MS comes down on Kol and his Vista visual style

[n30w1n]

They should not have allowed Stardock to add the functionality to WB5 its microsofts fault for letting stardock do it when stardock perposely did it to emulate the vista look. Not Kols fault and i will continue to distribute the theme regardless of his or microsofts wishes.

BTW for all you that dont know stardock has an extremely close releationship with microsoft, so much in fact that stardock is helping microsoft design the gui for windows vista (they also partialy helped with xp but not as much as they are now. They aperantly got the "ok" to include the glass effects in eb5 from microsoft who should and would have stoped them by now if it was not ok. So microsoft needs to target the company which is enabling the skinner. not the skinner himself.

That is stupid... It wouldn't be if Stardock really made WB5 to emulate Vista, like they really made ObjectDock to emulate the OSX dock (and should be sued for), but they did not make WB5 to emulate Vista. Alpha blended title bars are not a thing of the new, and there were certainly thousands of skins which had rounded corners that could have used anti aliasing before even Windows XP and OSX, which is the real reason Stardock did this. There are lots of things Stardock did wrong, this isn't one of them. It's KoL's fault and only his, for using making both WB and MSStyles themes that copy Microsoft's UI.

I just wonder what if WB5 had Kol's VistaXP included as an official theme (along with the 4-5 themes that came pre-installed )when WB5 came out. That would have been interesting

It would be interesting and if it were so, I'd wish upon Microsoft to take Stardock out :yes: But VistaXP was not included in WB5 default.

[Nexus-]

I just wonder what if WB5 had Kol's VistaXP included as an official theme (along with the 4-5 themes that came pre-installed )when WB5 came out. That would have been interesting

Stardocks owner screenshoted a theme called Arrow (a nocoff of Aero) it has the vista look, just wasnt as sexy as Kol's thats close enough in my book.

https://www.neowin.net/index.php?act=view&id=31613

screenshot down on the page : http://www.stardock.com/news/templa45.jpg

and also the first comment is incriminating enough:

#1 Posted by R3zZo on 04 Dec 2005 - 13:02 Reply to this comment

Look really good the Arrow (~Vista) skin.

thanks, i want buy this version.

the community knows its not Kol at fault but its really microsoft and their poor choice of people to attack. They should attack only stardock or no one.

Edited December 14, 2005 by divertom15

[Napalm Frog]

Just wondering, did something like this with all of those Whistler rip-offs? Ya know, back when Luna was "cool"?

[TheDogsBed]

so much in fact that stardock is helping microsoft design the gui for windows vista

I'm sure you may be right, but I'd like to see where this is documented. I can't help thinking that MS would have chosen a company such as The Skins Factory who they use for many other design areas and who have a proven track-record in design, as opposed to StarDock. They may create Windows based apps, but are far from what most would consider designers.

[AltecXP]

i never likes Luna, the last interface i like (apperance wise) frrm MS was Luna

[psybapunk]

i never likes Luna, the last interface i like (apperance wise) frrm MS was Luna

drinking on a tuesday night man?

[breakfastclub]

Kol rocks, all of his VS are way better then microsofts-ugly-styles ...

When Microsoft was clever they would give Kol a good job :yes:

[macro]

I don't see what the issue is, it's Microsoft's theme, they can stop people from copying it if they want to. Besides it's not like it's impossible to find the theme for those who want it.

[Leddy]

This is bull. Starock emulated the whole goddamn Windows Vista engine (visual). KoL emultated the theme, and just that.

Copyright dont matter as he made the images himself.

It does. I can take a photo of you, and post it on the net. You can sue me. I can also engineer such an image pixel-by-pixel, to look like you, and you can still sue me, because it is obviously an image of you.

I cheer and applaud Microsoft for having the balls to do this. Why the hell should he be allowed to rip off their artwork? He is copying Microsoft's work pixel per pixel. Maybe they feel like the Vsita GUI is a user experience that should only be available to those who purchased Vista. Maybe they don't want anyone to think he is asociated with them. Maybe their graphic artists are just plain prudes. But regardless of the reason, who the hell is anyone here to question this?

It's their copyrighted material. And if I was Apple, I would sue Stardock so bad for ObjectDock that the company wouldn't have any pockets to burn holes in. This isn't some God damn open source, GNU GPL, SourceForge hosted piece of freely distributable code and graphics. This is a copyrighted, patented, closed source, commercial product. And if you're going to create software trying to mimic it, prepare to have to take it down the second they feel you're bad for business, at their discretion.

