Mysterious Linux

[alsheron]

:rolleyes:

[raid517]

Do you have something to add alsheron? Unless of course you have some other pointless smilies to add? Because otherwise I think this topic should pretty much be considered over with.

GJ

[alsheron]

  raid517 said:

Do you have something to add alsheron? Unless of course you have some other pointless smilies to add? Because otherwise I think this topic should pretty much be considered over with.

GJ

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:D

You have a way with words 517, a way with words......

I'm going back to XP.... Linux was a nice Windows clone while it lasted..... ;)

Now..... What happened to that group hug?..... :ninja:

Edited May 27, 2005 by alsheron

[markwolfe Veteran]

Linux is hardly a "Windows clone". It is quite far from it, development and philosopy-wise. If that was your honest impression with Linux, then maybe you should give it another try (sometime when you get curious again, not necessarily now). Linux can be as little or as much as you want, and can give you a very spare or feature-rich environment.

As for the group hug.... I didn't see any takers the first time. :cry: :p

[thechitowncubs]

linux works good for me :)

[raid517]

  alsheron said:

:D

You have a way with words 517, a way with words......

I'm going back to XP.... Linux was a nice Windows clone while it lasted.....  ;)

Now..... What happened to that group hug?..... :ninja:

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You'll be back. :) Curiosity is a terrible thing.

I possibly shouldn't say it as it will probably offend someone (although as you probably guess that isn't something I often spend all that much time worrying about) but what drove my original interest in Linux was that I wasn't going to have a bunch of geeks making me feel that possibly I was too 'dumb' to get my head around their OS. I knew I wasn't and I was determined to prove this. I often used to think that Linux probably wasn't so good (although that wasn't the phrase I had in my mind for much of that time) but I was determined that before I made up my mind finally, I would learn it inside out so that if I did decide it was (excuse the French) sh*t and if I did decide to put it down and never use it again, no one in their right mind could accuse me of doing it because I was in any way too stoopid to understand it.

Anyway the bottom line is after a long time and a lot of effort the penny dropped and I finally understood the *point* of what linux was about. I guess you could say I eventually just got hooked.

And consider this. If Linux is just a Windows clone, how come you have found it so hard to understand it? Superficially there are parts of it that may resemble Windows (or at least there are parts of KDE that may resemble Windows) - but underneath it is as different from Windows as chalk is from cheese. Also if you find the 'Windows like' facade of KDE to be unappealing, there are a great many other Window managers to choose from - some of which might seem so alien to you that they would have little or no resemblence to Windows (or anything within your common experience) at all.

The fact that KDE looks somewhat similar to Windows is I think purely an attempt not to terrify new users at first glance - and make them run away screaming for the comfort and security of their MS Windows operating systems. It is in other words an attempt to at least make the experience seem a little familiar.

Perhaps this is wasted - but a lot of people who do try Linux do keep comming back. Who knows, maybe one day you will become hooked too.

GJ

[mr_demilord]

If you wan't to learn linux format your drive and install only linux and start reading about linux and use google http://www.google.com/linux to find stuf bout linux. The 1st month will be horible and much angry days :angry: becos things don't work like you had expected , but when everything is going smooth, it is damn rock solid. I am really happy that I didn't give up.

All my hardware works including printer scanner network ftp server digital photo camera everything even my multimedia keyboard with fancy buttons are working and also my 6 button mouse all the buttons work!

I play games like Quake 3 Arena, Unreal Tournament 2k3 2k4 without a problem.

Just don't give up and stop thinking and comparing that it doesn't work like windows that is the biggest mistake people make. and once you find out the commands you will notice that linux is more powerful in text mode then windows xp in graphical mode.

[+unabatedshagie Subscriber¹]

  mr_demilord said:

If you wan't to learn linux format your drive and install only linux and start reading about linux and use google http://www.google.com/linux to find stuf bout linux. The 1st month will be horible and much angry days  :angry:  becos things don't work like you had expected , but when everything is going smooth, it is damn rock solid. I am really happy that I didn't give up.

All my hardware works including printer scanner network ftp server digital photo camera everything even my multimedia keyboard with fancy buttons are working and also my 6 button mouse all the buttons work!

I play games like Quake 3 Arena, Unreal Tournament 2k3 2k4 without a problem.

Just don't give up and stop thinking and comparing that it doesn't work like windows that is the biggest mistake people make. and once you find out the commands you will notice that linux is more powerful in text mode then windows xp in graphical mode.

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While it's a good idea to do this it wouldn't have helped much in this case because he couldn't get his adsl modem installed. I seriously doubt you would have been able to get the modem installed on your first time using linux without using the internet for help.

[raid517]

He did get the internet working, if you read all his posts - so no reason to give up there.

People do give in and blame Linux because all of their hardware doesn't always work instantly (although an awful lot of it does). They compare it to Windows and say things like, well in Windows xzy modem/network card/sound card or whatever just worked. But the truth is it didn't. In reality they often have to go to a manufacturer's web site, download the drivers, install them and reboot in order for them to work, or install them from a CD provided by the manufacturer. Only in Linux do people expect that all of their hardware no matter how obscure, should work instantly and should have all of the drivers ever for all of the hardware in the world, already supplied - and then they blame it if maybe, occasionally it doesn't. (Or often they blame it because the manufacturer does supply drivers - but they simply don't know how to install them). The people you should blame for this if there is really no drivers are your manufacturers. Write an angry email to them asking why they do not supply drivers for what is certainly an ever increasingly popular OS.

