Why Linux is SO hard...

[quadz0]

Well, i've been using windows since 1996 i think. i just got linux. not as hard to run as i thought it would be, but it's hard in other ways, like remembering all of the commands, once you know most of them, its pretty easy.

[REM2000]

Yes it's pointless because Linux is not Windows. Why can't people understand this simple fact. Say it out loud "LINUX IS NOT WINDOWS" Linux is not Windows and it never will be. To me Linux is way more than Windows can ever be. Maybe you prefer Windows and that's just great. No one is forcing you to replace your favorite OS. To each his own.

I think everyone knows that Linux is not windows which is not Mac OS X. However they all do share the common attribute that they are all Desktop OS's.

You are right that Linux is not windows and will never be, just like linux is not Mac OS X and will never be. However the author is not saying that, he's saying that his experience of using Linux as a desktop OS has been a bit of a trial.

The windows mind set is hard to over come when using different OS's, moving from Windows to Mac OS X requires a different mindset and Mac OS X does a lot for you.

I think the main difference or the hardest thing to change mind sets regarding linux is the repositry. Where as windows users are used to going to a web site / store and obtaining there software to install, with linux you go to a central library, it just takes a little getting used to. As for the driver issue, from some of the projects which are going on out there, and companies like novel etc.. hopefully there will be a better way of downloading and installing drivers, as you would have to admit that the driver situation is a PITA unless the distro has already picked up your drivers, perhaps a rewrite of the X window system is needed a lot sooner than later to enable desktop linux to fly.

[»X«]

Linux and its various distro's all remind me of the way computers used to be. Complicated.

Reminds me of the dos days where you had to type alot of things in to get a game to run with conventional memory and what not. It seems like we are going back in time with the commands we need to enter to get things working. For all xp's faults its damn easier to use than linux out the box. Ive tried to switch to linux distro's many times, but always having the same problems. Once i install it, i need to get firefox, which needs more commands, then an mp3 player, but they are all crap and then theres my ipod. So i gave up. Back to xp, done in about a minute. If you love linux, fair play, but I wont be using it anymore.

[MiG-]

Many of the people who tried XP x64 gave up with driver problems too.

Basically, i've got a dual boot system running at the mo, Windows XP Media Center and Suse 10.0 Final x86_64. now ive tried the 64bit version of windows, and its 10x better than the linux equivalant. the lack of 64-bit programs for 64-bit linux is silly, and even in the release notes it says how 3d-acceleration is near to impossible to accomplish. :no:

things like XGL are amazing, and that is the first step into good virtulaision. i thought, hey, i try it, but the things you have to do to even get it working is untrue.

Linux now has a fancy GUI, but everyway of installation, and configuration of the OS is done and preffered at the command line. That defeats the use of the GUI, as it has no power, and most Linux users always ramble on about the command line.

Linux and its various distro's all remind me of the way computers used to be. Complicated.

Reminds me of the dos days where you had to type alot of things in to get a game to run with conventional memory and what not. It seems like we are going back in time with the commands we need to enter to get things working. For all xp's faults its damn easier to use than linux out the box. Ive tried to switch to linux distro's many times, but always having the same problems. Once i install it, i need to get firefox, which needs more commands, then an mp3 player, but they are all crap and then theres my ipod. So i gave up. Back to xp, done in about a minute. If you love linux, fair play, but I wont be using it anymore.

Very true, but for me, the syntax of the stuff doesnt even make sense, and its hard to find out by just playing with the OS.

example:

Windows, get in the command line, type dir /?, that will give a list of switches, and that is a logical step, to me, in linux nothing is logical, for example in linux i downloaded the latest Nvidia drivers, i had to quit the GUI, log off, go into a virtual command prompt and install them manually, to be faced with loads of graphics corruption. i managed to get through that, but then the computer decided it wasnt going to like that, so i had to run Sax2 -r -m 0=nvidia. Now that command is wrong for a start, as there is a capital S, therefore it wont run. stupid little things about linux are wayy behind what windows is, a consumer OS.

Also, Linux needs some sort of Decent 3D acceleration support or DirectX, something that can lure everyone.

The only thing about linux that impresses me is the install scheme, and how the boot loaders have full colour. The installation process for Linux is relatively simple, but again its little things, like the partitioning setup, its just pure garbage.

Example, a user installs an OS, gets to that stage, and it says do u want the following setup:

Format Dev/Dev6 1.00gb as swap with resiefs

Format Dev/Dev7 20.00gb as Ext2

Dev/Dev2 C as 15.00gb

to mean, that again defeats the object of the nice GUI, as the user has no idea what the hell that is going on about.

Linux runs on a Nice GUI, but the power cant be harnessed through it.

