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Crippled OpenGL for Windows Vista

I just found out from beyond3d.com that the future of OpenGL on Windows Vista seems very bleak ? specifically, with Vista, OpenGL will be implemented on top of DirectX9, and will be a vanilla OpenGL 1.4 (no extensions, including 1.5/2.0 ARB extensions, no new hardware features until Microsoft says so). Ignoring the feature loss, this is probably a performance loss of up to 50%. It apparently is possible to get a full OpenGL ICD under Vista, but doing so requires disabling the Aero eyecandy UI. So your choices are full OpenGL, but a Windows 2000 desktop, or crippled wrapped OpenGL and Aero.

This not only sucks for OpenGL which has always been at best a second-class citizen on Windows, but it sucks for Mozilla, since our future hardware acceleration strategy has been based on cairo/glitz/OpenGL. It?s feasable to do a Direct3D back-end for cairo at the same layer as glitz, but we were hoping to not have to go that route.

OpenGL is currently the only option for cross-platform graphics; by slowly crippling it in this manner, Microsoft is forcing developers to either move solely to DirectX, or to maintain separate OpenGL and DirectX code paths. Unfortunately, I can see most developers choosing to just drop OpenGL.

There?s more information on the thread on the opengl.org forums.

Source

----------------------------Branch for 1.8 is happening right nowow after this happens the branch builds will be built for 1.5 while the trunk builds will be ongoing development for 2.0 release. The trunk will get all the new features, risky bug fixes, all new rendering engine, performance tweaks and a whole lotta other things.

The branch is complete and the tree is now re-opened for checkins!!! to tell the difference between trunk and branch builds the trunk will have 1.9a1 in the version id and branch will be 1.8b4.

I may start a thread to follow the development towards 2.0 but not sure yet because I do not want to confuse users here between the branch and trunk versions.

just remember if you want stabilty download the branch version, if you want bleeding edge, new features, lots of bug fixes download the trunk. There is lots of risk though for running trunk versions...so use at your own risk!

The branch is complete and the tree is now re-opened for checkins!!! to tell the difference between trunk and branch builds the trunk will have 1.9a1 in the version id and branch will be 1.8b4.

I may start a thread to follow the development towards 2.0 but not sure yet because I do not want to confuse users here between the branch and  trunk versions.

just remember if you want stabilty download the branch version, if you want bleeding edge, new features, lots of bug fixes download the trunk. There is lots of risk though for running trunk versions...so use at your own risk!

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I am confused. The trunk 12-Aug-2005 was 1.8b4 and the 13-Aug-2005 is 1.9a1 The thing that is cunfusing me is I go to the FTP site download that days trunk look at the time and day on it. Go back later and they rolled back to another time or day. So how do I know I am getting the latest trunk? This is the place I go for the trunk Link. Am I going to the proper place?

These two topics both deal with Firefox 2.0 and not firefox 1.5.

The road to Firefox 2.0

Just to let you all know, I've started the graph for the road to 2.0. I know its very, very early but the blocking flags are there so I figured I'd start tracking the bugs. I won't start a thread for it until after 1.5 release so as to not confuse people so you guys will just have to check the link below. Right now I just have the graph for 1.9a1 since that will be the first release towards 2.0

Road to Firefox 2.0

---------------

Future graphcis of Mozilla Products

If you haven't heard by now, I was hired by Mozilla Foundation a month and a half ago to work on the new graphics platform. Since then a lot of progress has been made by Vlad and I. We're using Cairo (through Thebes) for drawing and now on all paltforms. On Windows, I'm using all new Uniscribe handling complex scripts when drawing text and then using cairo to draw. There are quite a few bugs (fonts aren't always bold when they should be, sizes aren't always right, clipping is sometimes bugged, etc). Even with the various font bugs, the things are fairly usable.

