Whats the difference between these components?

[DeAd-EyE]

they all seem to decode audio...what's the diff?

[Borbus]

The only one that might decode audio is a reciever. I say might because you can have an anlogue reciever or a digital reciever. The digital one would decode stuff. A reciever would usually have an amp built in (but you can get digital recievers without amps). They recieve the signal from something like a cd player, tape player, or dvd player. The one that recieves from dvd player would probably be digital as it would decode the dolby digital or dts tracks from the dvd. Digital recievers are usually 5.1 but you can get recievers that will take a digital output from a cd player and decode it to analogue stereo.

An amplifier is a device used in audio that amplifies the signal. It increases the amplitude, or volume, of the sound. An analogue output from something like a cd player is called a line level output (usually called line out), this is a standard amplitude (can't remember what it is) but if you actually listen to that output on loudspeakers it is very quiet. An amplifier makes it loud enough to be used with loudspeakers.

A pre-amp is a type of amp used in guitar amplifiers. It is a low power amp that will distort easily giving an overdriven sound. The output of the pre-amp is then passed on to the power amp which amplifies it like I described above.

Hope that helps :)

[DeAd-EyE]

excellent..thanks.

i'm just glad 2 know that all i need is a good reciever :).

now all i need 2 do is find a sunfire dealer in ontario and i'm set.

[Galley]

Simple explanation:

An amplifier amplifies signals and outputs them to the speakers.

A pre-amplifier routes the signals to the amplifier to be amplified.

A receiver is a combination of the two, usually with an on-board tuner.

[DeAd-EyE]

sexcellent...

do u know what i'm looking at in terms of cost for a sunfire reciever?

do they make one that channels video signals as well (something with a few extra HDMI's would be nice since my TV only has one lol)

[Galley]

You can expect to pay $1000US for a receiver that does HDMI video switching. :(

You can always check out http://www.crutchfield.com/ They have tons of info and photos for every model.

[DeAd-EyE]

You can expect to pay $1000US for a receiver that does HDMI video switching. :(

You can always check out http://www.crutchfield.com/  They have tons of info and photos for every model.

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hmm...i was htinking about spending big money on an audio only reciever (i.e. sunfire)..and then just getting an HDMI switching box. i will carefully consider this crutchfeild option tho. thanks

[goji]

Excellent... still considering options :)

Receivers are all in one units... contains youre preamp/processor and amp under one chassis. Some people will swear by them, and others (mostly audiophiles) will lament on the tonal limitations that they offer. I fall into that category as I havent been impressed by the stereo capabilities of receivers. They are mostly HT units, not necessarily musical, there IS a difference.

Going the seperates routes, which consits of a pre/pro (which routes the signal) and an amp (which powes the speakers) will 10 times out of 10 provide much more power, clarity and clear sound.

Sunfire makes a good receiver, so your doing good there in regards to an all in one unit. As well, keep a good eye out for B&K, a very good American company that has creates great products!

Per my previous post to you, how much are you looking to spend, as well what speakers will you be running them with. Like I mentioned, certain speakers can be extremely touchy when it comes to receiver or amp running them.

Any other questions throw them out.

GK

[DeAd-EyE]

i'd like 2 spend about 3-4 grand on a reciever (or preamp/amp...and on second thought i don't really need additional video switching capabilities because PS3 will be on HDMI, DVD can use component, Digital HD Cable can use component, the audio goes into the reciever, and the VCR can go into another component or composit..whatever is leftover. The only question is what to do with my old skool systems that predate component (NES an sstuff) which i drag out once in a while because they're just damned fun).

As for speakers i really like the look and sound of klipsch. and they have a reference set for about 3 grand i believe. i'd probably start with 5.1 or 6.1 now and then in a year or 2 when 7.1+ becomes more common, but a matching speaker and add it in. so basically thats another 2-3 grand right there.

summary: 3-4 for the reciever

speakers: 2-3 grand

(naturally, i'd always like to pay less :) )

also, i have a question about hooking up using different connections. i'm assuming most recievers and i think my tv as well can use optical cable. does this mean that i use the 3 component wires for video and the digital optical cable for audio?