[_dandy_]

the original poster should not have browsed to nVidia's site to download then run an executable. An "apt-get install" would have done the whole search, download, install for him. :yes:

Yeah, it's pretty stupid for a user trying to get a driver for an Nvidia card to go to Nvidia's site. The obvious solution is to run a cryptic command-line utility. Duh. Everybody knows that.

Seriously...Put a newbie in front of Windows and another in front of Linux, I think the one sitting in front of Windows will manage to click his way around. The Linux user will be spending a lot more time reading help files and generally having his hand held by others with forum posts and such. Try to learn Linux as an offline user (or more realistically, try it while your NIC isn't being recognized), and I think you'll quickly realize exactly why it's hard for a newcomer to prefer Linux.

[markwolfe Veteran]

Linux and its various distro's all remind me of the way computers used to be. Complicated.

Reminds me of the dos days where you had to type alot of things in to get a game to run with conventional memory and what not. It seems like we are going back in time with the commands we need to enter to get things working. For all xp's faults its damn easier to use than linux out the box. Ive tried to switch to linux distro's many times, but always having the same problems. Once i install it, i need to get firefox, which needs more commands, then an mp3 player, but they are all crap and then theres my ipod. So i gave up. Back to xp, done in about a minute. If you love linux, fair play, but I wont be using it anymore.

Commands make some things easier - particularly since they are the same between distros and environments. Instead of saying "if you use KDE, click this menu; if you use Gnome, click this one; if XFCE, do this...", I can just say "type uname -a at a command prompt". A powerful shell is not a step backwards. Certainly even the mighty Microsoft has started to realize this, and with all their advances is adding in a new powerful *nix-like shell to their upcoming OS.

And if you want Linux, but want to avoid the command line, there is always Linspire.

Basically, i've got a dual boot system running at the mo, Windows XP Media Center and Suse 10.0 Final x86_64. now ive tried the 64bit version of windows, and its 10x better than the linux equivalant. the lack of 64-bit programs for 64-bit linux is silly, and even in the release notes it says how 3d-acceleration is near to impossible to accomplish. :no:

things like XGL are amazing, and that is the first step into good virtulaision. i thought, hey, i try it, but the things you have to do to even get it working is untrue.

Linux now has a fancy GUI, but everyway of installation, and configuration of the OS is done and preffered at the command line. That defeats the use of the GUI, as it has no power, and most Linux users always ramble on about the command line.

Very true, but for me, the syntax of the stuff doesnt even make sense, and its hard to find out by just playing with the OS.

example:

Windows, get in the command line, type dir /?, that will give a list of switches, and that is a logical step, to me, in linux nothing is logical, for example in linux i downloaded the latest Nvidia drivers, i had to quit the GUI, log off, go into a virtual command prompt and install them manually, to be faced with loads of graphics corruption. i managed to get through that, but then the computer decided it wasnt going to like that, so i had to run Sax2 -r -m 0=nvidia. Now that command is wrong for a start, as there is a capital S, therefore it wont run. stupid little things about linux are wayy behind what windows is, a consumer OS.

Also, Linux needs some sort of Decent 3D acceleration support or DirectX, something that can lure everyone.

The only thing about linux that impresses me is the install scheme, and how the boot loaders have full colour. The installation process for Linux is relatively simple, but again its little things, like the partitioning setup, its just pure garbage.

Example, a user installs an OS, gets to that stage, and it says do u want the following setup:

Format Dev/Dev6 1.00gb as swap with resiefs

Format Dev/Dev7 20.00gb as Ext2

Dev/Dev2 C as 15.00gb

to mean, that again defeats the object of the nice GUI, as the user has no idea what the hell that is going on about.

Linux runs on a Nice GUI, but the power cant be harnessed through it.

Yes, XGL looks pretty amazing. I'm not all that into the transparency and wobbly and spin/rotate, but moving window processing from the CPU to the GPU is a good idea - even if you don't like those awful effects.

Your comment that the *nix command line "defeats the use of the GUI, as it has no power" is so utterly wrong that I don't know where to start... :ermm:

You like your "/?" in DOS? Try using that to get help with your FTP. "ftp /?" gives you an error. Then try using Microsoft's built-in "help ftp". It suggests using "/?", which we just tried and know doesn't work. For ftp you need to use "-?" as your switch to get help. So much for that "logical step", eh?

You said you "had to" download and quit X to install your nVidia drivers. Why did you not use your built-in package manager? A point and click would have done the work for you. Or a command, if you prefer. The point isn't that "Linux is hard", or that "people who have problems with it are stupid". It is just a matter of your past Windows experience pushing you in the wrong way when you are first using Linux.

Oh, and if you think that the Windows 'drive letter' system makes sense, then I would certainly think you off your rocker! Have a couple of drives with primary and extended partitions, and try to tell me what the letters will end up being! In Linux, if I create an hda5, it stays as hda5, and that tells me exactly where that partition resides.

