Xbox-scene finds reason why some Xbox 360's overheat

[AJerman]

This isn't some "protective layer" that was forgotten and left on there, it was meant to be there. Anyone who has worked with hardware enough has seen certain heatsinks come this way. Now, that said, they don't work as well as, say, AS5 does, but no manufacturer uses AS5. This is just the cheap solution that one of the plants decided to use.

[S7R1K3R]

This isn't some "protective layer" that was forgotten and left on there, it was meant to be there. Anyone who has worked with hardware enough has seen certain heatsinks come this way. Now, that said, they don't work as well as, say, AS5 does, but no manufacturer uses AS5. This is just the cheap solution that one of the plants decided to use.

exactly

[BroChaos Veteran]

that doesn't make sense though...thermally. i thought when you have paste, you need direct contact between the two parts? this foil layer will most likely increase the distance, and probably create air pockets, both of which will reduce heat transfer.

[giga Veteran]

Microsoft sent over an official response to the claim by a German blogger that forgot foil was the reason behind the Xbox 360 overheating problems.

The video and photos posted by German blog GameStore24.de show thermal interface pads that are installed per specification. This foil eliminates the need of a protective liner, which simplifies the final assembly process and minimizes shipping concerns and contamination issues.

Customers should know that opening the Xbox 360 case voids the warranty. If your console is malfunctioning, call Xbox customer support. They can diagnose whether the system is malfunctioning, and will arrange for repair/replacement if necessary.

There is no systemic issue with Xbox 360. Any customer inquires are being handled on a case-by-case basis. The return rate is below the CE industry average of 3-5%. Of the total number of Xbox 360 systems already in the field, the calls we?ve received represent a very small fraction. Even so, we?re doing everything we can to take care of these customers quickly so they can get back to enjoying their new consoles.

I suppose this means the problems the 360 has had can not be traced to a single issue. Kinda weird.

They also, and more importantly, remind that if you go poking about inside your 360 the warranty will be void. Consider yourself warned.

http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/microsoft/mso...ideo-159734.php

[NightmarE D]

Why is it not M$' fault? They picked the manufacturer after all.

They might have picked that manufacturer, but they didn't really have control on how the part was made. Same thing that happened with the original xbox. Even though some say it's not the cord with the original and that the real problem was inside the original xbox.

[ludeboy12]

i find it hard to believe that the return rate due to malfuction is below the industry average of 3-5%.

i have 3 friends that have all had thier 360s die. That seems extremely high considering me and all my firends have all had every other console and until now none of us ever had any problems w/ any of them. And thats counting (N64s, Gamecubes, PS, PS2, Xbox)

so i find it hard to believe that this isnt a bigger issue. but whatever i have yet to buy one so this doesnt really affect me....

[BroChaos Veteran]

you realize your sample space is 3 people. 3.

if you flip a coin 4 times, and it's heads every time, the next time you flip it, what are the chances it'll be tails?

[ludeboy12]

my sampe is not 3....that is just how many actually have had dead 360s. Currently 11 of my friend both back home and here in college have 360s and of the 11 of them 3 had thiers die. So the way i see it thats just under 30% failure rate in my sample.

considering all these were bought at various times from launch till 2 weeks ago and from all different areas i would have to guess that theres NO way that they were all from a bad batch. And considering its not just my circle of friends having problems I would have to say that its not just dumb luck that im the only one that knows a couple people w/ dead 360s.

Of course i completely uderstand your quarter deal....i sorta figured somone would say somethign like that....but theres just no way the failure rate is only 3-5% If it was that low i seriously doubt there would be so much talk about it online.

[S7R1K3R]

They have sold well over a million console wordwide and only a couple of sites are reporting this kind of thing. It is about 3-5% if it were any bigger than that it would make local or even headline news. Its not as bad as people make it out to be because MS is replaceing them. Did sony replace the psps that had that defective button. No. So dont go on this ms bashin because u think they have a monopoly especially when you are using their os.

[Pc_Madness]

i find it hard to believe that the return rate due to malfuction is below the industry average of 3-5%.

Yeah, I agree, it doesn't seem right.

