Apple Displays

[thetechroom]

Apple seriously needs to reduce the price of their displays.

For example, the Apple 20" Cinema Display vs the Dell 2005FPW.

Apple Display

Brightness (typical)  250 cd/m2

Contrast ratio (typical)  400:1

Response time (typical)  16 ms

$1,299.00

Dell Display

Response Time (typical): 16ms black-to-white

Contrast Ratio: 600:1

Brightness (typical): 300cd/m2

$799.00

The Dell has vastly better specifications, sure it doesn't look as nice asthetically as the Apple but I certainly wouldn't pay $500 for the casing of a monitor. You can also get various rebates and discounts on the Dell, and I'm sure if you tried hard enough you could get it for less than $700.

Why on earth are people still buying Apple displays when they are this overpriced?

584999313[/snapback]

Dude the Apple is 1300 dollars, no way on Earth is this 2wice the price of the Dell display you say to be $800. Thats a massive difference of $300 more if you compared 2 Dells against one Apple. Dude, get the maths right before you critisize apples pricing strategies. :rolleyes:

[aldo]

Dude the Apple is 1300 dollars, no way on Earth is this 2wice the price of the Dell display you say to be $800. Thats a massive difference of $300 more if you compared 2 Dells against one Apple. Dude, get the maths right before you critisize apples pricing strategies.  :rolleyes:

585002415[/snapback]

You can get them with rebates for around about $600. 2x $600 = $1200. Dell does loads of discounts and rebates and as long as you look hard you could easily get it for $600. Infact there is rumors suggesting that the monitor itself is going to be priced at $699 'standard' shortly.

You got some figures on that?

I don't have a nice graph or anything, but from 1997:

Apple Computer disclosed in its yearly 10K filing with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission that its marketshare fell sharply during 1997. Worldwide, Apple's marketshare fell from 5.2% to 3.1%, while it fell from 6.6% to 4.3% in the United States. While Apple was consistently in the top three biggest personal computer manufacturers for many years, they've recently fallen out of the that tier. Sadly, Apple expects its marketshare to fall even further during 1998, "through at least [March] 1998, if not longer."

Then in 2003

Apple's fourth quarter 2003 global market share dipped under 2 per cent for the first time, according to Merril Lynch.

Apple holds ninth position in the market with 1.7 per cent share in the quarter, but the analyst observed: "We expect iPod success eventually to spill over into Mac purchases."

2004 figures will come out soon and I expect them to be even worse, they may scrap e 1.2-1.5% if they are lucky. I can't see much of the ipod success spilling over to Mac, for a while anyway, It's a bit of a jump going from a $250 music player to a $1400 computer (imac, the computer that Apple pushes to ipod potential converts)

[Prosidius]

I too always wondered how Apple could charge that much for a monitor. The monitors do look gorgeus (sp?) but to pay that much more for something that just looks good is not worth it.

[NetRyder]

You got some figures on that?

585002398[/snapback]

Since you asked for it:

Apple Computer's worldwide market share fell to 1.8% in the third quarter of this year from 2.1%, and dropped to 3.2% from 3.6% in the U.S., according to figures from research company Gartner. The numbers also showed dramatic declines in the quarter-to-quarter growth rate of Macs sold while Apple's Windows-based competitors saw double digit increases in the U.S and an almost 10% rise worldwide.

Read the full article: http://www.macobserver.com/article/2004/10/29.6.shtml

Edited November 28, 2004 by NetRyder

[Liquid]

Who would put an ugly Dell monitor on a beautiful G5... :blink:

584999615[/snapback]

Because apple displays are just crappy rebranded LG's. Dell has some quality monitors.

[NetRyder]

NEWSFLASH!

APPLE PRODUCTS COST A BIT MORE THAN OTHER BRANDS

In other news, water found to be wet, sky found to be blue

Guess what guys, with their 20/23/30" displays, Apple isn't targeting consumers, aka you people. The displays are aimed at movie studios, graphic labs, schools w/ media programs, and any other business that needs a big amount of desktop space (and probably already has a contract with apple)

Jesus Christ, I love how you people come in here and bitch about how Apple NEEDS to lower their prices or they are teh d00med!1!! Apple's been doing this for 20 years now guys, I think they know what they're doing.

585002180[/snapback]

Think about it, nuggetman. It's not a small amount we're talking about here.

Apple doesn't have any serious competition in the 23/30" arena (yet), but when you have a competing 20" display with better picture quality and better specs selling at a significantly lower price, it really makes you think.