Vlad and I are planning to start landing our various changes on to the trunk this week (not built by default) so you can do your own builds, but until then I've got a Windows build you can try here:

firefox-1.0+.en-US.win32-ng.zip

Vlad says he is going to post a Linux build soon (with Glitz support!)

Source

In about a week the new graphics builds will start to be automatic and will end up in this folder http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/fir...al/newgraphics/ after some stability issue are worked out, the new engine will land on the trunk builds for 2.0. Right now the double buffering is turned off and so is the native XP ui but thats just until performance issues are worked out. Other then that and the font issues mentioned above the new engine feels and looks great and is just a little slower right now until the fore mentioned bugs are ironed out.

Update to last post dealing with new graphics engine for 2.0

I've posted a new Windows build here. It is mostly the same as the one I posted yesterday, except with native theme support so it doesn't look like crap anymore. Fonts, clipping, flashing, etc are still busted though.

One of the (few) improvements in the new graphics builds is much better image scaling. Take these two screenshots of a Penny Arcade comic scaled to fit the size of my browser as an example: old and new

Just to let you all know, I am now maintaining the 'The road towards Firefox 2.0 (Bug Report)' but only on my website until 1.5 is released. I'm doing this to try and not confuse people thinking 2.0 is coming soon or whatever. Once 1.5 is released I will once again maintain threads on both neowin and mozillazine. All the information about 2.0 should keep you guys busy on this very boring Sunday evening...and check out the other parts of my site while your there.

The road towards Firefox 2.0 (Bug Report)

Edited by supernova_00

no problem, I just hope that people actually read my newer posts. I feel like they look at the first page and don't feel like reading the rest and they don't know about all the other info since no one posts replying about any of the new stuff. but oh well.

  • 2 weeks later...
Is Firefox ever going to make RSS feeds look "cool" like IE7 and Safari do? I hate with a passion the method Firefox does RSS feeds because links give little to no info about the actual story itself.

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There is an extension that makes it better. It's called Sage. I used it for a while and you can even make your own Style sheets for the feeds. I know you probably mean built in, but I thought I'd give you that info anyway. I don't use it anymore, because Firefox uses more CPU cycles with RSS feeds (or at least use to).

Firefox 1.5 beta locked down last night

We hope to have all the changes for 1.5 beta 1 landed by this evening <i>(last night)</i> so that tomorrow morning's builds will be our first candidates for the beta. We'll spend the day testing the builds and if all goes well we'll have a release by Thursday. If we find problems, we'll try to take low-risk fixes, and spin up a new round of builds so that we can hold to the Thursday release plan.

As soon as we've got Firefox 1.5 beta 1 out the door, we'll start accepting changes for the second beta which is due the first week of October.

Source: Asa Dotzler's Blog

Do not think that because today's builds are 1.5 beta just because the official branding and version numbers have changed. This is done ahead of time to test to make sure that changing those things don't break anything. Tomorrow's build should be the final for beta 1. I will post tomorrow with more info.

Some major ugly changes to the UI were checked in today please read about it here and take my poll.

Please try out todays nightly or the beta 1 tomorrow before responding to the changes. Thanks

EDIT: If you guys don't feel like reading through. Basically changes were done to the menu and breaks the appearence of the windows classic theme on any OS using Windows Classic Theme.

Some major ugly changes to the UI were checked in today please read about it here and take my poll.

Please try out todays nightly or the beta 1 tomorrow before responding to the changes. Thanks

EDIT: If you guys don't feel like reading through. Basically changes were done to the menu and breaks the appearence of the windows classic theme on any OS using Windows Classic Theme.

586492304[/snapback]

I'm actually glad that this has happened.

It means whenever I'm using a "theme" whether it's Windowblinds or StyleXP, that FF will now match everything else, as opposed to being nothing like it.

I'd also "assume" that by doing this, there are no extra GDI stuff inside FF that overwrites the system GDI commands, which as far as I can see would..

a) make it running slightly quicker

b) make it now quite as big

All good, if you ask me :-)

Hey supernova_00, can you post some screenshots of both ways so we can see the difference? The only real difference I see is a little extra spacing. Anything else that I'm missing??