To the original poster: good luck trying to stop using Microsoft products...

ObjectDock is freeware.

That's horrible.

But it's not like the visual style was harming them, they should be happy that people are interested in there Vista GUI, they come down on someone like KoL, but they forget about all the other crack/warez websites for Windows. (N)

Not good news to the customizing/visual styles community.

-kol will listen to MS. Crack sites can't be persued because- 1. they're not hosted in America, 2. because international governments don't co-operate, 3. because there's no money to be made from suing them.

[thagame]

i can see the headlines now. "Microsoft Goes Belly Up From A Boycott Done By A IT With Limited Clients"

LOL

[Nasapion]

I am actually stunned that they let it ride for as long as they did. I hope this sends a message out to all modders and skinners who's talent seems to start and end at simply emulating the work of others, that they now need to start really creating. I know that sounds harsh and won't win me friends but I've never been too concerned about that.

If it means that we may now see some originality put back into design, that's a good thing.

Head over to KoLs website. Hes talented; he doesnt just emulate peoples/companies ideas.

[macro]

You can't help but understand Micrsosoft's perspective here (as much as I otherwise detest them). It must take the shine off a product launch. Hell Vista isn't released yet and, in part thanks to Kol and others who jump on the bandwagon, I'm already sick to death of seeing it. I can't believe I'm the only one.

How does it take the shine off the product launch? What percentage of people do you think will have seen the theme before Vista comes out? The hardcore Windows beta community is a small percentage and not the market share that makes or breaks a Windows product...

[Gersson]

I think that the Vista look is the only thing MS has as a selling point next gen to the general public. It would be nice if this dirty secret were made public. Seriosuly MS needs to go down and get some Intel vs AMD type competition. (Yes I know of linux but game publishers largely ignore it).

[TheDogsBed]

Head over to KoLs website. Hes talented; he doesnt just emulate peoples/companies ideas.

Now I know you are kidding me, right? Most of his collection is based on the works of others. He's a "porter" yes, but not a designer. Porting is no rocket science. Most of the work and real talent has already been done by others. I have absolutely no respect for it.

[Jeremy1]

I think that the Vista look is the only thing MS has as a selling point next gen to the general public.

I think that you're wrong.

[HaTeTaTeLLyA]

What a bunch of bullsh*t! :angry:

I thought Apple was the only company around that would complain when people would compliment there work by creating a visual style that shows of some of finer aspects of the new operating system. Microsoft shouldn't look at KoL's work as a threat; they should see this in a positive light. Having KoL create the Vista XP Visual Style, and WindowBlinds, KoL is opening the door for current XP users to get excited about the interface improvements that are being developed in Windows Vista. Think of KoL like a walking Vista billboard.

It's not like KoL is out trying to program his own version of Vista on Windows XP. He's not out trying to build the live searching feature and other enhancements within the start menu. All he is doing is recreating the visual experience that an XP user could experience in Vista when it is released.

Microsoft's decision to send KoL a 'nice' letter is still a bad PR move. I don't care if it was a threat or if it was a "pretty please will you remove" letter.

[KoL Veteran]

Now I know you are kidding me, right? Most of his collection is based on the works of others. He's a "porter" yes, but not a designer. Porting is no rocket science. Most of the work and real talent has already been done by others. I have absolutely no respect for it.

Thank God other people dont think the same way you think and have contacted me to create skins and icons for their companies.

I knew what I was facing when I created VistaXP. Yes, my theme use copyright material but it also have graphics made from scratch. I said it before they send me the letter, I wouldnt have any problem if they ask me to take the skin now. I really didnt thought they were going to contacted me but they did and I repect their wishes. What I think is not fair is that they only took down just one skin when you can find tons of other Vista based skin using the same resources that I used on the net.

Edited December 14, 2005 by KoL

[golazo]

maybe you aren't the only one KoL

[YBG]

They did the same thing to Enhanced Labs, and it didn't even look that much like Longhorn.

Besides, I'm sure that everyone who wanted it grabbed it by now. As much as I don't like that Microsoft made him take the skin down, he is copying a style from an officially unreleased OS. That and also I think MS (That's right, not M$) was probably kinda banking on it like someone else said in this thread, they want users to not be so familiar with it when it comes out. They don't worry about those crappy copies because they know no one uses them. So many people downloaded KoL's port it's ridiculous. If he sold that theme he would be laughing on his way to the bank.