[ludeboy12]

They have sold well over a million console wordwide and only a couple of sites are reporting this kind of thing. It is about 3-5% if it were any bigger than that it would make local or even headline news. Its not as bad as people make it out to be because MS is replaceing them. Did sony replace the psps that had that defective button. No. So dont go on this ms bashin because u think they have a monopoly especially when you are using their os.

Im definitly not bashing M$ here....nor do i have any animostity towards them. Im completely happy here.

I was just saying given the numbers from MY SAMPLE i find it hard to be that low....thats all. Damn no need to freak out thinking im bashing them for saying somethign like that.

but whatever i'll stop there...i wouldnt want people to think i came here just to "BASH" or "TROLL" just because i felt the need to post about what i've personally seen so far....

[yankee lion]

Im definitly not bashing M$ here....nor do i have any animostity towards them. Im completely happy here.

I was just saying given the numbers from MY SAMPLE i find it hard to be that low....thats all. Damn no need to freak out thinking im bashing them for saying somethign like that.

but whatever i'll stop there...i wouldnt want people to think i came here just to "BASH" or "TROLL" just because i felt the need to post about what i've personally seen so far....

I agree with you man. S7R1K3R, please cool off a bit, the guy was just expressing his opinion. He's got like 5 MS Windows tags in his sig. :laugh:

Ontopic: This kind of stuff happens when you're shoving consoles into retails as fast as you can. MS just needs to be more selective of their manufacturers in the future.

[Pc_Madness]

Microsoft sent over an official response to the claim by a German blogger that forgot foil was the reason behind the Xbox 360 overheating problems:

The video and photos posted by German blog GameStore24.de show thermal interface pads that are installed per specification. This foil eliminates the need of a protective liner, which simplifies the final assembly process and minimizes shipping concerns and contamination issues. Customers should know that opening the Xbox 360 case voids the warranty. If your console is malfunctioning, call Xbox customer support. They can diagnose whether the system is malfunctioning, and will arrange for repair/replacement if necessary.

There is no systemic issue with Xbox 360. Any customer inquires are being handled on a case-by-case basis. The return rate is below the CE industry average of 3-5%. Of the total number of Xbox 360 systems already in the field, the calls we've received represent a very small fraction. Even so, we're doing everything we can to take care of these customers quickly so they can get back to enjoying their new consoles.

No idea as to where the quote is from I'm afraid :(

[spenser.d]

The thing that's happening here is called Observational Bias. You only hear what you want to hear. I'm not saying anything against you, since in this case, its really easy to do. Yes, it seems like 3-5% may be low, but they've sold about 2 million consoles. Now 3-5% of that is 60000 to 100000 consoles. That happens to be a lot on any scale. More than they want it to be, but still a small amount in the grand scheme of things. That would explain why 3/11 in your area could easily have problems and the problem size still be so small.

I only have one problem with my 360. It randomly freezes during Halo 2 playing. Not sure why. Hell, it may even be because the disc is so scratchy, and it doesnt even happen all the time. But it doesn't happen enough that I can't deal with it. It has had absolutely no problems with any 360 game. I think I'm getting Burnout Revenge 360 next.

-Spenser

I agree with you man. S7R1K3R, please cool off a bit, the guy was just expressing his opinion. He's got like 5 MS Windows tags in his sig. :laugh:

Ontopic: This kind of stuff happens when you're shoving consoles into retails as fast as you can. MS just needs to be more selective of their manufacturers in the future.

uh, more selective?...they're just getting their 3rd manufacturer online right now...that's why they say in a few weeks, you should just be able to walk into a store and buy one finally (at least in the US, other countries dont seem to have this problem)

seems pretty selective to me

-Spenser

[Deactivated Account]

its Rushed..

I'm not a PS Fanboy but i think this will be one good reasion why the PS3 will be better because its not being Rushed.

[Gfunk4life]

its Rushed..

