PS3 May not be fully backwards compatible...


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It's a bigger deal for the PS3 since they have been "yelling" about backwards compatability?  Didn't XBox360 also "scream at the top of their lungs" that they would have backwards compatablility.  I think it's a bigger deal for the XBox360 since they "screamed at the top of their lungs" whereas Sony has only been "yelling". :p

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I have been following all 3 consoles very close, and I don't remember MS ever yelling it. If I recall correctly, they have stated from the beginning it will support the top games. Sony is the one that has been yelling out all its features from the beginning

You're all right, this isn't really that big an issue, and PS3 will probably still lead the market in the next gen. But what really bothers me is that stuff like this happens from time to time with Sony, proving that they're not a reliable company. They just like to create a huge hype, trash the competition, promise a lot of stuff, and then little by little taking stuff away, and when reality hits, it's not so big a thing as they promised (they should consider a career in politics). And the sad part is that people don't realise it, but instead ignore it, as "ooh, it's Sony, it makes you cool, I don't care if they trash this or that, even though they promised".

Anyway, that's my opinion, I just wishpeople would open their eyes a little. The PS3 will still be a very good console, and prolly get many good games, but if people would start to complain when they pull off stuff like his, they (Sony) would prolly try and do a better job to please the market and make their console better.

MS hasnt been "screamed at the top of their lungs" that they'd have full compatability, they've been saying the top selling games, and then from there the games that sold less etc etc.

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Ummm, if you would notice I was mocking the previous poster and his use of the word yelling.

Edited by mufdvr3669
I have been following all 3 consoles very close, and I don't remember MS ever yelling it. If I recall correctly, they have stated from the beginning it will support  the top games. Sony is the one that has been yelling out all its features from the beginning

You're all right, this isn't really that big an issue, and PS3 will probably still lead the market in the next gen. But what really bothers me is that stuff like this happens from time to time with Sony, proving that they're not a reliable company. They just like to create a huge hype, trash the competition, promise a lot of stuff, and then little by little taking stuff away, and when reality hits, it's not so big a thing as they promised (they should consider a career in politics). And the sad part is that people don't realise it, but instead ignore it, as "ooh, it's Sony, it makes you cool, I don't care if they trash this or that, even though they promised".

Anyway, that's my opinion, I just wishpeople would open their eyes a little. The PS3 will still be a very good console, and prolly get many good games, but if people would start to complain when they pull off stuff like his, they (Sony) would prolly try and do a better job to please the market and make their console better.

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I agree, you summed up my thoughts pretty much, except I think Xbox360 will be the new console king

I agree, you summed up my thoughts pretty much, except I think Xbox360 will be the new console king

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Maybe, but it's going to be hard. Xbox doesn't have as many exclusives, which in my opinion is what makes you decide on a console, but then again, all PS exclusives come from third parties, so, if MS pays ...

Personally, I think what you're seeing is a response to the different philosophies of these two companies.

Microsoft aims to underpromise and overdeliver.

Sony aims to make as much hype as possible as early as possible and what they actually ship is a secondary concern.

Thing is, out of the 1000 XBOX games(according to GS) there are, 360 will only support the top 100 of them.

Now let's see. PS2 has 1900 games. And... PS1 has 1800 games. So out of 3700 Sony's PS2 doesn't support about 50 of them. In other words the PS2 supports about 98.6% of the games on Playstation 1 and 2. While the 360 has 10%. Now let's say, the PS3 doesn't support 200 games additional games. That'll be 93% of all the games on PS1, and PS2.

That's pretty damn good if you ask me, better effort that Microsoft is making anyways.

Sony Magic.  Only crappy consoles like the 360 use emulation.  Stupid piece of crap 360.

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Hmm... do you even know the advanges of emulation?

Higher Resolutions.

Higher Frame Rates.

Crisper Textures.

If you have any experience with this stuff you will know.

Thing is, out of the 1000 XBOX games(according to GS) there are, 360 will only support the top 100 of them.

Now let's see. PS2 has 1900 games. And... PS1 has 1800 games. So out of 3700 Sony's PS2 doesn't support about 50 of them. In other words the PS2 supports about 98.6% of the games on Playstation 1 and 2.  While the 360 has 10%. Now let's say, the PS3 doesn't support 200 games additional games. That'll be 93% of all the games on PS1, and PS2.

That's pretty damn good if you ask me, better effort that Microsoft is making anyways.

