Ubuntu to debian

[glasscleaner]

i have some problem with ubuntu, many people have the same but no help anywhere. (gnome freeze long time at startup, and after 3-4 min, it ask me to delete applet because it dont work (and of course it work) i hate waiting so long each boot (or login).

btw my question is, this is a good move if i give a try to debian? i really love the apt-get system who it download all lib the program want automatically. or there is any other thing of that with a large programme choice?

thanks

[CaKeY]

http://www.mepis.org

http://www.zenlinux.org/drupal/

http://www.ludos.org/portal/

[glasscleaner]

http://www.mepis.org

http://www.zenlinux.org/drupal/

http://www.ludos.org/portal/

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there are debian based too?

[CaKeY]

yes.

[glasscleaner]

yes.

586173413[/snapback]

tx

[Prosidius]

Knoppix has a hard drive install also.

[Crimson Behelit]

Any of the distros CaKeY linked to will do you just fine.

Of course I'm going to suggest trying a non-debian distro since you have the opportunity to.

Whatever choice you make good luck :yes:

[glasscleaner]

yeah, i dont only love debian based or wathever.

there ONLY one thing. i dont want to F with all lib. i dont want to install 7-8 lib pack to run a program. i want this automaticaly :)

[sd_ba2271]

yeah, i dont only love debian based or wathever.

there ONLY one thing. i dont want to F with all lib. i dont want to install 7-8 lib pack to run a program. i want this automaticaly :)

586173635[/snapback]

Why not also try out SuSE? SuSE isn't Debian/apt based, but is RPM based, and has a huge amount of available apps. Are you GNOME or KDE kinda guy? I personally favor GNOME for it's polished professional look, not that KDE doesn't have that. I used GNOME for much longer and am comfortable with it.

[NeoXY]

ok...I just recently moved to Ubuntu...*more like 24 hours*...but how do you install applications?!?...:/

I got Firefox 1.04 lying around and I can't figure out how to install it...:p

[Prosidius]

Click System --> Administration -->Synaptic package Manager

or

Open a terminal and type apt-get install <package name>

Substitue <package name> for the package name like xmms or mplayer.

I have a full apt-get tut in the tut forum.

[glasscleaner]

ok...I just recently moved to Ubuntu...*more like 24 hours*...but how do you install applications?!?...:/

I got Firefox 1.04 lying around and I can't figure out how to install it...:p

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<< Click System --> Administration -->Synaptic package Manage >>

yeap, and use the search button, and search for what you want, change search type for Name and Description and put what you want (exemple: Video editor, music player etc...) you can find a lot of good stuff.

and add backport to your /etc/apt-get/source.list for more and more software and game (free of course :) )

[glasscleaner]

Why not also try out SuSE? SuSE isn't Debian/apt based, but is RPM based, and has a huge amount of available apps. Are you GNOME or KDE kinda guy? I personally favor GNOME for it's polished professional look, not that KDE doesn't have that. I used GNOME for much longer and am comfortable with it.

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ok, if i install a program, exemple Gaim. the rpms automaticaly install all lib Gaim need? that all i want

[Crimson Behelit]

ok, if i install a program, exemple Gaim. the rpms automaticaly install all lib Gaim need? that all i want

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Ubuntu does do that... but yes, I'm sure Suse does that too.

[raid517]

Sticking to the subject of Debian.... If you want an uber cool Debian install that is also 100% Debian binary compatable, you could do a lot, lot worse than give Kanotix a try.

The web site might not be much to write home about but the distro is really quite stunningly good. I have tried pretty much every Debian (and other) based distro going - and the problem with many debian based distros is that they instoduce so many customisations and so much of their own stuff that they usually end up breaking compatability with the official debian (and apt-get) source tree. Distributions that are guilty of this, include Mepis, Ubuntu, Xandros and Linspire (to name a few).

Indeed so much do they break compatability with official debian sources that it is often said that these distributions can not even really be considered to really be Debian any more.

This is why peeps often run into so much trouble with 'debian like' distributions, when they try to mix sources from the official Debian distribution, with their own heavily modified distribution specific sources. The bottom line is that these other distros are in many ways simply not compatable.

Kanotix overcomes this very simply by actively maintaining 100% Debian binary compatability - while being free, easy to install, with great hardware support and an extensive software collection - while still managing to look pretty cool at the same time too.

I have been using it for over a year now - and so far it has been trouble free.

