MS comes down on Kol and his Vista visual style

[CrisCr0ss]

you guys must understand... that what they did wasnt wrong. Hey I love VistaXp and KoL theme I mean check my sig, but the reason for it being taken off was the new startmen which wasnt in the public release which microsoft had released and that is why they requested it to be removed. It wasnt until ver 3.1 that they blocked it, check the new startmenu.

[Jeremy1]

No, I haven't played Halo on the Xbox.

Then you played it on the PC. That would require Windows, aside from the fact that Halo is a Microsoft product itself.

And don't even try and say you've never played Halo. You wouldn't have the Master Chief as your avatar if that were the case.

[Tungsten T]

you guys must understand... that what they did wasnt wrong. Hey I love VistaXp and KoL theme I mean check my sig, but the reason for it being taken off was the new startmen which wasnt in the public release which microsoft had released and that is why they requested it to be removed. It wasnt until ver 3.1 that they blocked it, check the new startmenu.

Son, Ur gunna get hit wit a warn

[Kr0z]

Hang on. Someone uses microsoft materials - which are ?.

Get's told to remove the visual style.

That's fair.

Kol didn't "make" the visual style, it was just copied from the Windows Vista product.

So I don't really understand why a company protecting it's ideas and design is seen as the evil one here?! :unsure::

Actually what's really immature is people threatening not to buy Microsoft software anymore because of all this. Sheesh.

[Slimy]

You took this thing too far man. It's not as if MS sued Kol or something :p Stop using ms' products because they asked someone to remove a single visual style and THEY AGREED TO DO IT? What if he said no? Would you also boycott ms? There is not much logic in the follow up to your actions.

[TheWahbinator]

I'll keep to my word:

I'll only blame KoL if he actually ripped parts of the skin, even one tiny little bitmap, from any Aero.msstyles distributed with a Windows Vista Beta (such as the Start Menu button in the WindowBlinds theme). Otherwise, I don't see this as a valid reason for a C&D for the theme because this would've been the creator's original work, basing it off of the skin and not actually trying to depict it in any way, which I may contradict as to say that was its original purpose.

[Jeremy1]

I don't see this as a valid reason for a C&D for the theme because this would've been the creator's original work

So if I get a book, and instead of photocopying the pages, I typed them all out, that would be fine? I could put my "original" book up on the Internet for anyone to have? You don't see anything wrong with that?

[Slimy]

The point is that Ms asked nicely and Kol agreed to their request, not demands, request. If he decided that their reasons are enough, so should we, you, neowin as a community.

[DarkZeus]

I have made a petition to stop the illegal spread of this theme. Check it out here.

[Bubbabyte]

I have made a petition to stop the illegal spread of this theme. Check it out here.

haha.. that just made my night..lol

[Buzz99]

I have made a petition to stop the illegal spread of this theme. Check it out here.

So you're John Smith....

[DarkZeus]

Yes, stupid companies made me famous by making my name the example for a lot of stuff.

[Badtz-Maru]

Is KoL allowed to modify his theme so it won't include any copyrighted material? Like changing the Windows Logo.

[sn00pie]

I have made a petition to stop the illegal spread of this theme. Check it out here.

Hahaha! :rofl:

[matt0]

I just read the front news post, and everyones a little " :rolleyes: " because it's been 5 months since he first released. I seriously doubt theyve known about the skin for 5 months, not that it really matters anyway. Remember when that guy was selling themes on EBAY? How long do you think he was doing it before you all caught him. What if he had said "but I've been doing this for months..."

Would you say "oh...ok then"? Don't think so.

[KoL Veteran]

I just read the front news post, and everyones a little " :rolleyes: " because it's been 5 months since he first released. I seriously doubt theyve known about the skin for 5 months, not that it really matters anyway. Remember when that guy was selling themes on EBAY? How long do you think he was doing it before you all caught him. What if he had said "but I've been doing this for months..."

Would you say "oh...ok then"? Don't think so.

They knew about the theme even when the theme was Longhorn "5203". They asked Frogboy to remove the theme from WinCustomize a while ago (like the first month that I released the theme) Frogboy did it. But Microsoft never contacted me, deviatnART or any other site that I uploaded the theme. Frogboy put back the theme online because the issue is selective enforcement. They can’t just pick on a skin or a site simply because they casually learned about it. In November happened the same think but in December I got the e-mail from them. They wait after 5 month to take down the skin and they knew about it.

These ports are like fan art. Like all fan art you see out, Disney, Harry Potter, Spiderman etc. People even sell copyright material, trademarks or trade dress. Every violation of intellectual property is wrong but contrary to small guys like me big companies don’t have anything to lose. That's even free promotion to their products. Contrary to that small guys have everything to lose. Let’s say someone create a wallpaper or an icon set and them another guy rip it. No one will know that that work is from another guy, just the people that he shares his work.

Those Apple or Microsoft ports do more good than harm to their companies. A lot of people started using Mac port and a lot of them are now Mac user, including me.