I find it appalling how people continue to justify Apple's pricing just because of brandname-loyalty. I mean, do you people ever think about yourselves, or do you just look at the best interest of Apple? The only reason Apple has been able to get away with this for 20 years is because there are still people who do not understand the value of money. It's fine paying a small premium for aesthetics, but we're not talking about a small premium here. It is, as someone rightly put it earlier, nothing more than 'daylight robbery.'

Who would put an ugly Dell monitor on a beautiful G5... :blink:

584999615[/snapback]

Everything doesn't need to be a fashion accessory, especially not one that's going to cost you in excess of $400.

[radioboy]

I find it appalling how people continue to justify Apple's pricing just because of brandname-loyalty.

585003666[/snapback]

23" and 30" high definition cinema displays are NOT TARGETED at the home user.

The dual 2.5GHz G5 towers are NOT TARGETED at the home user.

This isn't an issue of brand name loyalty. I would never buy an Apple display or G5 tower, simply because of the price.

However, if a movie house, graphic lab, etc, something that these monitors ARE THE TARGET MARKET for already has a contract with apple, odds are they're going to go for Apple over Dell, simply for support and contract purposes.

Some Apple things are insanely over priced. Others are almost equally price. Most PC laptops I looked at were equal to, if not more than, the cost of my Powerbook ($1599 on educ discount)

However, the fact also remains that business week, time, the wall street journal, and just about every other financial magazine has predicted the decline of apple since 1984, and so far apple is holding on strong. Apple isn't worrying what a bunch of nerds on a forum think of their prices of monitors they aren't even trying to sell to them.

[aldo]

However, if a movie house, graphic lab, etc, something that these monitors ARE THE TARGET MARKET for already has a contract with apple, odds are they're going to go for Apple over Dell, simply for support and contract purposes.

Doubt it. Dell offers 3 hour part replacement warranties. Apple doesn't. Dell offers BIG discounts for contract customers. Apple doesn't. Dell can get me 1,000 machines in 48 hours time. With Apple, it'd probably take them a week just to find the damn things, nevermind ship them. Look how much damage the G5s at the 'big mac' cluster did to the supply chains. They are not geared up for big business.

As I've said, a lot of the core Apple places like Graphic Design, Newspapers and Magazines are going Windows. Apple would of lost the movie sector if it wasn't for final cut.

As for WSJ etc, what they have been predicting IS true. Apple's market share has fallen through the floor and it doesn't look like it's going to get better any time soon. The ipod has saved it but I don't think any of us would be happy if Apple decided to cut out the Mac and just go with ipod (which would be a very sound business decision).

Apple cannot compete any more with Dell, HP etc, on price, performance or contract duties. They are not big enough. They always have to rely on IBM, Moto etc for their CPUs which has always never worked out, IBM with their $1b max spending on the G5 vs Intel and AMD with their $25b+ - it's obvious who is going to win.

While I agree the 23" and 30" aren't targeted (at the moment) at the home user, the 20" sure as hell is. Apple is going to have to do something drastic here, especially when 'cheapo dell' is beating them on quality.

[docvenom04]

Everything doesn't need to be a fashion accessory, especially not one that's going to cost you in excess of $400.

585003666[/snapback]

Right... and Kia > Mercedes... They both do the same things right? Wait, the Kia has a better warantee. :sleep:

[VGVL]

Right... and Kia > Mercedes... They both do the same things right? Wait, the Kia has a better warantee. :sleep:

585005934[/snapback]

Exactly!

Sometimes functionality is not the most important thing. If it already works just as well as the other product, then it better look nice and have something special about it.

On Friday I got my 20" Apple Cinema Display, and I don't regret the price. I did not consider any other monitor but the Cinema Display. I wasn't going to put that ugly Dell box on my PowerBook.

This Display doesn't look like your average monitor, it's a piece of art. The Aluminum frame, touch-sensitive power and brightness buttons ( 3G iPod-like) on the sides, and cable management (with white cables, by the way) make it worth its price.

I had the choice of value for my money or quality. I chose quality.

[macman87]

Geez this debate should have ended ages ago. If people think Apple Displays/ other Apple Hardware/ anything to do with the Apple brand is too expensive, then DON'T BUY IT. Get the Dell Display then. Theres no point complaining here and its not like Apple will listen and lower prices. The point is, if you think they're prices are crap then just don't get it from them. Simple as that. ;)

[smooth_gt]

God Bless you Phillip :sleep:

[Chad]

I had the choice of value for my money or quality. I chose quality.

