North Carolina Wins the National Championship

[mattmatik]

If Illinois had shot their season avg, they win easy. They had so many open looks that just didn't go down. While UNC won, I'd have to say that the better team didn't.

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That's the case for every team.

I agree that some of the foul calls were ticky-tack...but referees usually favor the more aggressive team. Illinois shot 40 3-point field goals...rarely, if ever, did they try to drive the basket. That was their downfall, in my opinion. They were dominate on the offensive boards, why oh why they never attacked the basket is beyond me.

The best 2 teams played tonight and the best team won. Great tournament.

[DreAming in DigITal]

As stated in the other thread...the last moving screen was called around 10 years ago...It simply isn't called anymore.

If Illinois had shot their season avg, they win easy. They had so many open looks that just didn't go down. While UNC won, I'd have to say that the better team didn't.

worst officiated final i've seen in a long while. there was maybe one or two moving screens that shoulda been called, but thats about it.

the never ending nickle and dimers on illinois' end, and the constant uncalled hacking on UNCs end was just too much to overcome, although they actually came pretty damn close. with neutral refs, i'd still put money on illinois any day of the week.

Good Lord..The excuses people have always blow me away. I'm not a huge fan of either team, but people one here are acting like Illi was on another level as UNC, and the only reason they lost was because of the "refs". Typical.

Why not just admit they got beat because they were DOMINATED in the paint, they chucked up WAAAAAAY to many 3's, and UNCs defense kept them from getting any penetration.

Obviously some of the fouls were picky, but like I said earlier that goes both ways and didn't effect the outcome of the game. You can't expect to have fouls called on UNC if Illi didn't take the ball to the rim...shooting from the arch doesn't get you many fouls called. Plus when you have a big man like Sean May getting the ball in the post as much as he did, you have to expect that the defending team is going to have a bunch of fouls called against them while trying to defend May.

So enough with the excuses and Big 10 "fanboyism"... :whistle:

[BroChaos Veteran]

of course you are going to get dominated in the paint when your best big man fouls out in 9 minutes on BS calls.

how would UNC fans have felt if may foulded out on 5 quick nickle & dime calls, none of which were even defending a shot? they would be absolutely livid, just like us illini fans are.

not to mention it's not hard to make 10/11 layups when your fat body just absolutely runs over the defender, and you don't get called with a single charge. there's something called defensive position that the refs obviously didn't care about either. if a defender is standing his ground and posting you up, you are NOT allowed to shove him back and then take the shot.

[DreAming in DigITal]

of course you are going to get dominated in the paint when your best big man fouls out in 9 minutes on BS calls. 

how would UNC fans have felt if may foulded out on 5 quick nickle & dime calls, none of which were even defending a shot?  they would be absolutely livid, just like us illini fans are. 

not to mention it's not hard to make 10/11 layups when your fat body just absolutely runs over the defender, and you don't get called with a single charge.  there's something called defensive position that the refs obviously didn't care about either.  if a defender is standing his ground and posting you up, you are NOT allowed to shove him back and then take the shot.

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If he kept his hands to himself he wouldn't have fouled out in 9 minutes...you simply can't hand check and they'll call it 9 outta 10 times. Hand checks are a sign that the defender simply can't cover his man and needs the extra space so make up for it.

Also position must me established to get a charge...you can't just jump in front of someone and expect a call. You have to control the ground your on. If he couldn't cover Sean May then he shoulda been moved to someone he could handle. Thats the coaches fault. Illi simply didn't have anyone to put a body on May and stop him.

[BroChaos Veteran]

position was established. it was on a post up, the defender is just standing there. teh ball game, may turns and lowers his shoulder, defender goes flying backwards, easy layup. it happened almost every time...

i have no problem calling those hand check fouls (even though they weren't all hand checks) on augustine, but you gotta call it on both ends. all i want is consistency, and it wasn't there.

