Mac Mini vs. Comparable Spec PC

[BajiRav]

The Mac is document-centric, not application-centric.  You cannot open more than one instance of an application, but you can open multiple documents within an application.  If you have multiple documents open, you can click and hold (or right click if you have a two button mouse) on the icon in the dock to get a pop-up window with a list of the documents you have open (along with a few other options, such as quitting the program, hiding it, or showing it in the Finder) .  This is a design element that Microsoft sort of "borrowed" to create the new organization scheme for XP.  The Dock will dynamically re-scale itself to allow for the number of icons being displayed.

As for why I was gone for a while earlier:  I am online at work during the day(when I made some of my earlier posts), and often late in the evening (right now), but have things to do in the afternoon after work.

585622585[/snapback]

if this is true then what about Cmd + Tab...if mac is document centric then why does doing Cmd+Tab brings u to Application switching instead of document switching (like Alt+tab on PC)

[QuarterSwede]

I really don?t care that you get along just fine with one mouse button Steve. I couldn?t be more happy for you that OS X is optimised for people like you. Unfortunately though, because OS X it tailored to people that can?t handle more than one mouse button at a time it extends across the whole hardwareright down to the laptopsps which are similarly crippled. I do not find any of the workarounds available to be suitable just to cater for the dexterity and functionally challenged.

585622176[/snapback]

The idea is that you have two hands. Count them, one, two ... ok. Now one hand is on the keyboard (not down you pants) while the other is on the mouse. Press and hold the Option button and viola! a "right click" menu appears (I know that isn't what it really is). It annoyed me at first because I am so "use to" a two button mouse. That's where the problem lies. You are use to a two button mouse and therefore it's harder to do things a different way. Gee what do you know, you can use almost any USB mouse with OS X? Compatibility, isn't it a great thing!

I'm being sarcastic because there is nothing wrong with a two button mouse. It does work. It may not work as well as a two button mouse or a mouse with a scrollwheel but it does work. And for people new to computing it's easier than having more than one button. Also I understand where you are coming from as I like two button mice with scrollwheels which is why I think Apple should give you an option when you buy a computer from them.

Nor do I understand Apple?s stubborn obstinance in introducing new hardware features such as scroll wheels or scroll areas on trackpads. It?s like 2005 guys! I can?t believe they still think transparent plastic in hardware is more important than a friggin scroll wheel!

585622176[/snapback]

Apple introduced a way to two finger scroll and navigate web pages and pictures in the updated Powerbook line. It's actually easier for me to use than the scroll areas in PC notebooks.

But I completely understand where you are coming from as far as the scrollwheel goes. I mean, that is just an extremely useful idea, no way around it.

Edited March 16, 2005 by Jstphish

[Elliott]

if this is true then what about Cmd + Tab...if mac is document centric then why does doing Cmd+Tab? brings u to Application switching instead of document switching (like Alt+tab on PC)

585622784[/snapback]

Uh, no. Both Command+Tab (on OS X) and Alt+Tab (on Windows) are application switchers. Since Windows does things based on instances of applications, Alt+Tab becomes a sort of "window switcher". Then again, Windows has applications which break this multiple-application-instances trend. Those applications are called MDI, or Multiple Document Interface applications. Opera and most Adobe apps are shining examples of MDI. I believe Alt+Tab doesn't switch between the windows inside one instance of Photoshop.

Document switching on OS X is done by Expos?, by the dock, or by Command+~.

[Heyo]

The Mac is document-centric, not application-centric. You cannot open more than one instance of an application, but you can open multiple documents within an application. If you have multiple documents open, you can click and hold (or right click if you have a two button mouse) on the icon in the dock to get a pop-up window with a list of the documents you have open (along with a few other options, such as quitting the program, hiding it, or showing it in the Finder) . This is a design element that Microsoft sort of "borrowed" to create the new organization scheme for XP. The Dock will dynamically re-scale itself to allow for the number of icons being displayed.

As for why I was gone for a while earlier:  I am online at work during the day(when I made some of my earlier posts), and often late in the evening (right now), but have things to do in the afternoon after work.

585622585[/snapback]

Thanks for answering my question. To say Microsoft borried this idea from OS X is pushing things a bit don't you think? We are talking of two new OS's literally released months apart. Both would have been feature complete and in testing for months. I'm sure said feature was either a) obvious to both interface developers or b) your latter explanation of them both borrowing it from an existing source is true.