I'm not a PS Fanboy but i think this will be one good reasion why the PS3 will be better because its not being Rushed.

do you know 100% that it was rushed, i would like to know how many people know its rushed, all we know is that it came out when it did, not if it was rushed or if it wasnt. and how do we know that the PS3 isnt being rushed . i read at a fourm that the PS3 didnt have a dev. kit (in nov. i think so its old) when MS had shipped the xbox360 dev kit(im not saying its true but someone did put that at a diff fourm)im just say you dont know if it was rushed you only think(you might be right).

_________________________________________

that is weak, my mom use to work a late shift at a froster farm chicken line and she told me that its sometimes it was hard to say a wake in the later shift. so this could be just that some people just working to long for Overtime. at some point someone will miss up.

[stezo2k]

its Rushed..

I'm not a PS Fanboy but i think this will be one good reasion why the PS3 will be better because its not being Rushed.

and the PS2 didn't have any problems when that was launched? search DRE error on google, there is another one too which i cant remember

[mail]

I've had problems with the 360 crashing in DOA 4 when i open xbox guide and it just gets stuck, I just have to restart .. game problem.. or hardware ?

[yankee lion]

uh, more selective?...they're just getting their 3rd manufacturer online right now...that's why they say in a few weeks, you should just be able to walk into a store and buy one finally (at least in the US, other countries dont seem to have this problem)

seems pretty selective to me

-Spenser

They must suck at choosing reliable manufacturers if this kind of thing persists. I'm just saying they need to pick better manufacturers. No doubt they are going the cheap route (like everyone) and mass producing these in China like crazy.

[giga Veteran]

I've had problems with the 360 crashing in DOA 4 when i open xbox guide and it just gets stuck, I just have to restart .. game problem.. or hardware ?

Looks to be a software problem really. You have all the updates for the dashboard?

DOA4 hasn't crashed my 360.

[AJerman]

that doesn't make sense though...thermally. i thought when you have paste, you need direct contact between the two parts? this foil layer will most likely increase the distance, and probably create air pockets, both of which will reduce heat transfer.

That does actually make sense. Metals are the best at transfering heat, hence why we use a heatsink. We need thermal paste because the bottom of the heatsink, and the top of the CPU are solid and the thermal pastes helps fill in any tiny little gaps you may have from an uneven heatsink, or a non-perfect surface on the bottom of the heatsink (or on the CPU for that matter). This metal layer they have is not solid metal like the heatsink, rather it's a very thin flexible layer that is allowed to contour to the CPU/GPU that it's making contact with (as evident by the impression of the GPU core and DRAM in the pictures and videos). So yes, this is a very valid solution to cooling.

NOW, that said, as I said, it's obviously not as good as using a good quality thermal paste, however it's easier and likely cheaper (cheaper because it's not as high of quality as something like AS5, and because it's easier to keep on the heatsink). A good thermal paste would be much better at getting into the tiny places to provide that extra contact and better cooling, plus, if you use a high quality paste like Arctic Silver, the silver is much better at transfering heat.

Consider this though. Lets say they did use a softer paste such as AS5. So all the heatsinks are manufacturered, and then they need the paste added to them. How should we do it? If the paste is added right then, then there is a good likelyhood that it will get smeared somehow before being put on, it could be put on off center, etc. Are you going to add it directly onto the GPU before putting the heatsink on? How are you going to get it on there perfect? Not too much, not too little, in just the right place? So you see, while SAYING that using a better place sounds nice and all, the likelyhood of issues caused by using a good paste would be even more than if they use a pad which stays in place and can't be messed up before the heatsink is set in place.

Hope that helps you see why so many companies use a pad rather than a high quality paste other than the cost concern.

[Andrew Lyle Global Moderator]

Microsoft is somewhat responsible.. but the manufacturers are the ones who messed up ultamitely.

Anybody know how many systems (percent %) are affected by this?

This problem isn't confirmed by microsoft as the root cause is it?

[mail]

Looks to be a software problem really. You have all the updates for the dashboard?

DOA4 hasn't crashed my 360.

Yes the screen just got stuck haven't had it lately though ..

[sfalcon]

For your consumption:

http://digg.com/gaming/XBOX_360:_Turns_out..._was_Deliberate

[glazzz]

*cough* WOLF! *cough* :pinch: