Allchin on Vista: "It's Not Going to Work"


Recommended Posts

This whole fuss was about the restart of the coding. The first "wave" of Longhorn Builds (the 4xxx series) was based on Windows XP SP1 I believe. With the 5048 build, Microsoft completely restarted coding (although they didn't really "lose" any work) but basing themselves on the Windows Server 2003 codebase.

It wasn't really abandoned. The PDC would not have taken place if it had been cancelled.

if that was true, MS would have charged for it

No.

586583661[/snapback]

well you entitled to you opinion, just as I am...I would have like to have seen the registry gone, once and for all, that would have been revolutionary, other than that I still say its an upgrade to XP

Edited by Kilgore Trout

[Thread from Windows Beta Discussion Merged with this one]

What I love about these articles is how they're written in the future

586583748[/snapback]

It's been Tuesday for some time in the land down under.

Now, tell me, can you hear the thunder?

why don't people notice.. that Microsoft can't live on windows XP forever.. people want change.. people want upgrades.

and this article is so old... why can't people wait till it's done, before shooting there mouth off?

Play it before you hate it.

watch... vista will come out and will best os x with all of its features, and people will still say 'vista is just xp sp3', probably the same people who had said os x was far better than windows xp.

the article talks about how allchin wanted windows to be able to have a component taken out and still have it work; that sounds like what we've been hearing about vista when it was still called longhorn. this article is probably referring to events that happened before microsoft started revealing to developers what longhorn would consist of.

a lot of talk about things being abandoned for longhorn really make no sense for people who have followed it in the news. on the surface windows might not look that different, i think people expect too much. have you all watched the downloadable videos of allchin promoting longhorn features?

nobody is saying Vista isn't coming out. the original WSJ ariticle documents the more ambitious features being jettisoned and why

586583613[/snapback]

One feature of Vista was dropped, that being of WinFS and that was ONLY dropped from shipping with Vista. It's already out in beta and will be in beta when VISTA ships, big whoop.

Geeeez guys, make this into something it's not!

Vista is not XP service pack 3, if you think that, then you will be in for a shock.

Ugh, what a terribly written "article."

It's about one of the Longhorn resets that happened well over a year ago. It's not news. There were many reasons for the Longhorn resets... A big part of the second reset was because of XP SP2 and Win2003 SP1. A lot of resources were devoted to those projects for a long time, as well as the x64 versions of Win2k3. Longhorn was reset to a new starting point working from the work done on the Win2k3 SP1 release. There were other changes... A lot was learned in the development of XP SP2 and 2003 SP1. This surely influenced the development process for Longhorn. There were other changes, too. It was determined that building an OS on top of Avalon, Indigo, and WinFS was a bad idea when those technologies wouldn't be completed until near the same time as the OS itself.

That's what I think Allchin was talking about... You can't say "Avalon and WinFS will be done in June, we'll build the Explorer shell and browser, on top of them and ship it in August." That's not enough time. The shell team would be sitting on their proverbial asses waiting for the technology to be there.

summing up: the grand plans were abandoned, and now we have Window XP second edition

586583560[/snapback]

if that was true, MS would have charged for it

well you entitled to you opinion, just as I am...I would have like to have seen the registry gone, once and for all, that would have been revolutionary, other than that I still say its an upgrade to XP

586583765[/snapback]

Vista is a bigger change than any of the following

95 -> 98

98 -> 98SE

98SE -> ME

ME -> XP is arguable since they started using the NT kernel, but I'd say it's still bigger.

Now if it's bigger than at least those first 3, why would you fcall it XP SP3 or XP second edition? That's just ridiculous.

Vista is a bigger change than any of the following

95 -> 98

98 -> 98SE

98SE -> ME

ME -> XP is arguable since they started using the NT kernel, but I'd say it's still bigger.

Now if it's bigger than at least those first 3, why would you fcall it XP SP3 or XP second edition?  That's just ridiculous.

586584911[/snapback]

The development cycle is remiscent of NT4 -> Windows 2000 (NT5).

