Apple Displays

[NetRyder]

Someone please close this thread.  I can't believe you guys are all still going around and around on this topic.  Value is in the eye of the consumer.  If I had a Mac, I would certainly not use a Dell display, and vice versa.  Does anyone care about price?  Well, I did when 15" LCD monitors used to cost $2500.

NetRyder, I hope you read your TomsHardware.com.  Monitors are more than just their specs.  Run the full gambit of tests on everything Apple and Dell make, and see for yourself that the results won't be what you expect.  Monitors are not all made alike.  If Apple made a monitor to the exact specs of a Dell monitor, there's no way they would get away with the price they sell it for.  I won't say you're wrong at all, but I would suggest more homework than the websites for Apple and Dell.  Don't knock it until you see them side by side in real-world tests.  The results may shock all of you. :devil:

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There's no reason to close the thread since it's perfectly civil. Nobody is flaming, and it's just a discussion. Or would you rather have it closed because it's an eye-opener to people who are still under the false impression that the ACDs are the best displays on the planet?

Trust me, I have done my 'homework.' I wouldn't get into this discussion if I was uninformed. It's funny you should mention TomsHardware, because I don't see a review of the 2005FPW anywhere on it. Can you show me an impartial review that compares the 2005FPW and the 20" ACD? Shows who has been doing their homework.

Besides, like Chad said, if you look at the two displays side by side (sheesh, cover up the bezel if you hate the sight of it so much), you'll clearly be able to tell the difference. One of my friends in the residence halls just received a 2005FPW, and I've seen the Apple Displays in the university computer store. As you rightly said, don't knock it until you see it, and I can bet most of these people who claim the ACD is a better display haven't had a chance to see a real 2005FPW in front of them.

[+Warwagon MVC]

because apple users are a special bread!

[SpeakNoSparky]

Apprently, NetRyder, you have missed the point. Whether the review came out or not, fact is that tests time and time again have shown that the specs shown on a website are not going to be the desired, usuable specs, especially when it comes to those who are picky about color reproduction. That's why Tom's Hardware created a standard for their monitor testing that looks beyond all the advertised fluff companies put out there, and actually look at real-world usage. Once color calibrated, the results can possibly tell a different story. Hell, I never run a monitor without tweaking the controls a bit to make it look more pristine.

In all honesty, none of this matters unless a reputable review site comes out with test results. Secondly, I doubt a Mac user would go out and buy a Dell monitor, and vice versa. I've found that unless someone needs a special monitor (touchscreen, integrated credit card swiper, anti-microbial), most people tend to buy the brand that matches with their PC. It's all tying back to the fact that Apple is on their own little island, and the PC realm has a giant continent (let's call it Pangea). Personally, I just think this whole discussion is futile unless Apple's LCD monitor just really blows chunks up against Dell. Then I'll just have to rethink what kind of monitor I'll buy when I get my G5. I wonder if LaCie does decent LCD monitors... :devil:

I gotta put out one last thought here:

It's such a shame that brand name has become so insignificant nowadays, especially with everyone outsourcing things to everyone else. I just remember how computers used to be when I was younger. But times have changed. I think that as consumers, we all really get the short end of the stick nowadays. Kudos to those who build for quality, and a lump of coal to those who build crap for $$$.

[SpeakNoSparky]

because apple users are a special bread!

585024229[/snapback]

You mean like Pumpernickel?

Yes, I know what you mean...I'm a Windows and Mac user, and the Mac user is certainly different. They're not as rare anymore.

I'm thinking that part of the lesson we're learning is that the people we look to for quality are not beinging us top quality like they used to. Apple's final generation of CRT displays were all OEM'ed Mitsubishi Diamondtrons, and they were great monitors. Perhaps Apple has made bad decisions on the LCD manufacturer (LG in this case) or specs.

I'm drawing blanks now...must be this Dell CRT monitor (OEM'ed by Sony) I sit in front of eight hours a day that's zapping my brain... :wacko:

[Chad]

In all honesty, none of this matters unless a reputable review site comes out with test results.  Secondly, I doubt a Mac user would go out and buy a Dell monitor, and vice versa.  I've found that unless someone needs a special monitor (touchscreen, integrated credit card swiper, anti-microbial), most people tend to buy the brand that matches with their PC.  It's all tying back to the fact that Apple is on their own little island, and the PC realm has a giant continent (let's call it Pangea).  Personally, I just think this whole discussion is futile unless Apple's LCD monitor just really blows chunks up against Dell.  Then I'll just have to rethink what kind of monitor I'll buy when I get my G5.  I wonder if LaCie does decent LCD monitors... :devil:

.

585024346[/snapback]

If all I had was a Mac, I wouldn't hesitate to get the Dell. In fact, I've been looking at the 2001 since it came out...all the while, I was using a Macintosh 100% of the time.