Buuuut ya, it's expected that MS would shut this down. After all, it is from an unreleased OS.

[Miran]

It does. I can take a photo of you, and post it on the net. You can sue me. I can also engineer such an image pixel-by-pixel, to look like you, and you can still sue me, because it is obviously an image of you.

Depends if the picture is taken in a public place.

[kaffra]

the community likes to complain if some or part of their themes are copied by other skinners, how diffrent is it to MS protecting their interests.

[n30w1n]

ObjectDock is freeware.

So what? First of all there is a pay version of ObjectDock that has extra features but capitalizes on Apple's dock just as much as the free version. Secondly, even if it were freeware, it doesn't give Stardock the excuse to copy Apple's intellectual property.

What a bunch of bullsh*t! :angry::

I thought Apple was the only company around that would complain when people would compliment there work by creating a visual style that shows of some of finer aspects of the new operating system. Microsoft shouldn't look at KoL's work as a threat; they should see this in a positive light. Having KoL create the Vista XP Visual Style, and WindowBlinds, KoL is opening the door for current XP users to get excited about the interface improvements that are being developed in Windows Vista. Think of KoL like a walking Vista billboard.

It's not like KoL is out trying to program his own version of Vista on Windows XP. He's not out trying to build the live searching feature and other enhancements within the start menu. All he is doing is recreating the visual experience that an XP user could experience in Vista when it is released.

Microsoft's decision to send KoL a 'nice' letter is still a bad PR move. I don't care if it was a threat or if it was a "pretty please will you remove" letter.

That's the biggest load of BS I've ever heard... It's not a "compliment" when someone steals your work and ports it to another system, where you may not want to make it available. And no one is going to get "excited about Windows Vista by being opened this door in Windows XP." If anything, it will only drive away some of the 99% of computer users who don't know anything beyond the interface, and who would get excited about Vista purely because of the pretty interface. KoL is not a "walking Vista billboard", he's a walking "You can get it for free without Vista" board. Obviously Microsoft feels this way, and they have every damn right considering THEY CREATED THIS CONTENT.

And that's right, KoL is not out creating his own code or graphics, that is the problem. If it was his own GUI, Microsoft wouldn't care whether it looked better than Windows or not. That is proven with the hundreds of ORIGINAL skins that currently look better than Windows XP, but Microsoft doesn't care about. KoL is copying Microsoft's graphics pixel per pixel.

[TheDogsBed]

Thank God other people dont think the same way you think and have contacted me to create skins and icons for their companies.

I'm sure others do. It just happens that I'm gobby enough to say it. Just to be sure of my view, I just took yet another look at your list of visual styles on your site. The vast majority are based on the works of others. True or false? Unless I'm missing something, it's undeniably true.

My point being that you can't expect to rip, sorry, port the works of others without a bumpy ride. It's not you per se that irritates me, rather the fact that a great many so called "designers" now confuse copying the works of others with design. There's no imagination left, no spark of creativity. It's just the same old rubbish being churned out day after day.

You just happen to be the amongst the most well-known of them. (And no, that's really not an accolade to be proud of.) Nothing personal. I stand by my original comment that I hope others learn from this, and actually start designing again and not just robbing each other!

Edited December 14, 2005 by SniperX

[Matt T]

Apple had all Aqua-like themes removed from the internet a few years ago prior to OS X being released. Now they really don't care. I would expect MS to do nothing less than protect an unreleased product.

:yes:

Agreed, it would be nice to see a theme that doesn't look like a half-a** version of OS X or Vista every twenty minutes. Most real "artists" don't spend their waking lives doing copies of the Mona Lisa.

:yes:

I can understand why Microsoft did this; I would do the same thing under their circumstances. It's not like this is a punch in the stomach for KoL - his other work is fantastic, whether or not it's a port; he's not going to crawl into a hole and die because Microsoft told him to stop porting their VS.

And good luck with that "never buying any Microsoft products again" thing, but I doubt you'll do it. Everybody uses Microsoft products - I mean, name one business that can survive without Office. I'll sure you'll get over this in a few days.

[KeR]

I say screw them...life goes on.