[DreAming in DigITal]

position was established.  it was on a post up, the defender is just standing there.  teh ball game, may turns and lowers his shoulder, defender goes flying backwards, easy layup.  it happened almost every time...

i have no problem calling those hand check fouls (even though they weren't all hand checks) on augustine, but you gotta call it on both ends.  all i want is consistency, and it wasn't there.

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I hear what your saying man. I just think that the refs made up for it on the other end by letting the moving screens slide.

[....]

position was established.  it was on a post up, the defender is just standing there.  teh ball game, may turns and lowers his shoulder, defender goes flying backwards, easy layup.  it happened almost every time...

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That's what was driving me nuts....as a post player you cannot lower your shoulder and drive shoulder first, which May did over and over and over again.

[DreAming in DigITal]

That's what was driving me nuts....as a post player you cannot lower your shoulder and drive shoulder first, which May did over and over and over again.

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Like I said...It was more than made up for on the other end of the floor. If they called all the moving screens Illi would have been starting the fat guy in the front row eating a hotdog.

[bigbluepride35]

Watching my tape of the game and I'm realizing a few things. I'm replaying in slow mo' on some calls that people were saying were controversial and honestly trying to be as impartial as i can be. A stat to keep in mind. During the regular season Illinois averaged 22 3-point attempts per game. During the last three against 'Zona, Louisville and UNC 35-35-40. That's simply TOO much. Out of 70 FG attempts on Monday 40 were 3s, that's 57% of their total shots. :

FIRST HALF

1.) Early in the game they said Williams can easily overpower Felton and should take him to the net. Wiliams failed to do that most of the game.

2.) Augustine's first foul WAS legit (he bumped Felton on a lay-up). It was a solid body bump.

3.) Man I'd LOVE to see Brown and Felton go head-to-head in a dribbling skills competition.

4.) Even with their starting five Illinois wasn't putting anyone down low on offense.

5.) First 7 minutes of the game Illinois had TWO baskets inside. One on a fast break by Brown, one on a put-back by Ingram. They didn't even TRY going inside, and this was before any foul-trouble.

6.) Augustine's second foul, a charge against Scott, also legit. So the first two fouls he had, that kept him out of the majority of the first half, were fair.

7.) 3-on-1 break for Illinois at 6:04 and Head takes a (missed) 3 . Highlights Illinois' problem allll night long. 3-on-1 and you don't take it strong to the rack?

8.) When Powell got "creamed" watch again. First time up it was all ball. Second time, Marvin Williams was set with hands straight up. Then the ball was up-for-grabs. On a 50-50 ball they're not going to call a bump.

9.) Late in the first half when UNC went back to man-to-man and Felton had 2 fouls, Williams refused to put the ball on the floor and take Felton to the rack trying to draw the 3rd foul.

10.) Letting the shot clock run out with 3.9 secs. Illinois just wasn't playing smart the whole first half. It wasn't the refs' fault. Augustine's first two fouls were legit so you can't blame the refs that he wasn't there. Even when he was, they didn't put the ball inside at all.

11.) BOOG was saying they don't call the moving screens anymore. Something else I noticed they let go, a LOT. After baskets when the teams were inbounding and trying to run in transition. The inbounders were half stepping over the baseline quite often, on both teams. I mean not that it changed anything but in my kids' league they still call violations. :p

12.) Illinois 5-19 3pt FGs in the half, UNC 6-11.

SECOND HALF

1.) The first reach foul on Augustine was a touch. But hey he did cath McCants' arm. But why is he at the top of the key and not guarding May anyway? The one that immediately followed, could've been called on Augustine for a reach OR Powell for a block. They picked Augustine. Tough break but a dumb reach anyway. Again Illinois didn't play smart ball. THAT's what killed them more than anything.

2.) Not that it really matters but they completely missed Brown raking Noel's eye. I have yet to see the sixth man emerge for Illinois.

3.) Push off called against May ay 13:47? If you want to say Augustine's were questionable so was that. Powell just flopped, for the THIRD time this game.