The Apple monitor isn't bad, but it's not as good as the Dell-branded one. And at double the price, it's not the smartest choice

[NetRyder]

Apprently, NetRyder, you have missed the point.  Whether the review came out or not, fact is that tests time and time again have shown that the specs shown on a website are not going to be the desired, usuable specs, especially when it comes to those who are picky about color reproduction.  That's why Tom's Hardware created a standard for their monitor testing that looks beyond all the advertised fluff companies put out there, and actually look at real-world usage.  Once color calibrated, the results can possibly tell a different story.  Hell, I never run a monitor without tweaking the controls a bit to make it look more pristine.

If you re-read my post above, you'll see that I'm not making judgements simply based on what's on Dell's and Apple's websites. Besides the fact that the specs show the Dell to be a better display, I have actually SEEN both displays in front of me, and I can honestly say that the real-life experience actually matches what the specs say. The ACD is a great display (in fact, it used to be my favorite one at some point), but the 2005FPW is simply better, and when you can get it at a significantly lower price, the choice is clear as day.

It's all tying back to the fact that Apple is on their own little island, and the PC realm has a giant continent (let's call it Pangea).

And you're fine with that state of affairs? This is precisely the reason Apple can get away with overcharging customers. If HP made a better 20" display than the 2005FPW and charged less, people would go with the HP, and Dell would be forced to bring down their prices. In the PC market, there's a huge choice, and people go for what is the best and get the best value for their money.

On the other hand, when people buy an Apple computer, most of them feel the need to be locked into buying everything with an Apple logo on it (it's the same reason they'll buy the Airport Extreme, like Chad mentioned earlier), even though there are other, in many cases, better choices out there. That's simply not necessary since the 2005FPW would work just as well with a Mac as it would with a PC, and you would be getting a better display while saving a truckload of cash.

Kudos to those who build for quality, and a lump of coal to those who build crap for $$$.

585024346[/snapback]

I don't know what you're getting at with this post, but if you're referring to Apple as the one that "builds for quality" and Dell as the one that "builds crap," you're mistaken. I still don't get this whole idea of the Apple display being of higher "quality." It simply doesn't make any sense. It's been mentioned time and again that Apple and Dell both got their displays from LG, so neither one manufactures its own displays.

[SpeakNoSparky]

Thankfully, NetRyder, Apple at least got rid of the ADC port. It was a great idea, but now it opens up the doors for users to use other manufacturer's monitors with the Mac. Just think about this whole discussion, this (almost) opens up the idea of a cross-platform KVM solution. If only Apple would change out the keyboard, or keyboard OEMs make a true cross-platform keyboard. DVI video, USB keyboard and mouse...I think that's not too much to ask for those of us that occasionally or frequently use Mac. Add on digital audio I/O for those 5.1 and 7.1 speaker systems, and that could be an awesome setup.

As far the Apple fanaticism is concerned, if nothing else it's a great marketing concept to have a solution for everything under one brand. Does it work well? Being that Apple still only take up a tiny piece of the action, and it keeps that small sliver happy, I'd say they've executed well. Are the products high-quality? Well, some people have found that to be false. Can it reach out to PC users? Apple is sure trying with iPod and iTunes, but I'm not one to predict who the winner will be.

As far as quality goes...well, I used to work for Gateway (it was for the money and watching hot women walk by our store, good thing I snapped out of that). I recommended that my mom and my little brother (who we sent off to college this fall) get Dell machines. They're reliable and fast, and my mom is very happy with her Dell 17" LCD monitor. One dead subpixel, but otherwise it looks great. Apple monitors look great too. They sure as anything don't manufacture them, but they do spec out what's inside them. If Apple made crap (like the 23" with the pink shift) than that's bad juju for everyone who bought them, and moreso to Apple. If Dell sells a better monitor for cheaper, then that's great for everyone including Dell themselves.

[aldo]

Speak, the reason Apple got rid of the ADC port is because a) it couldn't provide enough power and b) no-one could be bothered making graphics cards with the things on. I really doubt cheaper cards and monitors came into the equation.

PS: Please stop posting in that horrible green font. It's making my eyes bleed. Thankyou.

[macman87]

I think the main issue is the percieved 'quality' of Apple displays. I hope this thread has made some people wake up to the fact that if you step out of Steve Jobs reality distortion field for a second these are pretty poor quality 20" panel's compared to stuff that is much cheaper.

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I think most people realise the most of the time, Steve BS in his Keynotes. Did you hear the laugh after he proclaimed that the apple displays are the "best in the industry"? (WWDC 2004)

[Bling3k12]

Just think about this whole discussion, this (almost) opens up the idea of a cross-platform KVM solution.  If only Apple would change out the keyboard, or keyboard OEMs make a true cross-platform keyboard.  DVI video, USB keyboard and mouse...I think that's not too much to ask for those of us that occasionally or frequently use Mac.  Add on digital audio I/O for those 5.1 and 7.1 speaker systems, and that could be an awesome setup.