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Umm... where did they ever say the X360 would only support 100 Xbox games? Oh wait, they didn't, and you just made that up.

i dont care tbh, gamers always say "oh i want backwards compatability" but after 3 months or so nobody plays the older games anyway (other than people who took those games majorly seriously) and for those classic games but thats it really.

its not that important.

Umm... where did they ever say the X360 would only support 100 Xbox games?  Oh wait, they didn't, and you just made that up.

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well microsoft did say, EXCLUSIVE xbox games, so that would be.... Halo and Halo 2, YEY!!!! im so looking forward towards this system....

Gears of War is gonna be crayzeh!

Umm... where did they ever say the X360 would only support 100 Xbox games?  Oh wait, they didn't, and you just made that up.

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I could have swore someone said Microsoft would support only the top selling 100 games. o.o;

And: http://www.joystiq.com/entry/1234000607062969/

I guess we'll know next week what the number really is. Highly doubt it's more than 50% though.

I could have swore someone said Microsoft would support only the top selling 100 games. o.o;

And: http://www.joystiq.com/entry/1234000607062969/

I guess we'll know next week what the number really is. Highly doubt it's more than 50% though.

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Yes, that was mentioned, but they didn't say "we are only support the top 100 titles" they said "it will support atleast the top 100 titles"

Meaning on release day the top 100 titles should work fine, not that no game except for the top 100 would work

if sony made something called sony sh*t then i bet people would still buy it only coz it wud have a sony logo on it. People will still buy the PS3 regardless of what it is capeble of. Maybe coz they want it to go with thier HD Sony TV and surround sound system. or maybe becoz its a sony product.....

:rolleyes:

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That is the sad damn truth :(

I need to wake up?  You are the one who thinks backwards compatability is a nail in a console's coffin for a few games.

Yes and developers were unhappy with the developing for the PS2 yet they still made games and it has the largest game library.  Developers are going to develop for the console with the largest fanbase or whatever company will pay them for exclusives no matter how difficult it is to program.  It is all about money for game developers, they could care less about the difficulty of programming for a console no matter how much they complain about it.

Did it ever come across your mind that people may like games that come out on the PS2 and that is why they bought it?

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THERES THE PROBLEM; Sony (as a company) is suffering economically. Thats another reasons experts are saying that Sony wont be able to deliver at 100% their super console.

Will the PS3 actually do anything to improve the graphics in PS1/2 Games. I know the PS2 did a crappy job of cleaning up PS1 games...

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Games are written for a certain hardward. You just cant magically improve them

and how do you think the ps3 is going to run the older games? Emulation of the ps2's hardware.

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Accually PS2 had PS1 elements in it to "emulate" hardware wise PS1 games...

Thing is, out of the 1000 XBOX games(according to GS) there are, 360 will only support the top 100 of them.

Now let's see. PS2 has 1900 games. And... PS1 has 1800 games. So out of 3700 Sony's PS2 doesn't support about 50 of them. In other words the PS2 supports about 98.6% of the games on Playstation 1 and 2.  While the 360 has 10%. Now let's say, the PS3 doesn't support 200 games additional games. That'll be 93% of all the games on PS1, and PS2.

That's pretty damn good if you ask me, better effort that Microsoft is making anyways.

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I honestly dont belive that Xbox has 1000 games and the PS2 has 1900....There is something wrong with those numbers.

and how do you think the ps3 is going to run the older games? Emulation of the ps2's hardware.

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No. The same of the PS2: embeded hardware to control I/O (PS1 processor).

Sony don't need emulation, because is excelence in hardware.

if sony made something called sony sh*t then i bet people would still buy it only coz it wud have a sony logo on it. People will still buy the PS3 regardless of what it is capeble of. Maybe coz they want it to go with thier HD Sony TV and surround sound system. or maybe becoz its a sony product.....

:rolleyes:

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Maybe people are buying the system because it has good games on it. If I like the games that they are providing, why does it matter if I can't play the 50 or so previous system games? I already own a 360 (and waiting for it to come here), and I plan on getting the other systems. Just because people buy the system does not make them as dense as you are.

have you been asleep in the last few days or summit. seriously wake up.

Sony is recieving negative publicity recently becase certain developers are un-happy etc etc and now this. maybe if your read other threads in the forum you would know. Also who said that people wont buy it?

if sony made something called sony sh*t then i bet people would still buy it only coz it wud have a sony logo on it. People will still buy the PS3 regardless of what it is capeble of. Maybe coz they want it to go with thier HD Sony TV and surround sound system. or maybe becoz its a sony product.....

:rolleyes:

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If MS made something called MS poop then i bet people would still buy it only coz it wud have a MS logo on it. People will still buy the XBox360 regardless of what it is capeble of. Maybe coz they want it to go with thier MS Computer and media center. or maybe becoz its a MS product.....