However, I don't think it's necessarily as big a change as that. Even if it is technologically, it won't be as important... because Windows 2000 made NT useable for home users (even if it wasn't perfect for it til XP).

does anybody remember Gates saying, as big as "windows 95? its been scaled back, let's admit it, I'm not out to bash MS, but they have been working on WinFS since Cairo, I'll take a wait and see attitude

Edited by Kilgore Trout
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Posts

    • Why Delta Chat is the best decentralized messenger you have probably never tried by Paul Hill There is no shortage of messaging apps out there; we have WhatsApp, Messenger, and Telegram, just to name a few. While Meta has taken steps to incorporate encryption into Messenger and WhatsApp, they still leave a lot to be desired. If you are in the market for a messaging app that promotes security, privacy, and optional anonymity, you'll want to read what I have to say about Delta Chat. For those not familiar with Delta Chat, rather than relying on centralized servers as you do with Facebook Messenger, it relies on email. Essentially, it is a chat interface that feels like a messaging app, but secretly in the background, it is firing off emails. In the past, you used to have to sign in with your email account. When you sent messages to people, it would just be sending encrypted messages to their inbox, which their Delta Chat client would decrypt. When I first learned about Delta Chat, it required users to sign in with an email account, but I was pleasantly surprised upon trying it in 2026 that this is no longer a requirement, or the preferred method was to use the app. Recently, I’ve tried UAD-ng on my old Nokia 3.4 to disable most of the Google apps because the bootloader is locked, and this is the next best option. While finding replacement apps in F-Droid, I came across Delta Chat again, and it has undergone quite a big change since I last used it, with its new chatmail relays, which no longer require you to sign in to your own email account, providing anonymity, and they offer greater security. Android and Desktop Delta Chat apps. Not only does it run on my de-googled phone, but it also works on desktop computers and iOS, making it truly ubiquitous. For me, Delta Chat is a wonderful alternative messenger because it gives you more control. It supports switching between different profiles, which you can set up super quickly; you don’t register a username, you don’t register a password. The only thing you do have is a random string email address on a chatmail relay (which you don’t have to memorize). To maintain access to your profile, you just need to add a second device to your account via QR code or make a backup of your account, which you can restore later. Fail to do these, your account is gone - as it should be if you don’t want to leave accounts that could get hacked later on. My decision to block Google stuff on my Nokia was done for practical reasons; the device sucked when it launched, and it sucks even more now. The nice thing about F-Droid and the apps within is that they’re usually lightweight, free of bloat, and work well on that device. What was inconvenient for me was that it was hard to send messages from that device, say if I wanted to copy a code over to my main phone or send family members a link from that device. That’s when I decided to look at the available chat apps and saw Delta Chat. Another nice thing about Delta Chat is its notifications. Some messaging apps rely on Google’s ecosystem for notification transport on Android; however, with Delta Chat, it can use Google’s solutions if you have Play Services or MicroG installed. Otherwise, it is able to keep a background connection to the chatmail relay server so that you can get notified when you receive a message. As free software, the code of Delta Chat is open for all who want to take it and build upon it. In the future, if the developers of Delta Chat make a catastrophically bad decision and take the app in an undesirable direction, users can take the code and fork the project. This contrasts with closed-source apps from corporations that can take their products in any direction they like. By relying on free software instead of closed-source programs, you actually control your computing. I’ve spoken at length about how running this type of software is like owning your own home rather than renting it. The same applies here; if you use Delta Chat, you don’t need to worry about it going away in the future. Whether it is Telegram, WhatsApp, or Messenger, you are required to register a username and password to use these services. A major flaw in this design is that anyone can try various passwords and potentially break into your account with your complete chat history intact. Sure, there is encryption in Messenger, where you need a second PIN and two-factor authentication in Telegram, but breaches happen all the time. Unlike before, when you used to sign in to your email account to send and receive messages, the primary way to do it now is to create an account on a chatmail relay. The resulting email address is a random string followed by the name of the relay you pick. This means you can start and begin adding contacts