I still say that they took my skin down because the popularity and they notice the skin. If the skin wasn’t that popular the skin would be online on WinCustomize, deviatnART and GetSkinned.

I bet all of you that Microsoft are not going to do anything to all Vista skins out there. Here's a quick list of some of the skin that I found only on deviantART and WinCustomize. In some minutes I found all those themes and there are a lot more all over the net.

http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/25958655/

http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/25906402/

http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/25272836/

http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/25005300/

http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/25495627/

http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/24533120/

http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/24533120/

http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/24304388/

http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/22445663/

http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/22150948/

http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/21237264/

http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/21229873/

http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/21101461/

http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/20903764/

http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/20664808/

http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/20604210/

http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/19519681/

http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/25937446/

http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/23303209/

http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/23049068/

http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/22694060/

http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/22286431/

http://www.wincustomize.com/ViewSkin.aspx?...ID=5456&LibID=1

http://www.wincustomize.com/ViewSkin.aspx?...ID=5440&LibID=1

http://www.wincustomize.com/ViewSkin.aspx?...ID=5347&LibID=1

http://www.wincustomize.com/ViewSkin.aspx?...ID=5311&LibID=1

http://www.wincustomize.com/ViewSkin.aspx?...ID=5383&LibID=1

http://www.wincustomize.com/ViewSkin.aspx?...ID=5314&LibID=1

http://www.wincustomize.com/ViewSkin.aspx?...ID=5297&LibID=1

Companies don’t care about it. Yes Apple took some two Aqua themes some years ago, they were popular themes back then but have they done anything to take down all the Aqua skin that are now online??? NO. Apple took down Yz Dock because it was popular. What happen with Objecdesktop, Mobydock??? They were available at the same time Yz Dock was. They didn’t take those down. Now we have a lot of themes and docks that are more similar to the OSX interface that those that Apple took down some years ago and are they doing somthing to protect their IP, NO. Big companies don’t care.

Edited December 15, 2005 by KoL

[daydream nation]

It's so pointless that they ask to remove VistaXP, yet Stardock is free to distribute the Arrow skin which also copies Windows Vista (albeit an inferior clone than the one by KoL). Also the real shocker in this thread to me is that Stardock are co-developing the Vista UI. With their reputation for ugly bloated interfaces I sure hope Vista will include a Windows Classic look. :p

[matt0]

They knew about the theme even when the theme was Longhorn "5203". They asked Frogboy to remove the theme from WinCustomize a while ago (like the first month that I released the theme) Frogboy did it. But Microsoft never contacted me, deviatnART or any other site that I uploaded the theme. Frogboy put back the theme online because the issue is selective enforcement. They can?t just pick on a skin or a site simply because they casually learned about it. In November happened the same think but in December I got the e-mail from them. They wait after 5 month to take down the skin and they knew about it.

These ports are like fan art. Like all fan art you see out, Disney, Harry Potter, Spiderman etc. People even sell copyright material, trademarks or trade dress. Every violation of intellectual property is wrong but contrary to small guys like me big companies don?t have anything to lose. That's even free promotion to their products. Contrary to that small guys have everything to lose. Let?s say someone create a wallpaper or an icon set and them another guy rip it. No one will know that that work is from another guy, just the people that he shares his work.

Those Apple or Microsoft ports do more good than harm to their companies. A lot of people started using Mac port and a lot of them are now Mac user, including me.

I still say that they took my skin down because the popularity and they notice the skin. If the skin wasn?t that popular the skin would be online on WinCustomize, deviatnART and GetSkinned.

I bet all of you that Microsoft are not going to do anything to all Vista skins out there. Here's a quick list of some of the skin that I found only on deviantART and WinCustomize. In some minutes I found all those themes and there are a lot more all over the net.

Companies don?t care about it. Yes Apple took some two Aqua themes some years ago, they were popular themes back then but have they done anything to take down all the Aqua skin that are now online??? NO. Apple took down Yz Dock because it was popular. What happen with Objecdesktop, Mobydock??? They were available at the same time Yz Dock was. They didn?t take those down. Now we have a lot of themes and docks that are more similar to the OSX interface that those that Apple took down some years ago and are they doing somthing to protect their IP, NO. Big companies don?t care.

I know what you're saying, and I agree to an extent, but you can't be bitter about your skin getting picked on 'cos it was popular. Maybe they're using yours as an example, send the message out that they want these skins gone, or maybe there was something about yours that was too close the the original for comfort. Or maybe they really don't know about those other skins, customization really isn't a popular thing on the net. The only thing you can really do is email MS back and give them those same links, or just let it go.

Whatever the reason, they want it down. When they first requested it all those months ago, frogboy should have kept it down. Just because MS doesn't track down every other place it was uploaded, or contact you specifically (maybe they thought the skin was wincustomize's property?) doesn't mean that it's ok to ignore their request and carry on. You did anyway, and you brought out a great skin. It's a shame that its really gone, but you can't really blame MS or anyone else. Especially since they requested it pulled down months ago, that's really not a defense.