For the record, as far as I know Windows 2000 does not support task stacking. I have it right in front of me as we speak running SP4.

[Heyo]

I almost missed this part.  The reason Mac users keep bringing up the Quick Launch bar is that it is the element most like the Dock. The Dock is just a convenient way of launching frequently used programs.  Yes, it also serves as a task manager as well, but it seems that "most people" don't find this confusing at all (or else there would be a massive amount of talk about it on message boards).

585622724[/snapback]

Here's me thinking you guys keep bringing it up because you need some fuel for your "the Windows Taskbar is cluttered" argument.... :p

Oh, and "most people" do not run OS X period. Perhaps that would explain the silence on message boards...

[Heyo]

I'm being sarcastic because there is nothing wrong with a two button mouse.  It does work.  It may not work as well as a two button mouse or a mouse with a scrollwheel but it does work.  And for people new to computing it's easier than having more than one button.  Also I understand where you are coming from as I like two button mice with scrollwheels which is why I think Apple should give you an option when you buy a computer from them.

Apple introduced a way to two finger scroll and navigate web pages and pictures in the updated Powerbook line.  It's actually easier for me to use than the scroll areas in PC notebooks.

I can follow the argument that one mouse button may be easier for people new to computing to some degree, but then that factors in all sorts of variabilities like how much easier does it make it, and is it really worth screwing everyone else over to support these dunces?

Personally, I think not.

Apple will never, ever, ever ship a two button mouse btw. They can't. Soon as they do they know it's basically GAME OVER for the one button mouse.

[QuarterSwede]

... but then that factors in all sorts of variabilities like how much easier does it make it, and is it really worth screwing everyone else over to support these dunces?

585623171[/snapback]

Some of these "dunces" run the world.

[Heyo]

Some of these "dunces" run the world.

585623288[/snapback]

Well it only takes one mouse button to fire off your long-range, tactical, thermonuclear weapons. Point and and click... ;)

[ponytail]

I can follow the argument that one mouse button may be easier for people new to computing to some degree, but then that factors in all sorts of variabilities like how much easier does it make it, and is it really worth screwing everyone else over to support these dunces?

Personally, I think not.

Apple will never, ever, ever ship a two button mouse btw. They can't. Soon as they do they know it's basically GAME OVER for the one button mouse.

585623171[/snapback]

I'm a recent ( 1 month) convert from Windows to Mac and am having no problems at all with the one button mouse. It is pretty easy to use, I just needed to get away from a windows mindset and realize things just work in OSX without much in the way of tinkering on my end.

Getting used to a mouse after using early home computers like the TRS-80 and others as a kid was more difficult.

[Southern Patriot]

For the record, as far as I know Windows 2000 does not support task stacking. I have it right in front of me as we speak running SP4.

585623115[/snapback]

I didn't think it did, but didn't have a copy nearby to check when I was posting, so I couldn't be sure. Thanks for the confirmation.

[Southern Patriot]

Oh, and "most people" do not run OS  X period. Perhaps that would explain the silence on message boards...

585623133[/snapback]

By that, I meant Mac-related message boards, of course. :p

[threetonesun]

Again, I am not using Windows as a reference. I am trying to speak in generic terms of how *I* would like an interface to work, not in terms of what I am using.

Fair enough, that's the very reason I bought a Mac. I never maximize windows, I rarely use the taskbar if I am using Windows, so OSX makes a lot more sense to me. I've also been a fan of blackbox, where you keep running programs in a right click menu.

BTW. You guys you need to get off Quick Launch. I've already mentioned it's been deprecated in newer versions of Windows to be an optional element. They have done a few other things like clean the desktop up to nothing but the Recycle Bin and put in mechanism to prevent users from wandering in to the "My Programs" folder to try launch things. In Windows your primary and immeidiate mechanism for launching programs is the "Start" menu. That is it. Yes, older programs still want to spray their icons around like a mad women's sh|t (which I find immensley annoying) but it is something MS realise needs to be cleaned up and are working on and have put mechanisms in place to restrict this sort of behaviour.

I'd say about half of the programs I installed in Windows asked if I wanted to add a Quick Launch icon. AFAIK, none ask to add themselves to your dock in OSX. The first time you boot our Win2k boxes at work there are about 10 icons in the Quicklaunch bar.