I like things as compact as I can get them, but this doesn't appear to be big difference as far as I can tell.

^ That is a nightly build. Beta 1 will be released tomorrow, keep an eye on mozilla.org and/or mozillazine.org front pages for links when the beta 1 is avaiable.

@ IceDogg: I'll post later tonight since I'm at work right now.

@ Stew Gilray: this is not a patch for native theme rendering which you describe, its merely a half-assed hack to band-aid the real bug, which is not supporting native theme rendering.

This topic is now closed to further replies.
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    • Passkeys: Think of them like a broken heart necklace. Imagine one of those heart necklaces that breaks into two matching pieces. One person keeps one half, and the other person keeps the other half. With passkeys, the website has one half, and you have the other half. If the website gets hacked and someone steals its half, that stolen piece is useless by itself. It cannot unlock your account without your matching half. This particular heart necklace is one of a kind, there is only one in existence. Your half of the necklace has to be stored somewhere. It might be stored on your phone, tablet, computer, security key, or a password manager that can sync it between all your devices. A security key is a small physical device that you keep with you, kind of like a house key, car key, or flash drive. I would not usually recommend a security key as the first option for the average person. For most people, it is easier to use their phone, computer, or a password manager that can sync passkeys between their devices. A security key is more like a spare key you keep in a safe place, just in case you lose access to your other devices or your password manager. Some security keys plug into your computer. Some plug into your phone or tablet. Some get tapped against your device. The idea is simple: a security key can hold another passkey for the same website. Think of it like creating a second one-of-a-kind heart necklace for the same account. One necklace could be paired with your password manager, while another necklace could be paired with your security key. That means the website has more than one matching half on file. One half matches the passkey in your password manager. Another half matches the passkey stored on your security key. So, if you lose access to your phone, computer, or password manager, you would still be able to log in using the passkey stored on your security key. Think of it like keeping an extra special necklace piece on a tiny keychain, stored somewhere safe. The website still has the matching half for that security key, but your half is safely stored inside the little key. A passkey does not automatically exist on every device you own. It lives wherever you save it. If your half is stored on one device, then that device is the one that has the matching piece. For example, if you create the passkey on your Windows computer and it is only saved to that computer, your iPhone does not automatically have that same half. If you create it on your iPhone and it only stays on that iPhone, your Android phone does not automatically have it either. That is where password managers come in. A password manager can act like a protected jewelry box for your passkeys. Instead of your half of the necklace being locked to only one device, the password manager can securely sync that half to your other approved devices. For example, Apple Passwords and iCloud Keychain can sync passkeys between your Apple devices. Google Password Manager can sync passkeys with your Google account. But password managers such as 1Password and Bitwarden can sync passkeys between everything, your phones, tablets and computers. Now, you might ask: “What happens if I lose access to the device that has my passkey?” That depends on where your passkey was saved and what recovery options the website gives you. If your passkey was synced through a password manager, you may be able to sign in from another device that has access to that same password manager. For