Basically the way I look at it, it's a kind of catch 22. Either having first tried Linux, you learn it as much as you can - or you give in an admit that you are just too dumb to understand it. For me at least the latter option was simply not acceptable.

GJ

[alsheron]

I was only kidding about going back to WinXP. I have it all dual-booted for now, and the KDE will ease me into things for the time being.

This is actually perhaps the fourth time i've tried a linux distro and this time i have to say i've made more progress than ever before...older and wiser this time.....

I remember the days (in a university long, long ago) when I'd sit down to a workstation which had Red Hat installed in order to learn how to program in Java. I remembered thinking at the time that almost everything about Linux seemed more refined, more intricate, and generally more advanced compared to the then Windows ME i was using at home. Of course, at the same time it all seemed (and seems) extremely technically involved but as an OS, Linux (at least SUSE that i'm using now) is way ahead of its time in terms of the technology and development thats clearly gone into it if you count Windows XP as the "OS of the times".

I've been a power user of Windows from 3.11 to the present day....Thats a LONG time using windows, and I have to say, that in principal there have only been incremental changes to the way you actually *use* it. It was with great sadness that I waved goodbye to DOS in XP, and it was this text based command environment that I literally grew up on. Now all that's done away with, and I know XP almost too much, I needed a fresh challenge.

I have to say though, raid517, that I never once picked up any manual or book when learning about and using Dos or Windows. My method of learning has always been in the most part "hands on". I read magazines, i read websites etc, but what i read was always geared towards actual problems i was facing. Sure, i'd then often have to go back an read about and learn something that was an underlying issue for the problem i was faced with, and with understanding cam curiosity, but my learning is more adventurous, more freeform and more informal that sitting down with a book or reading through an entire tutorial when its not clearly immediately relevant to what i'm trying to acheive. Why do I learn like this? Because in this case, and in the case of me learning Windows, there was no pressure on me to learn it. There was no urgency. There were no teachers/professors/supervisors breathing down my neck asking for arbritrary tasks of "learning" to have been ahceived. I learned because i was interested and curious about how it all worked and what i could do with this incredible tehcnology...... Linux looks set to revive all that....... and i relish the prospect........ :)

[raid517]

Oh well. Each to their own I guess. But what I have told you is valid. Even if you do want to do it on a problem by problem basis, you will still find that almost without question the information you need to resolve your problem already exists - and the onus is entirely on you to refine your searching skills to find this information. There is one golden rule in Linux (and in Unix at large) which is RTFM. RTFM stands for 'read the f***ng manual'. It may not be very polite, but it is a rule that is at the top of any Linux rule book - and indeed you should probably print it on the front of your own Linux/Unix rule book now, or perhaps pin it as a sticky note on your PC. It is the hardest rule to learn - and often it seems to be the easiest rule to forget. RTFM also as it happens encompases other rules (though these are often not quite so explicitly stated), such as RTFFAQ's and RTFFP (I think you should be able to work out the first of these, where as the second contains a reference to forum posts) and also there is another unstated rule which is LTSGFFS (which basically implores one to "learn to search Google for 'expletive's deleted' sake"). Only when you have mastered these skills/rules, is it likely that you will get a very warm reception when if all else fails you do finally reach for the posting button on any given forum.

What you must bare in mind is that although you may imagine that you are the first person who has ever experienced a particular issue or other, invariably you are not - and the answer to your problem in actual fact already exists and has already been supplied (perhaps even several times over) and therefore the responsibility is on you exclusively to find out what this answer is.

There is certainly no pressure to learn - but then I didn't mind learning in a more structured/formal way. This is the way I was taught to learn things at University - so it seemed natural/easy for me to apply this method of learning to Linux - just as I would apply it to any other subject I might encounter.

I hope that despite a possibly rough start, your experience does turn out to be positive.

Best regards,

GJ

Edited May 28, 2005 by raid517

[Barney T. Administrators]

Tisk-tisk........ probably not a great idea to joke about "going back to Windows" after so many people have given you their time and advice to get you up and running with Linux... It is sure to upset some.

It is your choice to go back, if you wish, but not to taunt people here. :no:

Barney

[alsheron]

  barneyt said:

Tisk-tisk........ probably not a great idea to joke about "going back to Windows" after so many people have given you their time and advice to get you up and running with Linux... It is sure to upset some.

It is your choice to go back, if you wish, but not to taunt people here.  :no:

Barney

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I wasn't taunting......... Like i said..... I'm now dual-booting, and loving it..... :D

I appreciate very much everyone's replies here..... :)

[markwolfe Veteran]

  barneyt said:

Tisk-tisk........ probably not a great idea to joke about "going back to Windows" after so many people have given you their time and advice to get you up and running with Linux... It is sure to upset some.

585981446[/snapback]

It will only bother those who take what OS other people run far too seriously. :whistle:

As for me, I will help others try Linux, but it is no skin off my nose if they decide it is not for them (some people will have their own preferences in apps and Operating Systems). The way I see it, at least they gave it a try, and it will be in the back of their mind as a potential to try again in the future when either Linux is ready for them, or they are ready for Linux.

[Barney T. Administrators]

Well said, Mark.......... as usual.

Barney