HDMI, DVI and stuff run it all thru 1 wire correct?

[Galley]

HDMI carries video, audio, and commands.

DVI carries video only.

[goji]

i'd like 2 spend about 3-4 grand on a reciever (or preamp/amp...and on second thought i don't really need additional video switching capabilities because PS3 will be on HDMI, DVD can use component, Digital HD Cable can use component, the audio goes into the reciever, and the VCR can go into another component or composit..whatever is leftover. The only question is what to do with my old skool systems that predate component (NES an sstuff) which i drag out once in a while because they're just damned fun).

Have you seen the back of the higher end pre/pros and receivers? Their are connections out the wazzoo! In my opinion you could have a difficiult time using all of the connections.

The Pre/Pro I am using right now is a B&K Ref 50 S1 and it has plenty hookups for just about... well anything. Most of your higher end equipment manufacturers will allow for software and firmware upgrades (at user expense) to update the pre/pro or receiver to keep them up to date with the changing standards in the market.

As for speakers i really like the look and sound of klipsch. and they have a reference set for about 3 grand i believe. i'd probably start with 5.1 or 6.1 now and then in a year or 2 when 7.1+ becomes more common, but a matching speaker and add it in. so basically thats another 2-3 grand right there.

If you have the money, defintley go with a 5.1 setup. In all honesty 6. and 7.1 setups are pointless. 8 times out of ten right now, the additional speaker added to the standard 5.1 setup will merely echo one of the other channeles. If you feel like you need 6 or 7 channels go for it, however, with the money you spend on 1 or two additional speakers you could put into your power source which makes all the difference in sound quality and performance.

summary: 3-4 for the reciever

speakers: 2-3 grand

(naturally, i'd always like to pay less :) )

Well ya, when I started to add up my bill I felt kinda bad thinking, do I really need all of this? When I finally got all the equipment home, I was blown away and the monetary figure meant nothing to me. I say this knowing that I had auditioned the same set of speakers I own with a Denon 3805 receiver in stereo mode..... it lacked so much power and clarity I was quite dissapointed. I ran with a component setup, and needless to say it kicked the all in one receiver smack in the croch.

It's almost pointless to purchase a receiver over 3 grand. The quality of a receiver at that price range begins to taper off. Having the amp and processor under one chassis tends to limit the power going into both units. As well, there is alot of heat being generated there, and over heating is the No. 1 culprit of amp failure period. There are great receviers out there, and there are great amps and pre/pros out there.

Purchase something that can upgrade with you. The audio video standards are changing in the market. Realize this no matter what you purchase. You want an item that can last for the next couple years without being considered out of date. With that in mind, Id say purchase your amps to drive the speakers, then a decent Pre/Pro that can be upgraded for the newer standardss as the become available or purchase a new pre/pro entirely. Amps dont go out of date, the processor does.

Things to consider for a great HT.

GK

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[DeAd-EyE]

^ GOJI, thanks for the advice.

I'm going 2 best buy 2day to pick up a whole bunch of monster cable audio/video crap (3 Component Video Cables (DVD, Cable Box, and an Extra one for whatever), 2 Digital Optical Audio (i'm still not sure what the correct term for this is, is that it? for the DVD, and 1 component audio (for the tv to reciever.)

As for the reciever, i've decided that i really am overspending at the moment and since i'm not an ultra audiophile with the necessary skills to make minute adjustments, i'm going to stick with a reciver instead of the separate pre-amp/amp route.

After putting my ego in check i've done some searching and come up with this Yamaha whose most importent features to me are: THX, Automatic EQ Adjustment which was what i loved about BOSE in the first place, and a ****load of sound format supports.

YAMAHA HTR5890S

From what i've learned here on neowin, it is best to plug as many video sources directly into the TV, and then run all the audio into the reciever, because the reciever has a tendency to degrade video signal quality.

Any Comments on the reciever, or suggestions on how to wire this thing up are welcome.

[goji]

Be sure to purchase the receiver with a BB CC, so you have a grace period to audition the receiver with your music through your speakers.

