Sheff Scuffles with Boston Fan

[xxdesmus]

^^ i couldn't say it any better :yes:

[Hurmoth]

By sweeping for the ball?  Like I said before, if the fan wanted to hit Gary, he did just as poor of a job as he did sweeping for the ball.  You can't attack one without attacking the other, as both are 'hardly attempts'.  Sheffield was the only one that made any visible contact.  The fan 'swipe' cannot be confirmed as an attack on the player at all.

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Boston officials and Major Leauge Baseball disagree with you, otherwise Gary would have been punished. :rolleyes:

[bigbluepride35]

BOOG if you argue the swipe not being an attack thing you could also argue Sheffield's shove wasn't either, but rather self-defense. It was an instinct, not calculated, and once he DID think about it, he threw the ball in and did the whirl-a-round without furhter physical contact. And on super slo-mo replays the fan largely fell back trying to avoid the shove, I thought Sheff barely got him. On a lighter note, I'm glad the moron who threw the beer on Sheff fell back on his ass without ANYONE touching him--what a moron. Trying to inflame an already tense situation, good job idiot. Anyway, to why I was actually making this post to begin with. . .

This is from a column by Bill Simmons on ESPN's page 2. The guy's a DIEHARD Sox fan and this is what HE had to say on the incident:

Imagine if I gave you this scenario on Thursday morning ...

Gary Sheffield runs over to the RF corner at Fenway to scoop up a potential double along the wall. A probably drunken Boston fan in the first row pretends to go for the ball, reaches over and swipes Sheffield right in the mouth. Sheffield reacts by angrily giving the guy a two-handed shove, throwing the ball back to the infield, then turning around and heading toward the guy in the first row.

What do you think happens next?

A. Sheffield stops himself, shouts a few things at the guy, then security intervenes before anything else happens.

B. Sheffield drops the guy with one punch.

C. Sheffield punches the guy, enters the stands and clears out everyone in Section One like Swayze demolishing the Double Deuce in "Road House."

Now ...

I would have bet my baseball card collection on "B" or "C." You couldn't ask for a crazier guy to be involved in this particular situation than Gary Sheffield ? this is the same guy who once punched out a pitcher on his own team who complained about his defense. It was like the setup for the Ron Artest Melee all over again. But that's the thing ? because the Artest thing happened six months ago, Sheffield had that in the back of his mind ... so he held off. And now we have to deal with a week of over-the-top coverage from reporters and columnists about the ramifications of player-fan violence at games, when the reality is that nothing really happened. I feel cheated ? if we have to endure this crap, at least Sheffield could have popped the guy and given us a Hall of Fame TV Night worthy of the Artest Melee.

When I was watching the game live, there was no doubt in my mind that the guy did it intentionally. Now people have been arguing about this in message boards and radio stations, debating whether the guy did it maliciously, and whether Sheffield has the right to react. I say "yes" and "yes." Normally, I hate arguing about those Arguments Du' Jour that get blown out of proportion only so people in the sports media who make a living overreacting to stuff like this have something to yelp about for two-three days. But in this case, I have something to say. I'm pro-Sheffield on this one, despite the fact that he plays for the Yankees. Here's my case:

1. Anyone who argues that "the Probably Drunk Guy was reaching for the ball and 'accidentally' swiped Sheffield" or "we shouldn't judge him because we don't know his intentions" also believes that the Pistons fan who threw the beer on Ron Artest was "just trying to throw his brew out." Come on. If you accidentally swiped a player reaching for a ball, wouldn't your natural reaction be to jump backwards or make some sort of "Whoops!" face? What Boston fan would be dumb enough to interfere with a potential two-RBI triple that was in play? And by the way, had he scooped the ball up, that whole section would have killed him because Ortiz (the eighth run) would have had to go back to third base..

Nope, Probably Drunk Guy was much more calculating ? he made it seem like a half-hearted swipe, didn't come within four feet of the ball, and if anything, he probably meant to get more of Sheffield's face than he did (from ESPN's replay of the camera located closer to home plate, you could see that he had no chance at the ball and clearly saw Sheffield coming). And when Sheffield came after him, there wasn't even 1/100th of a look on the guy's face like he felt any semblance of remorse. If anything, he was probably dying for Sheffield to come at him so he could take a punch and immediately call "Attorney Jim Sokolove" from those late-night commercials.

2. More importantly, anyone who has ever lived in Boston and attended baseball games, tailgated for Pats games, imbibed at bars, gone to local concerts and anything of that ilk has come across thousands and thousands of guys like the Probably Drunk Guy, your classic Boston "tough guy" with a little attitude to him. Believe me, I love these guys ? it's one of the random things I miss most about the city. These are the guys who scream "A-Rod, you suck!" during a moment of silence for Dick Radatz or taunt you good-naturedly as you're going for the eight-ball in a game of pool at the Irish Embassy. These are also the guys who would relish the chance to swipe Yankee players in the mouth during a Red Sox game and make it seem like it was an accident.

3. For anyone who says that Sheffield shouldn't have reacted, have you ever sat in right field at Fenway during a Yankee game? It's like a war zone out there ? the fans spend nine straight innings screaming insults and obscenities at whoever is playing RF for the Yanks. There's definitely an electricity in the air. It's definitely not a place you would feel 100-percent safe as an opposing player; and I guarantee you that Sheffield had these things in the back of his mind as he ran over to the corner to scoop up that baseball. When something did happen, he was reacting in a "Dammit, I KNEW something would happen!" way, not an "I can't believe someone just popped me in the mouth!" way.