585006502[/snapback]

No you didn't, you chose the Apple. When comparing the stats between the two, it's clear that the Dell is the better monitor. Even comparing them side by side, it's quite evident which is better.

I agree with Netryder. People buy Apple stuff JUST because it's made by Apple. Look at the Airport Extreme. It's EASILY the worst performing wireless router in that price range, yet people still buy it over Netgear, Linksys, etc, which put out better routers at half the price. Now, I don't think this can apply with the Macintosh/laptop machines themselves. I have no problem saying that they are VERY overpriced, but for me, OS X alone is worth the extra. It has NOTHING to do with the hardware...it's all about OS X and the apps you get.

If I wanted an aluminum looking Apple monitor, I'd buy the Dell 2005 (which I will do here soon),wrap aluminum foil around it, and put one of the thousand white Apple stickers I have on it.

And yes, Apple's marketshare has been dwindling for the past 10 years. Installed userbase tells us a different story, but Apple can't survive on the iPod alone for very long. Eventually something else will come along.

[muzzle79]

Look at the Airport Extreme.  It's EASILY the worst performing wireless router in that price range, yet people still buy it over Netgear, Linksys, etc, which put out better routers at half the price.

585007330[/snapback]

Have you tried getting a Netgear, Linksys or DLink wifi card to work out of the box without a single hacked / 3rd party driver?

The fact of the matter is People do have brand loyalty. Often because its a tried and tested option for their requirements. It doesn't make their decision any less informed than anyone elses, they choose to buy the brands the like for reasons of security when it comes to compatibility.

I for one am looking at getting two 23" Displays for the recording studio i'm putting together. I've been looking at only one other monitor so far thats looked apealing and thats an HP. I've given others a shot yet not can compete thus far in my opinion with the new line of cinema displays.

Please don't take my response as one agreesive towards you it's merely to point out that people buy what they like.

it's all relative to man having the ability to make choices :) and some choosing apple.

No ones choice is a bad choice simply because it's their choice. (aside from faulty merchandise of course lol )

[ike]

Have you tried getting a Netgear, Linksys or DLink wifi card to work out of the box without a single hacked / 3rd party driver?

585007550[/snapback]

what the hell are you talking about? i've only used netgear stuff personally, but all of it has been quite easy to set up! install the driver from the CD (or download it) and you're good to go...

why would you need a hacked driver?

[muzzle79]

what the hell are you talking about? i've only used netgear stuff personally, but all of it has been quite easy to set up! install the driver from the CD (or download it) and you're good to go...

why would you need a hacked driver?

585007566[/snapback]

This very well may have changed recently, but it wasn't the case when i had three different netgear units and one linksys unit. It wasn't until i found a sourceforge driver for a dlink device that anything worked correctly.

The airport xard is plug and play on a mac. That's what draws people to it.

I'm not arguing over the over performance merely the fact that people dont want to be bothered with such. Tech savy users such as yourself may be interested in troubleshooting and or even the simple task of driver installs. However i know many a user that would rather buy the card, plug it in and it work. If apple products were as bad and over priced as people here are trying to make them out to be would they be selling? Nope.

As stated earlier. It's all relative to personaly choice!

[ike]

No you didn't, you chose the Apple.

585007330[/snapback]

:yes:

we're talking about monitors here. this is not like comparing a kia with a mercedes... the monitor has one basic function. cars have MANY functions, beyond getting you from A to B: air conditioning, comfortable seats, electric windows, headlights, radio/sound system, the list goes on... then, what's under the hood: motor type & quality, etc.

i don't deny that the apple screen's case looks better than the dell. but this isn't a debate of value vs. quality, it's a debate of "functional but ugly" vs. "functional and gorgeous"

some people are willing to pay for that. personally, i'd prefer to have the apple monitor on my desk, but i'm not willing to pay double the price for the looks of it. again, some people are but many (most?) aren't.

[ike]

I'm not arguing over the over performance merely the fact that people dont want to be bothered with such. Tech savy users such as yourself may be interested in troubleshooting and  or even the simple task of driver installs.  However i know many a user that would rather buy the card, plug it in and it work.

585007587[/snapback]

well that was one of the selling points of the "switch" campaign... simplicity.