GJ

Edited July 7, 2005 by raid517

[NeoXY]

<< Click System --> Administration -->Synaptic package Manage >>

yeap, and use the search button, and search for what you want, change search type for Name and Description and put what you want (exemple: Video editor, music player etc...) you can find a lot of good stuff.

and add backport to your /etc/apt-get/source.list for more and more software and game (free of course :) )

586173963[/snapback]

yes...just discovered what I can do with Synaptic...very cool..:D and already did add a backport to my /etc/apt-get/.. :happy: ...really enjoying Ubuntu ATM...very stable indeed

[raid517]

Like I said above, be careful what sources you add to your /etc/apt/sources.list file. Ubuntu IS NOT Debian - indeed many have agued that it is the furthest removed from Debian of all of the Debian type distributions. The only real sources you can add are official Ubuntu sources - or unoffcial sources that specifically say they were built for Ubuntu. Anything else is in time pretty much guranteed to crash and burn your system.

GJ

[glasscleaner]

Sticking to the subject of Debian.... If you want an uber cool Debian install that is also 100% Debian binary compatable, you could do a lot, lot worse than give Kanotix a try.

they say kanotix is based on knoppix. so, Debian --> knoppix --> kanotix.

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that not too much based on X from Y etc.. ? :)

[Mike Douglas]

Like I said above, be careful what sources you add to your /etc/apt/sources.list file. Ubuntu IS NOT Debian - indeed many have agued that it is the furthest removed from Debian of all of the Debian type distributions.

Thats a lot of FUD; Linspire, Xandros, to name a few, are far more removed from Debian. Now that some new packages are actually going into Sid, the differences will become minimal.

The only real sources you can add are official Ubuntu sources - or unoffcial sources that specifically say they were built for Ubuntu. Anything else is in time pretty much guranteed to crash and burn your system.

Wrong, I have lots of debian-based repositories in my sources.list, never had a single problem.

[raid517]

You will dude. Just give it time. I have been there a long time before you - and several times over to boot. I've installed Debian sources in Ubuntu, Ubuntu souces in Debian, Xandros sources In Linspire, Linspire sources in Xandros and any number of different combinations - and the end result has always been the same. Everything swings along nicely for the first month or two - but eventually you hit a brick wall that you can't get over. The official word from any hard core debian user or developer in any case is that you should never mix sources from different distributions. If you don't believe in Debian binary incompatability - well I guess that is up to you. But I assure you that there very much is such a thing.

I'm sorry if that seems like news to you, but there you are.

And I'm sure you can't be one of only the two or three Ubuntu users who haven't heard about the big fuss over Ubuntu, where many of the official debian developers pretty much openly said that Ubuntu was not Debian.

If Ubuntu is Debian, then why exactly do they need to maintain their own Ubuntu specific repository? Why not use the Debian repositories? Could it be, as has been made clear to me and others time and again, that this is because the Debian source tree and the Ubuntu source tree are not compatable?

But hey, it's no big deal. If Ubuntu isn't Debian then that's fine. If they want to use their own repositories and move away from Debian even more in the future - then that is no big deal either. It's all Linux, so it's all good.

I just don't think that until the source tree is in sync and they can use official Debian repositories that it is wise to confuse the two.

GJ

BTW. please don't turn this into a flamewar. If you don't like what I have said, then take your frustrations out on the Debian developers (since this is pretty much their view too) or on Google - where you will be able to read much more information on this debate - and where you can also read thousands of similar statements from other Debian users saying more or less exactly the same thing. Just don't blame me for for the decisions the Ubuntu developers may or may not make.

Edited July 7, 2005 by raid517

[Mike Douglas]

You will dude. Just give it time.

I actually started using Ubuntu when its first pre-release was announced on Slashdot.

If you don't believe in Debian binary incompatability - well I guess that is up to you. But I assure you that there very much is such a thing.

I have, but its not a large deal as you mentioned in your previous mentioned in your post, and its extremely hard to break a system because of it.

And I'm sure you can't be one of only the two or three Ubuntu users who haven't heard about the big fuss over Ubuntu, where many of the official debian developers pretty much openly said that Ubuntu was not Debian.

I've heard of it, and the packages Ian Murdock was talking about (NetworkManager) was broken in Ubuntu too, at the time.

If Ubuntu is Debian, then why exactly do they need to maintain their own Ubuntu specific repository? Why not use the Debian repositories?

Debian GNU/Linux 3.0 (a.k.a. woody) was released on 19th of July, 2002.

Debian GNU/Linux 3.1 (a.k.a. sarge) was released on 6th of June, 2005.

BTW. please don't turn this into a flamewar.

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I just didn't want anyone reading this thread to be misinformed.

[raid517]

It isn't compatable with ANY of the official source trees. Not just the ancient Woody souce tree. That includes Sarge (and Sid as well). And you can't be that long term a Debian user to know it all as you seem to think you do. After all, Ubuntu is still a pretty new kid on the block.

Like I said, wait. No better than that - add even more sources from Debian unstable to your sources.list file so you can speed the process up. Sooner or later something WILL break.