I never knew making stupid fanboy posts was so easy. :woot:

Maybe people are buying the system because it has good games on it. If I like the games that they are providing, why does it matter if I can't play the 50 or so previous system games?

maybe people do buy them for the games... maybe? but there are quite a few cross playform games these days do i wouldnt be 100% sure on that statement. Sometimes certain exclusives do clinch it like FF series for the PS and Halo for the xbox....

I already own a 360 (and waiting for it to come here), and I plan on getting the other systems. Just because people buy the system does not make them as dense as you are.

ohh please spare me your crap, i currently own a PS1, PSP, sold my ps2 for my xbox, i have pre-ordered an xbox360 and im waiting on more info on the rev and PS3 as i am thinking of purchasing them when more info is availible and playable content is released for them.

Dense? i think not i do like to keep my options open and i hopefully will have all 3 major consoles next year or the year after.

Any queries take a look at my sig

:rolleyes:

hmm another nail in the coffin for sony?
have you been asleep in the last few days or summit. seriously wake up.

Sony is recieving negative publicity recently becase certain developers are un-happy etc etc and now this. maybe if your read other threads in the forum you would know. Also who said that people wont buy it?if sony made something called sony sh*t then i bet people would still buy it only coz it wud have a sony logo on it. People will still buy the PS3 regardless of what it is capeble of. Maybe coz they want it to go with thier HD Sony TV and surround sound system. or maybe becoz its a sony product.....

:rolleyes:

I know Sony has been shouting about it, but not having full backward compatibility will neither kill Sony's PS3, nor will kill the X360. For a person who says they are open-minded about the new systems, you certainly do a lot of PS3 bashing.

Edited by Hova
If MS made something called MS poop then i bet people would still buy it only coz it wud have a MS logo on it. People will still buy the XBox360 regardless of what it is capeble of. Maybe coz they want it to go with thier MS Computer and media center. or maybe becoz its a MS product.....

I never knew making stupid fanboy posts was so easy. :woot:

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very original. you deserve a medal. But i think you are missing the point and you have no decent come back apart from just rewording what i wrote.

M$ is not as diverse as sony is. M$ makes windows and MCE and other stuff like Xbox.

Sony on the other hand makes almost every single electronic item, including PC's (sony viaos) which ironically have windows on them. So whose ya daddy.

:laugh:

I know Sony has been shouting about it, but not having full backward compatibility will neither kill Sony's PS3, nor will kill the X360. For a person who says they are open-minded about the new systems, you certainly do a lot of PS3 bashing.

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Sorry mate if i put my self accross in that way, as for the PS3 bashing, well its just counter attacking the overhype created by sony. I have nothing against sony apart from that they over promise and under deliver.

very original. you deserve a medal. But i think you are missing the point and you have no decent come back apart from just rewording what i wrote.

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Point. You had a point to your first post??? Did you ever think people bought a console cause they like the games??? Not because it was a certain brand and they had to be #1 fanboy to deal with some kind of e-penis inferiority complex. Maybe you was missing the point to my reply in how easy it is to come up with some overly exaggerated fanboy garbage.

Edited by mufdvr3669
well microsoft did say, EXCLUSIVE xbox games, so that would be.... Halo and Halo 2, YEY!!!! im so looking forward towards this system....

Gears of War is gonna be crayzeh!

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They never said it would only be exclusive games.

They said the top-selling games. And they said that support for additional Xbox 1 games will be provided over time.

There should be a list pretty soon, and I'm expecting it to be pretty extensive.

Point.  You had a point to your first post???  Did you ever think people bought a console cause they like the games???  Not because it was a certain brand and they had to be #1 fanboy to deal with some kind of e-penis inferiority complex.  Maybe you was missing the point to my reply in how easy it is to come up with some overly exaggerated fanboy garbage.