4.) Bruce Weber was Illniois' sixth man lol. Guy was on the court almost as much as his players. Probably spent more time on it than Augustine lol. Not saying that meant anyhting at all so calm yourselves, just thought it was funny. At one point he even got warned. Guy's got emotion though, have to give him that.

5.) 12:37-and one for May. Call on Powell was a tough one there.

6.) 10 mins left. Illinois still isn't putting people down low at all. And the push-off called on Jawad Williams agiants Powell? Eh

7.) Felton's thrid foul at 7:12, what reach? Thet didn't show a replay so I don't know for sure but from the real-time occurrence I didn't see anything.

8.) 6:49 left-Augustine's last foul. They were both pushing and shoving. THAT was the one call on him i think was AWFUL. The other four were acceptable IMO.

9.) 6:15 left-They got M. Williams on a similar call they made against Augustine. Should've kept the whistle in their pockets on BOTH.

10.) 5:40 left-McCants bumped on a lay-up. Good non-call though. Just like when Powell was "mugged" and I said M. Williams had his feet set and arms straight up, on this one, Ingram was the same.

11.) 5:34 left-Felton's fourth foul. He deserved the foul but Brown should have been more concerned with going for the three-point play rather than hamming it up to get the call. Need to go stronger and REALLY make him pay for the bump.

12.) 5:08-Felton's three over Brown AND Williams was a dagger.

13.) Packer brought up the moving sreens issue with about 2:30 left in the game. (I started whining much earlier than that to my bud lol). Anyway, forget that, just wanted to point out again that I was not influenced by Packer. I'm not even going to argue those now; I'll give BOOG the benefit of the doubt.

14.)1:10-Head misses 3 at 72-70 to take lead. WIDE OPEN.

15.) 55 secs-Williams misses a wide open 3.

16.) 33 secs-Felton intercept's Head's pass and is fouled with 25 secs. Hits 1-2 FTs.

17.) 17 secs-Head misses another open look at the 3.

18.) 9.9-Felton fouled hits 2-2 FTs.

19.) 5 secs-Head misses the last desparation heave 3.

You want to know why Illinois lost? Look at points 14-19. That was it folks. The refs did a decent job. Illinois had no one to blame but themselves. Look at the tape. It's clear as day. There was no sixth man for EITHER side. It came down to making shots and Illinois didn't in the end. Illinois never tried to get established inside, not even before there was ANY foul trouble.

[BroChaos Veteran]

are we at least willing to admit that the refs played a bigger role than they should have?

i mean c'mon, one turnover for each team in the second half, it was almost perfect execution for both teams.

[jerzdawg]

Overall I just think this was one of the best Tournaments i've seen... just plenty of last minute win games that kept everyone on their toes. Last night I didnt really care who won, both teams I thought deserved to be there.... I prob would have liked to see Illonois pull off the win.. but.. whatever...

[Gowcra]

Indeed.!!! :huh:

[IndianPimp99]

You want to know why Illinois lost? Look at points 14-19. That was it folks. The refs did a decent job. Illinois had no one to blame but themselves. Look at the tape. It's clear as day. There was no sixth man for EITHER side. It came down to making shots and Illinois didn't in the end. Illinois never tried to get established inside, not even before there was ANY foul trouble.

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While I hesitate to use the old referee, ump, etc "excuse" the disparity was a little more evident in this game.

While the slow-motion replays may have confired no foul on the play where Powell was hacked like a million times, at normal game speed the refs will call that a foul on somebody 98% of the time.

At the other end, May had atleast two non-calls of a charge. Don't know when exactly, but I remember one in the first half against Powell. I know the definition of a charge, and blocking and Powell clearly had position. May just lowered his shoulder and pushed off.

I think the reason the Illini (Head in particular) missed those shots waaay late in the game was simply because they were too tired from overcoming that deficit from the first half.

As for the moving-screens...um, Billy Packer should stick to just calling ACC games because they weren't blatant, they haven't been called all year long, and they weren't as frequent as he made them seem. I love Packers call in the 'Nova game where he goes "1.......2..3. Yep he took three" when clearly it was two. A trip to the optometrist may be in order.