Without a username and password, you either need to ensure you have a backup or at least one device running your Delta Chat profile. The primary way to log in on another device is to go to the settings and add a second device. Then, you’ll just scan a QR code with your new device, and it’ll log in to your account and sync all your chat history and contacts. To end users, Delta Chat just looks like any instant messenger; however, it is really sending your messages as encrypted emails to your contact. This is pretty cool from a censorship perspective, as it makes the service more difficult to block. Previously, the main way to use the app was by logging in with email, but nowadays, it’s recommended that you use chatmail relays. Chatmail relays temporarily hold messages in case your device is offline. They are cheap, simple servers that don’t store data as group states. Other information, like your name and avatar, only exists on your device and the devices of those you share your contact information with. The relays are also decentralized and operated by various groups and individuals. It is even possible to set up your own chatmail relay, but most people will want to use one hosted elsewhere. To keep your messages secure, Delta Chat uses a secure subset of the OpenPGP standard that gives you automatic end-to-end encryption. It also uses Secure-Join to exchange encryption setup information through QR-code scanning or invite links. Autocrypt is also used to automatically establish end-to-end encryption between contacts and all members of group chat, but sometime this year Autocrypt v2 will be rolled out, bringing post-quantum resistant encryption and forward secrecy. The Delta Chat FAQ is an interesting read that explains many more details about the app. Credit: Pexels Delta Chat is unique among messaging apps because it is built on email, a technology that’s decades old and isn’t going anywhere soon. What’s more is that email is not centralized either, so it’s far more difficult for any authoritarian regime to disrupt the Delta Chat app. I haven’t spoken too much about features yet, so I will do that now. Delta Chat allows you to do one-on-one chats, group chats, and create channels. It also supports file sharing and making audio and video calls when chatting one-to-one, but it’s not available for group chats right now. At the time of writing, the calling functionality is disabled and can be enabled in Settings > Advanced > Debug Calls. I have used the video calling feature, and the quality is excellent. It works over WebRTC, another open standard. The app also lets you send voice notes, enables disappearing messages, and has its own app ecosystem. I did try playing chess one time there, but it was a bit spotty; though, we did manage to complete the game with a victory for me. To add people to Delta Chat, you can either give them your Delta Chat link or your QR code to scan. These are the only ways to add users, so you won't have any spam bots bothering you. If the people you want to chat with don't have the app yet, just send them your link, and it will take them to a webpage where they can install the app and then add you. It's really quick for them to install it and get started, which is nice. Credit: Microsoft. The Majorana 2 quantum chip unveiled in 2026. I do not think quantum computers are too far out now, and I do hope that Delta Chat is able to push out Autocrypt v2 sooner, rather than later, so bad actors do not attempt to collect encrypted communications and then decrypt them in the future using quantum computers. By getting people’s messages post-quantum-safe now, users won’t have to worry when quantum computers start cracking legacy encryption. Overall, I would recommend this app to people who are already past WhatsApp and Messenger and have perhaps begun using apps like Telegram or Session. It shares a lot of characteristics with these apps and goes a lot further than Telegram in terms of security. By being based on email, it is also resistant to censorship, and the lack of a username and password makes you anonymous (if you want to be) and safe from brute force password cracking attempts. Let me know in the comments if you’ve tried Delta Chat recently. Do you think it's a good bulwark against governments that are tightening their grip on the internet?
    • Putin was behind Farage/Brexit and behind Trump/MAGA. Different idiot lying beasts, same fascist master. Same screwed up results for both nations.
    • For me the Final Fantasy games, Langrisser I & II, Hardspace: Shipbreaker, Horizon Forbidden West Complete Edition, Metaphor: ReFantazio and LUNAR Remastered Collection
  • Recent Achievements

    • One Year In
      bernmeister earned a badge
      One Year In
    • Week One Done
      Scoobystu earned a badge
      Week One Done
    • Week One Done
      tuben earned a badge
      Week One Done
    • First Post
      OffsetAbs earned a badge
      First Post
    • Reacting Well
      OffsetAbs earned a badge
      Reacting Well
  • Popular Contributors

    1. 1
      +primortal
      465
    2. 2
      +Edouard
      217
    3. 3
      PsYcHoKiLLa
      155
    4. 4
      Steven P.
      74
    5. 5
      FloatingFatMan
      71
  • Tell a friend

    Love Neowin? Tell a friend!