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i think the console comes first then the games. NO console = no games. its as simple as that. Before any games are announced i think the console gets announced first, correct me if im wrong. So obviously people will buy a console on what it is capeble of and not only its games. And just for the record i did not say games are not a factor when peoiple purchase consoles, where you have got that idea from i dont know but clearly you seem to be delusional

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SPC for NAS (TOS 7) is basically the same principle as UAC in Windows; it blocks executables from being launched by non-Super Users. After reaching out to my contact about these issues, I received the following response: Anyway, this only became clear when I closed the OpenClaw app screen and clicked on the OpenClaw icon in the taskbar; that is when I saw the message about disabling SPC. I think, due to the fact that this is a requirement, this should be a prompt during the installation process, not when closing the App Market and then trying to launch OpenClaw. There's also no 'Getting started' guide for people like me who have never used OpenClaw. I tried to add an LLM and discovered the tutorial led nowhere. That's when I started looking around the official TerraMaster forums, and I found a guide that helpfully explains that you won't get anywhere with OpenClaw unless you have a paid plan, which is disappointing because I imagined there would be an option to use a local LLM as I do in SubtitleEdit with Whisper-XXL. In addition, with the marketing imagery on the official site, it says that the OpenClaw feature is "all processed 100% locally for absolute privacy." which led me to believe that I could install a local LLM, not one that required paid tokens. In any case, TerraMaster does not provide guidance for this new feature, which was also a selling point of the F4-425 Pro! My contact also provided clarification about the above points I raised with TerraMaster Since it is not in the scope of the review to add paid services, I'll leave that to the people who are more qualified with OpenClaw. F4-425 Pro Surveillance App TOS also comes with a Surveillance app, which is not installed by default; it can be found in the App Market recommended section. In addition, after installing, it doesn't drop a shortcut on the Desktop or top taskbar, but you can "Send to Desktop" from the App Market listing for the app for a quick way to open it. Adding my Reolink POE doorbell camera was painless. TerraMaster doesn't appear to have a repository of preconfigured cameras; instead, the camera must be added using ONVIF or RTSP. No mobile Surveillance app TerraMaster still doesn't have a dedicated Surveillance app, although from searching online, Surveillance can be used and managed through the TNAS mobile app. I tried this with the updated TNAS mobile app beta in combination with TOS 7 and got a message that Surveillance was "Only accessible through web browser," so I reckon this must be limited to the stable versions of TOS 6 and the mobile app. More quirks In addition, whenever I minimized the Live View window in the browser Surveillance app, the feed appeared to switch to the Low-bandwidth stream, and there was no way to get the High-quality stream back. To get the High-quality stream back, I had to close Live View and then reopen it. Benchmarking A pretty cool feature of the TOS 7 is that it allows you to install directly to the NVMe M.2 SSD. In order to do that, you would have to leave out any HDDs during initialization, and even then, the system partitions are always written to two HDDs when they are eventually added. With three NVMe slots, this also gives an interesting scenario where you could build a TRAID storage Pool for installing all your apps and Docker on, and keep the third for SSD cache on the HDD pool. Limitless options! SATA PCIe 3.0 X1 A CrystalDiskMark test on a mapped network drive from within a Windows 11 25H2 PC (image above) connected over a 5 GbE hub was well within acceptable ranges. Although the read result on SATA was a little less than with the F4-425 Plus, for some reason, while writes were generally better. SATA PCIe 3.0 X1 I also ran the NAS Performance tester, which tests the link speed performance. As you can see, it pretty much maxes out the 5GbE connection. Of course, you can also opt to bond the two 5 GbE connections for a bit more umph, but I didn't do that. TOS 7, which, as of testing, is still in Beta, comes with an App Center that has a bunch of handy programs you can install right off the bat, such as Emby, Plex, Docker, as well as in-house Backup and Surveillance solutions. As you can imagine, any media streaming services you would want to host off the F4-425 Pro will work great, thanks to the Intel Core N350 CPU and its 16 GB of DDR5 memory. Accessing from mobile is only possible if Security Isolation Mode is disabled, which can put your NAS at risk from external sources, so there was no way to access it from the TNAS Mobile app. It's also quiet. I had this sat next to my computer on my work desk for the past week, and I did wonder if the noise I was accustomed to with NAS devices would annoy me, but all I could hear was a soft whirring of the rear fan (which was a little annoying) when the disks were not actively copying or reading data. Conclusion So what have I learned? Unfortunately, this release raises a few important questions and concerns that I feel haven't been adequately addressed. What I didn't like Our variant shipped with TOS 7 beta, and it's advised not to use it in a production environment. I feel that's a bit limiting on an $800 device. The mobile app is also still in beta and does not support some of