It personal preference. The Start menu (Win) and Apps folder (OSX) are identical in use. Some people like loading up their quicklaunch bar in Windows, some people like adding icons to the dock in OSX.

Ok so when I saw my Dock growing that may have actually been because open documents were being added to it. My assumption has been that it may have been caused by me running programs that were not in it initially.

How does the Dock prevent the "clutter" that you guys were complaining about with the Windows Taskbar btw? i.e. What organisation mechanism does it use when too many icons are on it, or was this just handballed off by the Dock designers for Expose to handle?

PS I had a bit of a chuckle about Expose in the tutorial. You know I had to tell my friend that bought a Mini and subsequently tried to get me to buy a Mini that the feature existed. How he could have missed it in the tutorial... LOL

585622481[/snapback]

The dock does not equal the taskbar. Nothing gets added to the right side of the dock unless you minimize it there. In general use, the only thing on the right side of my dock is iTunes and the trash can. Every open document is handled on the desktop. Expose certainly helps, but the real usage of OSX comes from the fact that most programs either open partial windows, or you use the + button which maximizes to fit, not to fill. So you never really run out of screen space like in Windows.

As for learning Expose, I'm almost certain I saw something on it when I started up my mini, but if not, I read about it on apple.com. There's quicktime videos there that describe all the major features of OSX, including Expose ;)

[QuarterSwede]

Well it only takes one mouse button to fire off your long-range, tactical, thermonuclear weapons.  Point and and click... ;)

585623333[/snapback]

Lol, :laugh: That's better than I could have put it.

[iconboy]

just my 2 cents... Someone in the thread said that longhorn will have a significantly different GUI- ALL signs point to it having pretty much the same GUI with a stupid bar ont he said taking up more room. Dont get me wrong- Im a windows user and I like the bar idea, but something "different" definently not,

I have 2 questions for MAC users... when you are using an application, what happens to the dock? does it dissapear and when you hover the mouse near the bottom it pops up again? doesnt it get in the way of your work?

Also, how do you live with no right click? and if u got a usb mouse with a right click and hooked it upto a mac would u get right click function back- or would is be a useless mouse button that doesnt do anything!?

[threetonesun]

I have 2 questions for MAC users...  when you are using an application, what happens to the dock? does it dissapear and when you hover the mouse near the bottom it pops up again? doesnt it get in the way of your work?

Also, how do you live with no right click? and if u got a usb mouse  with a right click and hooked it upto a mac would u get right click function back- or would is be a useless mouse button that doesnt do anything!?

585625154[/snapback]

You can have the dock auto-hide (have it pop up whenever your mouse goes to the bottom of the screen) or fixed, and all your programs expand only to the edge of the dock, so it never gets in the way. The only time it could be an issue is if you're working on something that requires horizontal scrolling, but since you can always expand to fit, and a lot of macs are widescreen, it's hardly an issue.

Yes, you can use right click. I have an MX duo, I can use every button on the mouse, including the scroll wheel. Unlike Windows though, there's nothing that needs to be done with the right click, everything is icon or menu driven.

[Southern Patriot]

I have 2 questions for MAC users...? when you are using an application, what happens to the dock? does it dissapear and when you hover the mouse near the bottom it pops up again? doesnt it get in the way of your work?

Also, how do you live with no right click? and if u got a usb mouse? with a right click and hooked it upto a mac would u get right click function back- or would is be a useless mouse button that doesnt do anything!?

585625154[/snapback]

You can set the Dock to autohide if you like, but by default, applications know not to put their windows behind the dock.

The Mac interface is designed to use only a single button, but it can take advantage of multi-button mice if you hook one up.

edit: I see threetonsun beat me to it, I had started my reply and had to answer the phone before I got finished typing it.

[iconboy]

so if i were to get a mac with an mx duo and i highlighted some text and i right clicked on it... a small menu wouldnt open up with a copy/paste option?

[threetonesun]

so if i were to get a mac with an mx duo and i highlighted some text and i right clicked on it... a small menu wouldnt open up with a copy/paste option?

585625730[/snapback]

Yup. And spell check in most apps, speech recognition, a few other things.

But honestly, cut/paste/copy should be done by keyboard. If you have an MX Duo, the commands are even printed on the corresponding keys!