example, if your passkey is saved in iCloud Keychain, Google Password Manager, 1Password, or Bitwarden, another approved device may still have access to it. If your passkey was saved only on one phone, computer, or security key, and you lose that device, then you may not have your half of the necklace anymore. In that case, you would usually need to use the website’s backup login or account recovery options. A lot of websites that support passkeys still let you fall back to your regular password. So if you lose access to your passkey, the site may still let you log in with your password, a code sent to your email, a text message, a recovery code, or some other account recovery process. That is convenient, but it is also important to understand: if the website still allows password login, then your password still matters. Passkeys are safer than passwords, but if your account still has a password as a backup, you should still use a strong, unique password and turn on two-factor authentication if the website offers it. This is why it is a good idea to have more than one safe way back into important accounts. For example, you might keep your passkey in a syncing password manager, add a second trusted device, save recovery codes somewhere safe, or set up a backup security key. A passkey is very secure, but just like a real key, you need a backup plan in case you lose access to it. Now, you might ask: “What stops a hacker from copying my half of the necklace?” That’s the important part: your half is protected. It is not something you type in, and it is not something the website gets to keep. Think of your half as being locked inside a tiny safe on your phone, computer, security key, or password manager. That safe only opens when you approve it with your fingerprint, face, PIN, or device password. When you log in, the website does not need to see your half. It only needs proof that your half matches its half. Your actual half is not handed over to the website. This is different from a password. With a password, you type the secret into the website. If you type it into a fake website, the hacker now has it. With a passkey, you are not typing your secret into the website. Your device is proving you have the matching half without giving the half away. That also helps protect you from fake websites. If someone makes a fake login page that looks like the real site, your device can tell it is not the real match. It will not use your passkey there. Now, could someone use your passkey if they stole your device, got into your password manager, or somehow unlocked the safe that holds your half? Yes, that is why your device password, PIN, fingerprint, face unlock, and password manager security still matter. But a hacker cannot just steal your passkey from the website or trick you into typing it into a fake page like they can with a password. That is why passkeys are safer than passwords. The two matching pieces have to come together, like two lovebirds who were once separated and are finally reunited.
    • Newegg offers insane combo deal on Amazon Prime Day 2026 that beats Steam Machine by Sayan Sen Building a PC is undoubtedly difficult nowadays but with this epic combo deal, Newegg is trying to make it as easy for you as it is possible. If you are making a new one or even upgrading an old system to a new Windows 11 device, this combo bundle is truly unmissable as you get AMD's Ryzen 9800X3D, a compatible X870 motherboard, a 240mm AIO liquid cooler and finally a Samsung 990 PRO SSD all for under $1000 (purchase link under the specs table down below). This should beat out the newly launched Steam Machine from Valve in terms of performance and performance per dollar especially if you are willing to set Linux up on it. Essentially with this combo you will get the AMD Ryzen 7 9800X3D 8-core 3D V cache CPU, Samsung's 990 PRO 2TB NVMe SSD, the MSI MAG X870 TOMAHAWK WIFI ATX Motherboard, and finally the Cooler Master Elite Liquid 240. Thanks to that massive vertically stacked L3 cache, the X3D desktop processors, including the 9800X3D, also come with the benefit