the first-party apps, like Surveillance, and it still has quite a few bugs. I am a bit confused about the OpenClaw marketing along with the F4-425 Pro. I feel like that if it's going to be a main selling point, then offer official guidance on how to get started with it. TerraMaster recommends enabling SPC, but then markets the NAS for use with OpenClaw, which requires disabling SPC to be able to use it, opening up genuine security concerns for the NAS; and that's before you get into the security concerns of OpenClaw itself. Of course, the above issues won't be a problem if you decide to install something else on it, or even go back to the stable TOS 6. I wish TerraMaster had just given TOS 7 as opt-in rather than shipping with it. TOS 7 has been available as a preview since December 2025 (so well before my last TerraMaster review), and according to a thread on Reddit where a user shared a screenshot from the TerraMaster Facebook page, it is scheduled to launch today, June 23, but there's nothing about that in the TerraMaster news blog. My contact confirmed over email that TOS 7 exits beta today. The rubber feet also deserve a mention as they continue to be a problem, with them coming unstuck the moment you shift the F4-425 Pro anywhere on your desk. What I liked What it comes down to, though, aside from what I already mentioned, you are still getting a quality, affordable device here, so recommending it will depend on the individual's use case. If you're just looking for a relatively small NAS device to manage virtual machines on, backup your files, and take care of your home theater streaming, then it is a great device that will certainly futureproof you for some time. It provides good performance, takes up little space, and is, on the whole, very quiet. Four bays afford proper redundancy using TRAID or RAID 5, and you can even expand on storage capacity by adding the 2-bay D5, or 4-bay D8 Hybrid DAS over a USB 3.2 (10Gbps) link. Considering the 2024 releases were more about power, with the likes of an Intel Core i5-1235U high-end laptop CPU under the hood, I asked my contact last time if we could expect more of the same in higher-end models and was told: It makes a lot of sense to use Intel's N350 chip inside a NAS; it is more than capable of doing what the F4-425 Pro is intended for, media streaming and backup. The only downside is still the clear lack of community and even staff support on the official forums. In the past, I have had topics go unanswered for days, or there would be generic-type "we've noted this and passed it onto our developer team" type responses. Along with the other things I mentioned, it all ends up costing it a couple of points. If you are comfortable with the command line, Docker, and setting up TrueNAS or Unraid, you'll be fine. You can do great things with this hardware. In TOS, the apps are a bit lacking, and things don't always work as expected.\ AI NAS?! What has become clear to me this year is that we are going to start seeing all kinds of "AI NAS" come to market, and while that might be good for us consumers, be diligent and research these claims. Although the F4-425 Pro technically comes with AI, it is really using a cloud service that is externally sourced off-device through the third party OpenClaw app. My colleague did review a newcomer to the NAS space earlier this year, and it includes a local AI assistant inside the Zettlab D4 NAS, and they do not even use AI in the product name, check out Chris' review here. Where to buy and a discount coupon However, it does not change the fact that this is truly a great entry-level home media-class NAS that you can buy right now. TerraMaster is having a 20% off launch discount, plus you can also still apply our unique 10% off coupon on checkout, which only works on the official website. So here is a breakdown of the pricing that is only valid on the official TerraMaster website. TerraMaster F4-425 Pro (N350) + 20% discount + 10% coupon = $575.99 TerraMaster F4-425 Pro (N305) + 20% discount + 10% coupon = $503.99 TerraMaster F4-425 Pro (N350) + 20% discount + 10% coupon = £525.59 TerraMaster F4-425 Pro (N305) + 20% discount + 10% coupon = £460.79 Use NEOWIN coupon code during checkout for 10% discount Over on Amazon US and UK, the F4-425 Pro also gets a 20% launch discount, but here, the above 10% coupon cannot be applied. TerraMaster F4-425 Pro (N350) for $639.99 at Amazon US (was $799.99) TerraMaster F4-425 Pro (N305) for $559.99 at Amazon US (was $699.99) TerraMaster F4-425 Pro (N350) for £583.99 at Amazon UK (was £729.99) TerraMaster F4-425 Pro (N305) for £511.99 at Amazon UK (was £639.99) As an Amazon Associate, when you purchase through links on our site, we earn from qualifying purchases.
    • I used to use Google assistant, not on the phone i have now, but about 7 years ago, then I decided it did not really do anything for me. Because i had Echo units over the house I added Alexa to the phone to control stuff and that is how it is now. Not the new Alexa+, as that is not really available in the U.K yet apart from on new units and to be honest, not interested in it. I went though the stage years ago of using voice to do text and call people, quicker to do it using my hands. I had a muck about with Siri on my Mac when I first got it, but not having a microphone permanently plugged in makes it a pain. I know it can be used by text. Siri like Apple AI is disabled on my Mac and will stay disabled.
    • I have a TV, but it is not used for normal linear TV, only streaming and it is not a Samsung and the best bit is, I don;'t and never have had a Instagram account. The only thing I have to do with Meta is Faceache and I only keep that just for the messaging part.
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