[patseguin Global Moderator]

Apple will never, ever, ever ship a two button mouse btw. They can't. Soon as they do they know it's basically GAME OVER for the one button mouse.

585623171[/snapback]

They are working on a 2 button mouse right now.

http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=951

[Heyo]

They are working on a 2 button mouse right now.

http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=951

585625959[/snapback]

LOL... even as a non-Apple user (although I tried) I know that I would trust "news" from AppleInsider about as much as I'd trust a used car salesperson.

Apple sites are notorious for hyping complete rediculous rumours that eventuate in absolutely nothing. :whistle:

[Heyo]

By that, I meant Mac-related message boards, of course. :p

585624091[/snapback]

I know. I just thought it was kind of like asking members of a cult if they have any issues with their leader... ;)

[Heyo]

I'd say about half of the programs I installed in Windows asked if I wanted to add a Quick Launch icon. AFAIK, none ask to add themselves to your dock in OSX. The first time you boot our Win2k boxes at work there are about 10 icons in the Quicklaunch bar.

585624418[/snapback]

If you are lucky enough for them to ask you that is... That is one of my absolute pet hates about Windows. Many application installers spray crap all over the interface, or the OEMs fill up the Start Menu with crap that they want you to see for marketing purposes. If they were able to address this in Longhorn I'd be over the moon, but I very much doubt it because the root of the cause is that the Windows interface is polluted by it's success- all sorts of political and financial forces shape it. A company spraying its' icons about everywhere to get you to try out XYZ product or ZXY service is a symptom of that.

A point of interest... the QL bar was probably put in there because it had an icon so you could easily minimise all your open windows and show your desktop. Since the desktop has been deprecated in new versions of XP it is no longer required, hence why QL is now just an option. <- This is just my opinion, not absolute fact.

...but the real usage of OSX comes from the fact that most programs either open partial windows, or you use the + button which maximizes to fit, not to fill. So you never really run out of screen space like in Windows.

585624418[/snapback]

Yeah I saw that behaviour. It was part of my frustration with using OS X. I want to be able to maximise windows. I like having a full screen open for my word processor or other work. In Windows this is a personal choice. If you are focussed on a particular piece of work then you can maximise it and use the full display available. Otherwise you can fit the window to whatever size you like. I can't stand how I could not seem to easily achieve this in OS X with the interface presented.

I know this is another thing that comes down to "well that is the Mac way of doing things", but I don't want to do things the way the Mac wants me to, I want to do things *my* way. Windows comes out tops here.

[shodan]

I know this is another thing that comes down to "well that is the Mac way of doing things", but I don't want to do things the way the Mac wants me to, I want to do things *my* way. Windows comes out tops here.

585627805[/snapback]

Well, again I don't get your point, in this particular case you need to do the same workaround to have things in "your" way. Let's suppose in Os X you want the window to be maximzed to fix the entire desktop (note that some apps that require the full space, lke imovie, iphoto or garageband always maximixe to fill the desktop with the + button, while apps like safari or word only maximize to have all the inside shown) you have to manually drag the window to enalarge it untill it fill the desktop.

Otherwise in windows, if you want a window to enlarge just to fit the contents, you have to manually do it, while you can have it maximized in full screen with a click.

Once again it depends of how "your" way is, to me for example, after years of using Windows, I found the OS X way more productive than the Windows one, but it's just a personal opinion.

[Southern Patriot]

I know this is another thing that comes down to "well that is the Mac way of doing things", but I don't want to do things the way the Mac wants me to, I want to do things *my* way. Windows comes out tops here.

585627805[/snapback]

And what if in Windows you actually WANTED to resize your window to fit its contents? Is there an easy way to do that except by manually resizing the window, just as you would have to do on the Mac if you wanted your window to take up the full screen?

[Southern Patriot]

I know. I just thought it was kind of like asking members of a cult if they have any issues with their leader...    ;)

585627713[/snapback]

Are you trying to tell me that Mac users love every element of the Mac, its hardware, and interface? If you truly believe that then you are incredibly naive. Mac message boards are generally full of people that have one problem or another. My personal pet peeve with OS X is that you cannot copy one folder over the top of another with the same name and simply add the contents of one to the other (as would happen on Windows). The new folder simply takes the place of the old one, and your old files are gone. Very, VERY annoying (and I've seen others here who share this view).