If you buy Klipsch, know that you could have a brighter sound with a Yamaha receiver, since Klipsch speakers by default are extremly efficient. Its possible to run them on alkaline batteries, but ya probbaly would kill them for poor power (so dont!).

Note, in order to truly appreciate the receiver you choose, allow it to warm up. Give it a day or two to play some music before you can truly evaluate the sound. It might not be a no brainer, but saves you much gried in the long run as for tonal sound.

If you dont like the sound, simply return it, and shop for another receiver. Most receivers will give you the punch you need for movies, especially in the 1,000 dollar ball park range. However, if you want a musical receiver, you may have to shop around and demo to see if it reproduces the sound you like the most.

As for monster cable, dont get caught up in the hype. See if the salesperson can work the price down for you. If not, shop for them elsewhere. Especially, if you buy your speakers through a bigger brand HT store say Ult Elec, if you purchase so much A/V gear, they may just throw in the cables for free, if you ask :) (if not severly reduced)

BTW, would you mind elaborating on the speakers you are actually purchasing, brand and model?

Have fun!

GK

[DeAd-EyE]

speakers are a whole separate issue but they will most likely be some form of klipsch, i've heard nothing but good things about them. i know there are some better specialty brands out there, if there are any you can recommend, please feel free to have at it.

As for monster cable, i'm geting it at 50% off, so its not too too bad, plus whatever they throw in for free.

[goji]

You realize by now when you ask me to have at it, your gonna get another dissertation, but h'ear' goes ;)

speakers are a whole separate issue but they will most likely be some form of klipsch, i've heard nothing but good things about them. i know there are some better specialty brands out there, if there are any you can recommend, please feel free to have at it.

In all honesty, (semi bias) the Klipsch speakers are some of the best. If you have the money, and the room, the speaker that started it all, the Klipschorn is considered to be in some circles one of the best speakers ever made, and its American :D Made during a time when quality and customer service was an understatment. The Heritage line is the utmost in audio for the diehard Klipsch's fan. The Reference line (the current flagship series) is not to be discredited. They are just as good, at the fraction of the size and cost of the Heritage series.

"Efficiency is inversely proportional to distortion."

This classic Paul W. Klipsch observation applies to every Klipsch loudspeaker and results in reliable, durable products that deliver powerful, detailed audio performance.

As efficiency rises, distortion falls. Klipsch's industry-leading high efficiency allows us to create speakers that have a fraction of the distortion of ordinary speakers.

Based on sound acoustical science, Paul W. Klipsch discovered that the use of horn technology was and is the best way to get high efficiency and low distortion from a loudspeaker. In addition, horn technology also brings the added benefits of controlled directivity, even tonal balance and wide dynamic range. Together, these four design principles - high efficiency with low distortion, controlled directivity, even tonal balance, and wide dynamic range - are the foundation for Klipsch's superb performance.

And that my friend is why many people love them and why they are one of the biggest speaker companies in America and the world. Now, I'm not meaning to do this to discredit any other brand out there. Other speakers, brands and models have thier strength. The point I want you to take from this is that if you purchase the higher end Reference Series, particularly the Reference 7 line, that powered by the proper audio equipment, they can compete with the likes of Martin Logn, B&W etc.

From what I have read the more expensive speaker brands lack the efficency that happens to be a hallmark of the Klipsch brand and therefore require bigger rated amps to allow them to perform at thier best. This is where seperates come in, and at a price point, when you consider for example B&W speakers and the "horsepower" required to drive them to acheive their maximum level of output, the system you are building now will be much more enticing and enjoyable!

Remember the law of diminishing returns, you can only put so much into it and receive so much back, there has to be a limit, and you have to decide how much that is.

From WikiPedia (love that site!!)

Marginalism is the notion that what is most important for decision making is the marginal or last unit of consumption or production. For example, one automobile is very useful for getting around. An additional automobile might be useful in case the first is being repaired, or for spare parts, but it is not as useful as the first. A third automobile has even less utility than the first two. Given the price of cars, one would not expect many people to own three cars because the benefit they receive on the third car would be unlikely to exceed the price.