of not needing fast memory. Even DDR5-5600 should be plenty for it. The technical specifications of the Ryzen 7 9800X3D are given in the table below: Specification Value Architecture Zen 5 Cores / Threads 8 / 16 Base Clock 4.7 GHz Max Boost Clock Up to 5.2 GHz L1 Cache 640 KB L2 Cache 8 MB L3 Cache 96 MB Total Cache 104 MB CPU Core Process TSMC 4nm FinFET I/O Die Process TSMC 6nm FinFET Socket AM5 Default TDP 120W Max Temperature (Tjmax) 95°C Thermal Solution Not included Memory Type DDR5 Max Capacity 256 GB Memory Speeds 2x1R: DDR5-5600 2x2R: DDR5-5600 4x1R: DDR5-3600 4x2R: DDR5-3600 PCIe Version PCIe 5.0 PCIe Lanes (Total/Usable) 28 / 24 USB 3.2 Gen 2 (10Gbps) 4 USB 2.0 1 Graphics Cores 2 CU RDNA 2 Frequency 2200 MHz DisplayPort over USB-C Yes Overclocking Unlocked Up next we have the tech specs for the MSI MAG X870 TOMAHAWK WIFI Motherboard: Specification Value Chipset AMD X870 CPU Support AMD Ryzen 9000 / 8000 / 7000 Series Desktop Processors Socket AM5 Memory Slots 4 × DDR5 UDIMM Maximum Memory Capacity 256GB Memory Support DDR5 8400–5600 MT/s (OC), DDR5 5600–4800 MT/s (JEDEC) Integrated Graphics Outputs 1 × HDMI 2.1 FRL (up to 8K 60Hz) 2 × USB4 Type-C with DisplayPort 1.4 HBR3 (up to 4K 60Hz) Expansion Slots PCI_E1: PCIe 5.0 x16 (CPU) PCI_E2: PCIe 3.0 x1 (Chipset) PCI_E3: PCIe 4.0 x4 (Chipset) Audio Realtek ALC4080 Codec 7.1-Channel USB High Performance Audio Supports up to 32-bit/384kHz playback on front panel S/PDIF output M.2 Slots 4 × M.2 M2_1: PCIe 5.0 x4 (CPU, 22110/2280) M2_2: PCIe 5.0 x4 (CPU, 2280/2260) M2_3: PCIe 4.0 x2 (Chipset, 2280/2260) M2_4: PCIe 4.0 x4 (Chipset, 2280/2260) SATA Ports 4 × SATA 6Gb/s RAID Support RAID 0, 1, 5, 10 for M.2 NVMe storage devices Rear USB Ports 4 × USB 2.0 3 × USB 5Gbps Type-A 2 × USB 10Gbps Type-A 1 × USB 10Gbps Type-C 2 × USB4 40Gbps Type-C Front USB Headers 4 × USB 2.0 4 × USB 5Gbps Type-A 1 × USB 20Gbps Type-C LAN Realtek 8126-CG 5G LAN Wireless Wi-Fi 7 (M.2 Key-E module pre-installed) Supports 2.4GHz / 5GHz / 6GHz bands Up to 5.8Gbps Supports 802.11 a/b/g/n/ac/ax/be Bluetooth Bluetooth 5.4, MLO, 4KQAM Internal Power Connectors 1 × 24-pin ATX Power 2 × CPU Power Connectors 1 × PCIe 8-pin Power Connector Fan Headers 1 × CPU Fan 1 × Combo Fan (Pump/System) 6 × System Fan RGB Headers 3 × Addressable V2 RGB (JARGB_V2) 1 × RGB LED (JRGB) Other Internal Headers 1 × EZ Conn-header 2 × Front Panel Headers 1 × Chassis Intrusion 1 × Front Audio 1 × TPM 2.0 Header Debug Features 4 × EZ Debug LEDs 1 × EZ Digit Debug LED Rear I/O Ports Clear CMOS Button Flash BIOS Button HDMI 2 × USB 40Gbps Type-C 1 × USB 10Gbps Type-C 4 × USB 10Gbps Type-A 3 × USB 5Gbps Type-A 4 × USB 2.0 5G LAN Port Wi-Fi/Bluetooth Antenna Connectors Audio Connectors Form Factor ATX The Samsung 990 PRO is a PCIe Gen4 NVMe SSD and still one of the fastest drives available today for under $500. Speaking of fast, sequential reads and writes are rated at 7450 MB/s and 6900 MB/s, respectively. The random throughputs for reads and writes are 1400K IOPS and 1550K IOPS, respectively. The 990 PRO is based on Samsung's 7th Gen V-NAND flash, and it too is TLC. It packs 2 gigs of LPDDR4 DRAM cache, which helps the random performance. The endurance rating for this is 1200 TBW (terabytes written), which should be sufficient for most users. The Samsung 990 PRO is compatible with the PlayStation 5, but if you are going to use the 990 PRO on a PC, check out the Samsung Magician app that lets you track your drive's health, update its firmware, customize various settings, and more. The tech specs are given below: Specification Value Interface PCIe Gen 4.0 x4, NVMe 2.0 Form Factor M.2 2280 Controller Samsung In-house Controller NAND Flash 3D TLC DRAM Cache 2GB LPDDR4 Sequential Read (Max) 7,450 MB/s Sequential Write (Max) 6,900 MB/s Random Read (4K) Up to 1,400,000 IOPS Random Write (4K) Up to 1,550,000 IOPS TBW (Endurance) 1,200 TBW MTBF 1,500,000 hours Operating Temperature 0°C to 70°C Storage Temperature -40°C to 85°C Shock Resistance 1,500G / 0.5ms Heatsink No Get the combo deal at this link: AMD Ryzen 7 9800X3D, Samsung 990 PRO 2TB, MSI MAG