I love when people get on their high horse and say, "You can't react like Sheffield did; you just can't." Really? You're putting yourself in the shoes of a guy who's just been taunted for eight innings, doesn't feel safe to begin with and just got popped in the mouth (and had a beer thrown on him) during a play? We saw a similar thing happen to Jermaine O'Neal after the Artest Melee, when he decked the portly fan who came running on the court to challenge Artest ? everyone judged O'Neal without putting themselves in his shoes, or wondering what it was like to be a Pacer that night when, for about five minutes there, it looked like they might have to fight their way out of the Palace to stay alive. The fact that O'Neal ? indisputably one of the nicest guys in the NBA, as well as one of the most thoughtful and articulate ? reacted that way tells you how frightening it was out there. And I'm sure Sheffield was frightened as well. He shouldn't be suspended, he shouldn't be fined, and that's that.

A few more notes while we're here:

? One goofy idea to stop fans from provoking players for good: On the tickets for every game, print something like, "During the game, if you reach onto the playing field and strike one of the players ? intentionally or unintentionally ? or if you throw any object at them, the players reserve the right to pummel the living crap out of you, with absolutely no legal ramifications."

? The security guard who jumped into the stands as Sheffield was yelling at Probably Drunk Guy has to win some sort of Security Guard of the Year Award. Fantastic job by him. Five seconds later and Sheffield is turning Section One into the Double Deuce. Actually, terrible job by that security guard ? why couldn't he have tripped?

? My personal highlight from last night: Calling my dad right after the Sheffield thing happened and having this exchange:

--Dad (sounding groggy): "Hello?"

--Me: "Did you just see that? I can't believe Sheffield actually showed restraint!"

--Dad (two-second pause, obviously just woke up): "Is it still 5-5?" Source

Now I've already made my own case as to why I think it was the fan's fault. And I personally despise the Yankees. And while I realize that no matter what any of us say, each person is going to have their own opinion on the matter and probably won't change it, no matter how many different video replays you watch you can still argue ten different scenarios. The more important matter, IMO, is not who's fault it was but that it was able to happen to begin with. Again, this situation itself may be a bit blown out of proportion since nothing happened but it is a sign of a much BIGGER problem in sports. It's been mentioned in this thread but people keep reverting back to the "Who started it" point instead of trying to focus on how to keep it from happening in the future. Now granted, we're not the people who will make that decision and even if someone came up with a solution I doubt the powers that be would care. Going back and forth on who started this whole thing is senseless since people WON'T change their minds this far removed from it.

Edited April 22, 2005 by bigbluepride35

[DreAming in DigITal]

As opposed to 'the fan might have interfered with the player? Visible contact vs alleged contact. If i were the fan, I would press battery charges against Sheffield.

If you were the fan you would also lose the case (Y)

Boston officials and Major Leauge Baseball disagree with you, otherwise Gary would have been punished.

Exactly

The fan 'swipe' cannot be confirmed as an attack on the player at all.

If you really think the dude was "going for the ball", I've got a niiiiiice piece of land for sale in the everglades that I'm sure you'd love to buy. He was obviously messing with Sheffield at the least. If I were Sheff I would have grabbed the drunkard from the stands and onto the field, then beat him in front of his wife and children and the city of Boston. :rofl:

[DreAming in DigITal]

And on super slo-mo replays the fan largely fell back trying to avoid the shove

Kinda makes you think he was expecting some retaliation for something? hmmm...

[....]

If you were the fan you would also lose the case (Y)

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Actually, no. Any unwanted contact can be charged with battery. you poke someone in the chest, and taht person can press charges. Look it up. ;)

If you really think the dude was "going for the ball", I've got a niiiiiice piece of land for sale in the everglades that I'm sure you'd love to buy. He was obviously messing with Sheffield at the least. If I were Sheff I would have grabbed the drunkard from the stands and onto the field, then beat him in front of his wife and children and the city of Boston.  :rofl:

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And if you think he was trying to successfully attack Sheffield, then I'll sell the land back to you for a profit.

[DreAming in DigITal]

Actually, no. Any unwanted contact can be charged with battery. you poke someone in the chest, and taht person can press charges. Look it up.

You can also sue someone for looking at you wrong...doesn't mean your gonna win. ;)

And if you think he was trying to successfully attack Sheffield, then I'll sell the land back to you for a profit.

Reread my post. I didn't say he was trying to "attack" Sheff...I said that he wasn't going for the ball...maybe trying to mess with him maybe trying to hit him. He's the only one who knows...(well if he remembered what happened).

[Ayepecks]

Boston officials and Major Leauge Baseball disagree with you, otherwise Gary would have been punished. :rolleyes:

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Major League Baseball disagrees with a lot of things -- doesn't mean it's right. Boston officials were trying to get the situation handled quickly and easily. Do you honestly think they want the issue to drag on and bring a bad name to the city, regardless of what happened?

Kinda makes you think he was expecting some retaliation for something? hmmm...

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Not really. Makes me think the guy's not a complete idiot by having reflexes and trying to avoid a fight -- I think anyone would have done the same.

[Soham]

boston sucks

[DreAming in DigITal]

Not really. Makes me think the guy's not a complete idiot by having reflexes and trying to avoid a fight -- I think anyone would have done the same.

I'm a Yankee fan so I still think he's a complete idiot :D

[Hurmoth]

boston sucks

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I am a huge Yankee fan, but I cannot say Boston sucks. They did something last year that no other team in the history of recorded sports has ever done and I have to give them credit for doing that.