(and not to mention a long apple history as well)

and i'm not sure about using a netgear/linksys/etc card on a mac... i don't know if that's even possible?

i'll definitely agree that windows driver management isn't what it should be in some cases. however, with XP especially, the prospect of "plug and play" has become much more real. built-in drivers & downloading drivers via the internet (automatically!) both help to streamline the experience. generally speaking, installing mainstream hardware has become quite easy, even with the older windows 98, and windows 2000 too, once people got over the shock of it...

but when something goes wrong, oh what a pain it can be ;)

[docvenom04]

:yes:

we're talking about monitors here. this is not like comparing a kia with a mercedes... the monitor has one basic function. cars have MANY functions, beyond getting you from A to B: air conditioning, comfortable seats, electric windows, headlights, radio/sound system, the list goes on... then, what's under the hood: motor type & quality, etc.

i don't deny that the apple screen's case looks better than the dell. but this isn't a debate of value vs. quality, it's a debate of "functional but ugly" vs. "functional and gorgeous"

some people are willing to pay for that. personally, i'd prefer to have the apple monitor on my desk, but i'm not willing to pay double the price for the looks of it. again, some people are but many (most?) aren't.

585007598[/snapback]

A car has one basic function. Getting you around. Both a Mercedes and a Kia will successfully get you around. Look at it this way. Would you put the rims from a Kia on your Mercedes? HELL no. It wouldn't match. Therefore, who want's to besmirch the beauty of the G5 with the ununiform look of the Dell monitor. :x

[pizza]

Ummm...the AirPort Express streams music wirelessly! It's NOT just a wireless router!

No you didn't, you chose the Apple.  When comparing the stats between the two, it's clear that the Dell is the better monitor.  Even comparing them side by side, it's quite evident which is better.

I agree with Netryder.  People buy Apple stuff JUST because it's made by Apple.  Look at the Airport Extreme.  It's EASILY the worst performing wireless router in that price range, yet people still buy it over Netgear, Linksys, etc, which put out better routers at half the price.  Now, I don't think this can apply with the Macintosh/laptop machines themselves.  I have no problem saying that they are VERY overpriced, but for me, OS X alone is worth the extra.  It has NOTHING to do with the hardware...it's all about OS X and the apps you get.

If I wanted an aluminum looking Apple monitor, I'd buy the Dell 2005 (which I will do here soon),wrap aluminum foil around it, and put one of the thousand white Apple stickers I have on it.

And yes, Apple's marketshare has been dwindling for the past 10 years.  Installed userbase tells us a different story, but Apple can't survive on the iPod alone for very long.  Eventually something else will come along.

585007330[/snapback]

[pixlnet]

It took them 18 months last time to update their monitors. Are they going to do the same this time aswell?

This is insanity that Apple gets away with this theft - this is technically a much better monitor - it has picture in picture support with VGA, DVI and SVideo all at the time!

I don't know about you, but the monitor is what I look at, not the damn display itself.

584999793[/snapback]

It's not theft. There are some things you left out about the specs. Attention to detail is something Apple is really good at. That attention to detail is included in the price, so yeah. Plus, it is part of their Pro line. Buyers of the Pro-line don't pay as much attention to price as a normal consumer like you would. Buy the Dell monitor if its superior.

[Vice]

If I had the cash to splash about I would get the apple monitor too, but I don't so I would probably go with something from Hyundai with a 8ms response time.

[ike]

A car has one basic function. Getting you around. Both a Mercedes and a Kia will successfully get you around. Look at it this way. Would you put the rims from a Kia on your Mercedes? HELL no. It wouldn't match. Therefore, who want's to besmirch the beauty of the G5 with the ununiform look of the Dell monitor. :x

585008259[/snapback]

ok dude, rock on. when i'm driving my lexus around tonight i'll remember that i'd be just as well off with a kia..or..something..what was your point again?

[Vice]

ok dude, rock on. when i'm driving my lexus around tonight i'll remember that i'd be just as well off with a kia..or..something..what was your point again?

585008961[/snapback]

His point is clear, people will pay more to get the better look, even though the Dell is functional cheap and can do the same stuff the Apple displays look allot better and people will pay the extra for the aesthetics of the apple displays.

[ike]

His point is clear, people will pay more to get the better look, even though the Dell is functional cheap and can do the same stuff the Apple displays look allot better and people will pay the extra for the aesthetics of the apple displays.

585008984[/snapback]

the difference between a kia and a mercedes is not just look, which was my point above...