X870 TOMAHAWK WIFI motherboard, Cooler Master Elite Liquid 240: $784.99 + $25 off with promo code FTTF77: $759.99 (Sold and Shipped by Newegg US) Good to know This Newegg deal is U.S. specific, and not available in other regions unless specified. We only use first-party seller links (at the time of article publishing); ensure that you purchase from a first-party seller link only. Check out Today's Deals on Amazon | or our recent tech deals. Become a Prime member (for Students or SNAP) via Neowin Get Prime Access - Prime for half price (for qualifying Medicaid, EBT, SNAP) Subscribe to Prime Video, Audible Plus, Music Unlimited or Kindle Unlimited via Neowin As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.
    • I heard from a lot of people that driver support for the latest games when RDNA first came out (Radeon 5000 series) was pretty bad, but if you didn't buy the card on day one, or were not trying to play the latest titles, then you were isolated from that issue. Other than that, it's been good and only getting better.
    • Meta launches new AI glasses in 26 styles and Muse Spark multimodal capabilties by Pradeep Viswanathan Meta today announced a new line of Meta Glasses in partnership with EssilorLuxottica. The new AI glasses build on the company’s existing smart glasses portfolio, which is sold under the Ray-Ban Meta and Oakley Meta brands. The new Meta Glasses start at just $299, are compatible with prescription lenses, and will be available in 26 styles across different colors, lenses, and frames. At launch, Meta Glasses will be available in three frame styles. The Meta Adventurer features a clean rectangular design and comes in Standard and Large sizes. The Meta Fury is a bolder frame for users who want a stronger look. Meta Glasses by Kylie is a slim oval frame designed in collaboration with Kylie Jenner. Similar to existing Meta AI Glasses, the new Meta Glasses include a dedicated action button that can be used to quickly access Meta AI or launch a favorite feature. They also feature open-ear speakers for calls, music, and more. Meta has also included a multi-mic array with wind noise reduction for calls and messaging. Users can capture photos and videos hands-free using voice commands. Meta claims more than eight hours of battery life, while the portable charging case can provide up to 40 additional hours. As expected, Meta Glasses come pre-loaded with Meta AI powered by Muse Spark from day one. Muse Spark is the first model from Meta Superintelligence Labs with improved multimodal capabilities. The same Meta AI upgrade is also now available on existing Ray-Ban Meta and Oakley Meta Glasses in the US and Canada via an update. With the Muse Spark-powered AI assistant, Meta AI in the new glasses can provide smarter answers, understand what the user is seeing, and help with daily tasks such as calendar management and navigation. Meta also announced an upcoming feature called the dynamic photo feature, which captures multiple frames and recommends the best one. Pedestrian navigation is also coming soon to these glasses. Meta is also adding support for 14 new live translation languages, including Japanese, Mandarin Chinese, Hindi, and Korean. The new Meta Glasses are available starting today through Meta.com, Best Buy, Amazon, LensCrafters, Sunglass Hut, and select retailers.
    • is that a personal preference? whether it is or isn't, i get where you're coming from. i try to get and use fully open sourced applications whenever i can but there are instances where i find a superior product that is closed sourced. in these cases i do my best to learn about the company, who operates it, their background, parent and sub structure etc. to some extent, depending on "the smell test". i really believe that Syncback is really and truly something great. even if you don't use it, it's always worth a recommendation to someone else, especially if that someone else is not very computer literate. for someone of your calibre you, you'll manage just fine with Syncthing, no doubt about it.
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