And you surely can't be that much of a hardcore user if you have never heard anyone telling you before not to mix sources. I participate regularly on the official Debian mailing lists and this is the single biggest problem that the vast majority of new users come to the lists to ask for help with. Usually it goes along the lines of 'Help, I've broken my system by mixing my install with unofficial sources'. Increasingly often (though by no means exclusively) this happens when people try to mix their official Debian unstable install with sources from Ubuntu. The only way I can see this not happening is if you opt not to do full regular dist-upgrades - which like the majority of Debian users I personally do choose to do. If you don't update regularly and have official Ubuntu and official Debian Sid sources in your sources.list file, then it is possible you could go for long periods of time without running into problems. Otherwise I would suggest what you are implying is impossible.

And it wasn't just a debate over one single broken package in Ubuntu. Many people in the Debian world believe that it is the the entire Ubuntu pilosophy that is broken. They behave like a seperatist movement, taking time, attention and developers away from the official Debian effort - while making efforts too to even go as far as to break Debian compatability - while making very little effort to make any contribution back to the community which inspired its original conception.

It certainly isn't as trivial an issue as you make it out to be either.

GJ

Edited July 7, 2005 by raid517

[raid517]

that not too much based on X from Y etc.. ? :)

586174167[/snapback]

Kanotix is based on Debian - but with significant changes to ensure 100% guranteed official Debian Sid compatability.

Even Knoppix in it's raw state is not considered to be 100% Debian compatable. It also has quite a few more cool features than Knoppix.

GJ

Edited July 7, 2005 by raid517

[Prosidius]

apt-get was really the beginning of the package manager era which is still going on. Once Debian showed off it's sexy package management everyone was starting to make similar ones like yum.

[Mike Douglas]

It isn't compatable with ANY of the official source trees. Not just the ancient Woody souce tree. That includes Sarge (and Sid as well). And you can't be that long term a Debian user to know it all as you seem to think you do. After all, Ubuntu is still a pretty new kid on the block.

The difference between UserLinux and Ubuntu was that Ubuntu decided to introduce these minor changes. Look how either has ended up.

Like I said, wait. No better than that - add even more sources from Debian unstable to your sources.list file so you can speed the process up. Sooner or later something WILL break.

Adding unofficial sources to debian might break that too. Whats your point?

And you surely can't be that much of a hardcore user if you have never heard anyone telling you before not to mix sources.

I've heard it, and I gave the exact same arguement that I gave here. For 99% of the packages, Ubuntu is exactly the same as Debian.

I participate regularly on the official Debian mailing lists and this is the single biggest problem that the vast majority of new users come to the lists to ask for help with. Usually it goes along the lines of 'Help, I've broken my system by mixing my install with unofficial sources'.

Just as I said earlier, Debian is always compatible with Debian.

Increasingly often (though by no means exclusively) this happens when people try to mix their official Debian unstable install with sources from Ubuntu.

Adding Ubuntu's sources to a Debian Unstable install would fully upgrade that system to Ubuntu. If you mean they grab the Ubuntu's universe repository with a Debian install, thats just foolhardy and would be like adding a Sid repository to a Woody install.

The only way I can see this not happening is if you opt not to do full regular dist-upgrades - which like the majority of Debian users I personally do choose to do. If you don't update regularly and have official Ubuntu and official Debian Sid sources in your sources.list file, then it is possible you could go for long periods of time without running into problems. Otherwise I would suggest what you are implying is impossible.

[mjd@curious-george:~ ] sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree... Done
Calculating upgrade... Done
The following packages have been kept back:
  gnome-doc-utils
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 1 not upgraded.

The only conflicting package on my system is bugs in Ubuntu's Development repos (gnome-doc-utils needs to be rebuilt for python2.4). Thats using three repositories built for debian.

And it wasn't just a debate over one single broken package in Ubuntu. Many people in the Debian world believe that it is the the entire Ubuntu pilosophy that is broken. They behave like a seperatist movement, taking time, attention and developers away from the official Debian effort - while making efforts too to even go as far as to break Debian compatability - while making very little effort to make any contribution back to the community which inspired its original conception.

Every time a Ubuntu developer fixes a bug in either the software or the package, the original debian maintainer is notified. Ubuntu does a lot more than you give them credit for; most of the work needed to Debian to modularize Xorg was provided by Ubuntu developers. Ubuntu developers played a big part in getting the new debian-installer ready. Should Ubuntu be held back because some Debian developers have "not invented here" syndrome? The Debian community took three years to get a release out. This is unacceptable, and is the reason they started to lose ground to vastly inferior (technically) distros.This community is dieing because of politics, and the entire model needs a revamping. Ubuntu showed that if you take this base, but remove the huge amount of politics surrounding it, you can easily capture user marketshare. By breaking just this little bit, Ubuntu has done more for Debian than any other derived distro.

Edited July 7, 2005 by code_monkey