I feel your pain, VS's are hard work, and it's all gone down the ****ter because some big company said "Oh no." but you gotta move on, and accept some degree of responsibility. It was a port without permission, no different than a guy porting your Kuantam skin or whatever to OSX and not telling you about it. I know you get that, and you say you don't have an issue with it, but then you go on to talk about fanart/big companies/little men. Just let it go.

[vip]

I've got loads of respect for KoL but I think I'm going to be siding with Microsoft on this one. It's no different than the skinning community - wouldn't you be ****ed if you're paying people to make this design specifically to be a "new thing" that's not even publicly available yet, and it gets ported to the PC? Although he made the graphics completely from scratch, it doesn't matter, because esentially it's a clone of the Vista GUI.

Nothin' against ya KoL, you did a great job with it, but I believe Microsoft had every right to do this..

Saying that, does that mean we as mac users can serve these letters for our themes that we make, and before released windows users are porting and distributing it without permission also??

[Googintosh]

My arse kinda looks like bill gates. I wonder who would sue who first?!

:laugh: :rofl:

[c242]

Also the real shocker in this thread to me is that Stardock are co-developing the Vista UI. With their reputation for ugly bloated interfaces I sure hope Vista will include a Windows Classic look. :p

I know You didn't notice, but it is not Stardock doing skins You dislike. They do the software. And of course the 1269th Tiger or classic clone is so much more inventive than the skins that windowblinda authors invented themselves. If You want to see a really ugly interface go open Your StyleXP.

[matt0]

Saying that, does that mean we as mac users can serve these letters for our themes that we make, and before released windows users are porting and distributing it without permission also??

Yes. :)

[KoL Veteran]

I know what you're saying, and I agree to an extent, but you can't be bitter about your skin getting picked on 'cos it was popular. Maybe they're using yours as an example, send the message out that they want these skins gone, or maybe there was something about yours that was too close the the original for comfort. Or maybe they really don't know about those other skins, customization really isn't a popular thing on the net. The only thing you can really do is email MS back and give them those same links, or just let it go.

Whatever the reason, they want it down. When they first requested it all those months ago, frogboy should have kept it down. Just because MS doesn't track down every other place it was uploaded, or contact you specifically (maybe they thought the skin was wincustomize's property?) doesn't mean that it's ok to ignore their request and carry on. You did anyway, and you brought out a great skin. It's a shame that its really gone, but you can't really blame MS or anyone else. Especially since they requested it pulled down months ago, that's really not a defense.

I feel your pain, VS's are hard work, and it's all gone down the ****ter because some big company said "Oh no." but you gotta move on, and accept some degree of responsibility. It was a port without permission, no different than a guy porting your Kuantam skin or whatever to OSX and not telling you about it. I know you get that, and you say you don't have an issue with it, but then you go on to talk about fanart/big companies/little men. Just let it go.

Microsoft have done that to Stardock and WinCustomize in the past several times and Frogoboy wasnt going to allow that again. That's why he put the skin back.

I talk about fanart/big companies/little men like you say becasue I want. That's my opinion and I want to share it with everyone.

[TheDogsBed]

Also the real shocker in this thread to me is that Stardock are co-developing the Vista UI.

Of which I am still waiting for documented evidence of. I asked for some earlier in the thread, none came forth, and nor can I find any on the web. I just find it too hard to believe, given that there are companies who are far superior and much more well known for Interface design. To my knowledge Stardock don't have any Interface Design credentials, though I could be wrong on that.

Every violation of intellectual property is wrong but contrary to small guys like me big companies don’t have anything to lose.

That is such a wrong statement, on so many different levels.

Of course they have things to lose. When I make a design, I, as the author, own the distribution rights for it. I and I alone, decide where, when, and how it can be distributed. For a large company, the ramifications of this must be huge. You are, like it or not, stealing their rights from them. Sorry to get personal here for a moment but, I know some see you as a design God who should praised, but I see you as little more than a common thief of other people's work, creativity, ideas, and efforts. That, to me, is shameful, not something to be celebrated. This action by MS is long overdue in my opinion. Moreso as, as has already been stated by others, if someone did it to you, you would be crying foul. As would those who seem to be blindly defending you now. You can't have it both ways. It's either wrong, in which case it's as wrong for you to do it as it is for anyone who steals your work, or it's right, in which case, you have just signed away any rights to pursue copyright infringements of any future 'original' work you might create. So really, which is it?

The fact that they picked on you and not the next person is completely and utterly immaterial to anything that defines the right or wrong of this whole affair. That's just bad-luck on your part.

Edited December 15, 2005 by SniperX

[Digital.K]

KoL you are by far one of the best, if not THE best, skinner out there. What Gates & Co. should do is get you to Redmond and put you to work. HELLO MICROSOFT are you reading this???? Give him a job and let him do some real magic with Windows, don't squash talent , please!