(meaning how much gear do ya really need?)

and

A consequence of diminishing marginal returns is that as total investment increases, the total return on investment as a proportion of the total investment (the average product or return) also decreases.

(meaning how much money will be willing to put out until your satisfied?)

As for monster cable, i'm geting it at 50% off, so its not too too bad, plus whatever they throw in for free.

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Great! The bigger your purchases are, the more goodies you get. See if they can thrown in some speaker stands if you choose bookshelf speakers and anything else you could use to build your system. Make a great repoire with your salesman so that when you go to purchase more gear, its:

a. on a first name basis

b. allows you to receive great deals

or

c. in the event something doesn't work out, s/he will be more than happy to help you out!

Your playing a great game of ball, kudos!

GK

[DeAd-EyE]

goji,

i have no problem with dissertations..i love em..keep em comming..or put out a newsletter....dealer's choice :thumbsup:

another question i have is...how do systems respond if u mix/match speaker sets.

i'm just asking because i have a pair of old towers from a previous component stereo that are still good. if i add them in as zone 2 or as part of zone 1, will it **** up the sound enuff 2 be noticable? with the auto EQ correction of the reciever compensate?

[goji]

newsletter, well... how about a cleaned up version pinned for anyone considering a sound system?

hmmmm... mixing speakers arent really suggested, its going to be your call. Each speaker will have a different driver and crossover range; meaning different tonal quality and frequency range.

you "could" put it together, but know that the speakers, even from the same company, will sound different when mixing and matching. I highly suggest for you to keep everything within the same "voice"family" as a shift in tonal quality will have a speaker if not more stick out either like a soar thumb or not hear the other ones when compared to the other speakers running.

Try it out, if you like, do it. If not, then, setup a 2nd system (or zone 2) ... say in your bedroom?

GK

[DeAd-EyE]

^ haha, yeah i'm sure my GF would love to see two huge oldskool wooden towers in place of nightstands next 2 the bed..

all i'd need then is a ron jeremy's greatest hits record and i'm in business.....or in the doghouse..i'm not sure how she'd react on this one.

[DeAd-EyE]

oh..another point of discussion: the importence and actualy difference THX makes.

THX Ultra2 systems all seem to be in the 5grand and up range.

THX Select systems are very afordable, but i was wondering what the difference between THX select certified and THX Select processing is.

[goji]

THX could be considered... pointless.

Its considered a marketing badge of honor desinged to have the consumer beleive that a THX system is more superior than another sytem out there. Not always the case.

Visit the THX website to read up on the standards.

*NOTE*, the standards for Home and Theater products are much different than those used in multimedia products.

THX

Yes, THX Ultra 2 is a bit more expensive as its labled for large rooms. My equipment is Ultra 2 and while its not 5 grand it comes close to it at MSRP.

GK

"no dissertations for a while, I'm spent.

[Joel]

A receiver is a combination of the two, usually with an on-board tuner.

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A receiver always has a tuner. The pre-amp/amp combination without a tuner is called an integrated amplifier.

[DeAd-EyE]

THX could be considered... pointless.

Its considered a marketing badge of honor desinged to have the consumer beleive that a THX system is more superior than another sytem out there.  Not always the case.

Visit the THX website to read up on the standards.

*NOTE*, the standards for Home and Theater products are much different than those used in multimedia products.

THX

Yes, THX Ultra 2 is a bit more expensive as its labled for large rooms.  My equipment is Ultra 2 and while its not 5 grand it comes close to it at MSRP.

GK

"no dissertations for a while, I'm spent.

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GK, how large is a large room by their definition?

[goji]

eh,

from what thier website states:

THX Ultra2

THX Ultra2 Certified Products are engineered and designed for large home theaters. Viewing distance of approximately 12 feet / 4 meters from the display to the listening position.

Now, I wouldnt be necesarily buying into the THX bandwagon as any good peice of hardware (amp and speaker combo) can best out the supposed THX room filling experience, but thats my own opinion.

GK

"its called marketing, and my gear is THX Ultra 2, shows you how bright I am"