great, but all of you have your minds set on one view and won't look at the greatness of both.

Have we become so entangled in this world as to forget what they were both made for? To get away from IE (If it's really all that bad). If I was an IE user and I read this I wouldn't switch to either because of the way you two are acting.

[Chode]

by the way, Pallab or anyone else..

is there a site available for linking for the image in my sig? maybe someone should set up a site one can link to where firefox's crap is exposed?

585276175[/snapback]

http://browsehappy.com/ is the best site to link to.