585024604[/snapback]

I'm confused... Apple now uses DVI, but you could get DVI out of their old ADC monitors (with a breakout box). Their USB keyboards are pretty much standard, except we have some things like F13 through F16 instead of things like Scroll Lock and Print Screen, along with an Option key and a Command key instead of a Windows key. Their USB mouse is a standard mouse, except with one button, and work fine in a Windows environment (until you have to right-click).

No reason you couldn't plug in any Logitech or Microsoft (for example) mouse or keyboard into a KVM and they wouldn't work in OS X. Logitech is great with cross platform keyboards, they even include both Mac and Windows specific keys!

Digital I/O? Optical Out on the G5's?

[Elliott]

An Apple Display on a Macintosh is already calibrated pretty much perfectly, fits with the PowerBooks and PowerMacs, has FireWire and USB ports in it, and a DVI connection. Now I know the Dell has a DVI connection, but I think the low-hassle setup and the beautiful looks of the Cinema Display are worth the extra $500.

[michael.b]

Oh so expensive, but OH SO WORTH IT.

One of the best investments since the iPod. (The iPod came way before the PowerBook. I was a 1st generation owner--still am!)

I couldn't be happier. The only thing, I haven't mastered the hot points on the dual screen, yet, since I resort to only using the cinema display when working on the PowerBook.

I'll have to put them side to side, just for thrills, showing how well they work together, how well they match up. It's a beautiful thing.

And if anyone gets a chance. Hit up the Apple Store. (I don't know if all will participate, especially mini stores, but...) The North Michigan Avenue has two 30'' displays on display, side by side--and wow. It is unbelieveable. Overkill for me, but sure as hell nice to look at.

Edit: P.S. I am looking to get the Altec Lansing 2.1 to match the aesthetics of the cinema and the PowerBook itself. I just am not sure about the extra controllers and such, so I will have to check them out before I buy. :)

[SpeakNoSparky]

I'm confused... Apple now uses DVI, but you could get DVI out of their old ADC monitors (with a breakout box). Their USB keyboards are pretty much standard, except we have some things like F13 through F16 instead of things like Scroll Lock and Print Screen, along with an Option key and a Command key instead of a Windows key. Their USB mouse is a standard mouse, except with one button, and work fine in a Windows environment (until you have to right-click).

No reason you couldn't plug in any Logitech or Microsoft (for example) mouse or keyboard into a KVM and they wouldn't work in OS X. Logitech is great with cross platform keyboards, they even include both Mac and Windows specific keys!

Digital I/O? Optical Out on the G5's?

585030889[/snapback]

I've never seen a DVI-based KVM, though. A 30" Apple Cinema Display to use on both a Mac and PC at the flip of a switch? Nice stuff. I know that mice are no problem, and if keyboard mapping and labeling is done, then we have something.

S/PDIF out on the G5, and S/PDIF out on a PC (usually via SB Audigy or some integrated solutions), into a KVM and out to 5.1 speakers from Logitech or Klipsch. Fun stuff.

[NetRyder]

Now I know the Dell has a DVI connection, but I think the low-hassle setup and the beautiful looks of the Cinema Display are worth the extra $500.

585031282[/snapback]

How is it less hassle-free? You plug in either one and it should just work. What's the difference?

[Bling3k12]

I've never seen a DVI-based KVM, though.  A 30" Apple Cinema Display to use on both a Mac and PC at the flip of a switch?  Nice stuff.  I know that mice are no problem, and if keyboard mapping and labeling is done, then we have something.

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Belkin makes one that I always see. You can't use a 30" on it though, it's not a Dual-Link DVI Port. I hope to get one when I go to college in July to hook up my PC (whenever I get the money to build it) and G5 tower.

[kitchenutensils]

you can ask the same thing about clothes-

why do those musty old raggy looking clothes cost so much less than the super hot designer gear. this is especially evident with girls where they will pay more for a designer bra that only person see's but them, than all of the food they eat in a month.

[michael.b]

you can ask the same thing about clothes-

why do those musty old raggy looking clothes cost so much less than the super hot designer gear. this is especially evident with girls where they will pay more for a designer bra that only person see's but them, than all of the food they eat in a month.

585045940[/snapback]

I tried deciphering that one... and I think I got it...

Are you calling me a girl? :huh:

[Steven]

How is it less hassle-free? You plug in either one and it should just work. What's the difference?

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lol my 2001FP was hasle free....DVI plug in. Computer On...

Look Mom! A SEXY PICTURE! :blush:

So inquiring minds would like ot know how the ACD is "hasle-free" :laugh:

[NetRyder]

So inquiring minds would like ot know how the ACD is "hasle-free" :laugh:

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I don't think we're going to get a real answer. :p

[VGVL]

lol my 2001FP was hasle free....DVI plug in. Computer On...

Look Mom! A SEXY PICTURE! :blush:

So inquiring minds would like ot know how the ACD is "hasle-free" :laugh:

585048938[/snapback]

The ACD does come with a pre-calibrated color profile when you connect it to a Mac. It's a nice thing to have.