Bottom line, Illinois did rely a little too much on the three, McCants dissapeared in the 2nd half and I think one of the reasons the Illini didn't take it in is because on the few occasions that they did, May wasn't being called the same as Augustine was on the touch fouls or the contact.

The refs, one way or another, played too big a part in determining the overall progression of the game.

[danniboi]

If a player just runs or backs up into you, how the hell can that be called an defensive foul. What is the defensive supposed to do, move out of the way and let him dunk? I don't think blaming refs is the way to go but you cant sit there and say that the refs weren't wrong in how they let the game play.

[bigbluepride35]

Hey IndianPimp, do you change avatar and sig sets by seasonal sport? lol Whats it going to be during football season, Bears?

[mattmatik]

Bottom line, Illinois did rely a little too much on the three, McCants dissapeared in the 2nd half and I think one of the reasons the Illini didn't take it in is because on the few occasions that they did, May wasn't being called the same as Augustine was on the touch fouls or the contact.

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Has anyone mentioned the fact that Raymond Felton had 4 fouls on him with AT LEAST 4 minutes to play, yet Derron Williams never attacked the basket, never tried to draw a charge...never did anything to expose the situation? Nope. When Felton came back in to the game with about 8 minutes left, he switched off onto Dee Brown...whom is obviously quicker than Felton. He never drove the ball, he stood outside the 3 point line all night.

Foul out Felton and Illinois wins. They didn't do it. Felton also played alot more intelligent basketball than Augustine when the 4th foul came around. Refs will rarely give the benefit of the doubt to players who neve move their feet and just reach all the time. High school, college, NBA...it's the same way.

Everybody thinks that against a zone, especially a 2-3, that you are supposed to shoot over it. That is wrong, you are supposed to penetrate and kick, penetrate and kick...every time down. Attack the gaps. Carolina stayed in that zone pretty much all game, and the only time Illinois tried to penetrate and kick, Felton intercepted the pass from Williams to Head. And this was after Felton had 4 fouls ;)

[IndianPimp99]

Hey IndianPimp, do you change avatar and sig sets by seasonal sport? lol Whats it going to be during football season, Bears?

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Oh of course, I've got a Bulls one ready as well just as soon as the playoffs start you should start seeing that one around.

[L3thal Veteran]

Oh of course, I've got a Bulls one ready as well just as soon as the playoffs start you should start seeing that one around.

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Those baby Bulls :p

[bigbluepride35]

Sorry for resurrecting an old thread but I didn't think this was worth a completely new one. Looks like Felton, May, and Williams are set to announce their decisions. The fact that they're holding the conference at the same time for all three of them leads me to believe they possibly all made the same decision. Of course, this is pure speculation on my part but I'm hoping, if May was being honest shortly after they won the championship, that this gives hope that they're staying. Of course, maybe they're all announcing they're leaving, or they haven't even all made the same decision. I know I'll be glued to ESPN.com tomorow around 1:30.

Story

[bigbluepride35]

Noooooooooooo!!! Well it's official. May, Felton, and Williams all declared for the draft today. That means the team's top 7 scorers and 7 out of 8 leaders in minutes are all gone. Talk about rebuilding year. Well we'll be back soon enough. Waiting for an article to be posted online. Heard it on WFAN 660 AM New York.

[Steffan]

here's an article: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2043604

:argh: :angry:

[BroChaos Veteran]

woohoo!

now we get to make fun of UNC next year :)

[Steffan]

woohoo!

now we get to make fun of UNC next year :)

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that's enough out of you :crazy: :pc:

[mattmatik]

Wow, this could be one of the biggest regressions in history. National champs one year to maybe sub-.500. UNC does have some very, VERY good recruits coming in and Rayshaun Terry will probably be a solid point guard, but man, in a league where defense is a must...it looks bleek.

I guess we'll see Duke back at the #1 seed again :angry: