Allchin on Vista: "It's Not Going to Work"

[Commodore Max]

This whole fuss was about the restart of the coding. The first "wave" of Longhorn Builds (the 4xxx series) was based on Windows XP SP1 I believe. With the 5048 build, Microsoft completely restarted coding (although they didn't really "lose" any work) but basing themselves on the Windows Server 2003 codebase.

It wasn't really abandoned. The PDC would not have taken place if it had been cancelled.

[NEVER85]

summing up: the grand plans were abandoned, and now we have Window XP second edition

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Windows XP Second Edition is basically Service Pack 2.

[Kilgore Trout]

if that was true, MS would have charged for it

No.

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well you entitled to you opinion, just as I am...I would have like to have seen the registry gone, once and for all, that would have been revolutionary, other than that I still say its an upgrade to XP

Edited September 27, 2005 by Kilgore Trout

[Fred Derf Veteran]

[Thread from Windows Beta Discussion Merged with this one]

What I love about these articles is how they're written in the future

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It's been Tuesday for some time in the land down under.

Now, tell me, can you hear the thunder?

[Andrew Lyle Global Moderator]

why don't people notice.. that Microsoft can't live on windows XP forever.. people want change.. people want upgrades.

and this article is so old... why can't people wait till it's done, before shooting there mouth off?

Play it before you hate it.

[Jexel]

I'm sure Gate's and his team of engineers will come up with an solution that implements both useability and innovation.

[Computer Guru]

guys, give MS a break!

[redfish]

watch... vista will come out and will best os x with all of its features, and people will still say 'vista is just xp sp3', probably the same people who had said os x was far better than windows xp.

the article talks about how allchin wanted windows to be able to have a component taken out and still have it work; that sounds like what we've been hearing about vista when it was still called longhorn. this article is probably referring to events that happened before microsoft started revealing to developers what longhorn would consist of.

a lot of talk about things being abandoned for longhorn really make no sense for people who have followed it in the news. on the surface windows might not look that different, i think people expect too much. have you all watched the downloadable videos of allchin promoting longhorn features?

[Proforma]

nobody is saying Vista isn't coming out. the original WSJ ariticle documents the more ambitious features being jettisoned and why

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One feature of Vista was dropped, that being of WinFS and that was ONLY dropped from shipping with Vista. It's already out in beta and will be in beta when VISTA ships, big whoop.

Geeeez guys, make this into something it's not!

Vista is not XP service pack 3, if you think that, then you will be in for a shock.

[Brandon Live Veteran]

Ugh, what a terribly written "article."

It's about one of the Longhorn resets that happened well over a year ago. It's not news. There were many reasons for the Longhorn resets... A big part of the second reset was because of XP SP2 and Win2003 SP1. A lot of resources were devoted to those projects for a long time, as well as the x64 versions of Win2k3. Longhorn was reset to a new starting point working from the work done on the Win2k3 SP1 release. There were other changes... A lot was learned in the development of XP SP2 and 2003 SP1. This surely influenced the development process for Longhorn. There were other changes, too. It was determined that building an OS on top of Avalon, Indigo, and WinFS was a bad idea when those technologies wouldn't be completed until near the same time as the OS itself.

That's what I think Allchin was talking about... You can't say "Avalon and WinFS will be done in June, we'll build the Explorer shell and browser, on top of them and ship it in August." That's not enough time. The shell team would be sitting on their proverbial asses waiting for the technology to be there.

[vcv]

summing up: the grand plans were abandoned, and now we have Window XP second edition

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if that was true, MS would have charged for it

well you entitled to you opinion, just as I am...I would have like to have seen the registry gone, once and for all, that would have been revolutionary, other than that I still say its an upgrade to XP

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Vista is a bigger change than any of the following

95 -> 98

98 -> 98SE

98SE -> ME

ME -> XP is arguable since they started using the NT kernel, but I'd say it's still bigger.

Now if it's bigger than at least those first 3, why would you fcall it XP SP3 or XP second edition? That's just ridiculous.

[Brandon Live Veteran]

Vista is a bigger change than any of the following

95 -> 98

98 -> 98SE

98SE -> ME

ME -> XP is arguable since they started using the NT kernel, but I'd say it's still bigger.

Now if it's bigger than at least those first 3, why would you fcall it XP SP3 or XP second edition?  That's just ridiculous.

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The development cycle is remiscent of NT4 -> Windows 2000 (NT5).

However, I don't think it's necessarily as big a change as that. Even if it is technologically, it won't be as important... because Windows 2000 made NT useable for home users (even if it wasn't perfect for it til XP).

[AminoSC]

I've gained alot of respect for Allchin and his boys. They were brilliant to come up with this idea. We're all going to benefit! I can't believe they didn't do it sooner.

:woot:

[Rudy]

because Windows 2000 made NT useable for home users (even if it wasn't perfect for it til XP).

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i think it was perfect in Win2k and they screwed it up in XP :pinch:

[vcv]

i think it was perfect in Win2k and they screwed it up in XP :pinch:

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What do you think they screwed up exactly?

It's only fair to compare Windows XP with SP2 to Windows 2000 SP.. whatever..2..3..4?

[Kilgore Trout]

does anybody remember Gates saying, as big as "windows 95? its been scaled back, let's admit it, I'm not out to bash MS, but they have been working on WinFS since Cairo, I'll take a wait and see attitude

Edited September 27, 2005 by Kilgore Trout

[AminoSC]

The Wall Street Journal article is MUCH better. Facinating read.