Yeah, it's pretty stupid for a user trying to get a driver for an Nvidia card to go to Nvidia's site. The obvious solution is to run a cryptic command-line utility. Duh. Everybody knows that.

Seriously...Put a newbie in front of Windows and another in front of Linux, I think the one sitting in front of Windows will manage to click his way around. The Linux user will be spending a lot more time reading help files and generally having his hand held by others with forum posts and such. Try to learn Linux as an offline user (or more realistically, try it while your NIC isn't being recognized), and I think you'll quickly realize exactly why it's hard for a newcomer to prefer Linux.

We already discussed the nVidia thing. Use the synaptic GUI to install it if you are so adverse to the command line.

As far as newbies using Linux - I have four kids and a wife, all of which can use my Linux box to do age appropriate tasks (web browsing, UT2k4, check my mail for me when I am at work, etc.) without any training from me on this "difficult" OS.

Now, if you are administering it, it does require some learning. But, so did Windows.

[Barney T. Administrators]

Yeah, it's pretty stupid for a user trying to get a driver for an Nvidia card to go to Nvidia's site. The obvious solution is to run a cryptic command-line utility. Duh. Everybody knows that.

Seriously...Put a newbie in front of Windows and another in front of Linux, I think the one sitting in front of Windows will manage to click his way around. The Linux user will be spending a lot more time reading help files and generally having his hand held by others with forum posts and such. Try to learn Linux as an offline user (or more realistically, try it while your NIC isn't being recognized), and I think you'll quickly realize exactly why it's hard for a newcomer to prefer Linux.

That is just a sarcastic, no-help post. It adds nothing to the thread here. It is also a broad generalization that only spreads confusion about Linux. There are plenty of distros that are as easy (or easier) than Windows. There is nothing cryptic about them. :no:

Mark is right about ease of use....especially after the initial set-up!

Barney

[=NickJ=]

...

First I can't read my MP3s... Looking up at the sound card... testing some sounds from another stuff...

Works.. ok, open FF, look on google, oh damn... Ubuntu don't support the "unfree" files... Great...

...

Unlock Ubuntu's MP3 support: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RestrictedFormats

[kryptonate]

Linux vs Windows vs Mac OS X... They are 3 totally different operating systems. If you want Linux to be more like Windows then use Windows, if you want it to be more like Mac OS X, then buy a mac. Linux's goal is not to be one of those, otherwise Linux wouldn't even been made. It's goal is to let everyone who wants to participate in it work together to get a product that pleases most people and has what the people want in it. Everything new takes time to learn and it's harder if you're used to a similar one than what you are trying. I just started with Linux about a week and a half ago and so far I love it. The biggest problem however is hardware which he sometimes can't find. But this isn't because the programmers who work on Linux don't do their job well, it's because a lot of hardware companies don't seem to be so willingly to create drivers for their products that work on Linux. Some things are hard to get to work under Linux, but if you look around on the internet you'll most likely find a solution for your problem. As for installing most software, I love Synaptic. Just search the name in it's list, mark it for installation, apply it et voila, you've got your program. It could however be more updated I think. I often find myself using an older version than the final one that is released.

[Fred Derf Veteran]

Yeah, it's pretty stupid for a user trying to get a driver for an Nvidia card to go to Nvidia's site. The obvious solution is to run a cryptic command-line utility. Duh. Everybody knows that.

Synaptic (a graphical front-end for the apt-get command) would allow him to install Nvidia drivers with a few points and clicks.

Actually, Debian has pre-compiled kernels with the Nvidia driver pre-installed and ready to go.

Then, tell me where all programs are when installed...

Since that only 1 on 2 installed programs/games apear in the program menu..

With Synaptic on a Debian-based system (i.e. Ubuntu) just about anything you install with Synaptic will automatically appear in the menus.

[ichi]

Why is Linux so hard? Because you're trying to use it as if it was Windows.

Try using windowsupdate to install all your software on Windows and then tell me if you're not hitting a brick wall.

[chavo]

I updated all of my software and got new nvidia drivers today, by typing one command in a console window.

Man I need some rest this Linux **** is killing me. It's not harder, just different as I was saying before. You don't have the time to learn a new system, fine, no problem. Stick with Windows and use what's best for you.

[Brian M. Veteran]

is it me or are there a lot of Windows fanboys here :p

Anyway - if you're struggling with linux - give suse 10 a try - its pretty automated, with NO TEXT installer (which makes it really easier), and on the hundred or so machines ive installed it on - the only thing ive ever had trouble with is getting it to recognise Dell Laptop's internal Wireless.

It also has a tool called YaST which basically does a similar job to the control panel, but is even easier (you choose whether it is a software, hardware or other issue, and go from there).

Two points which i find relative:

Most people who are new to linux try to use it like windows when it's not. One person said "Wheres "Turn off computer" in kde - its called "logoff". Pretty much the same (although different) things are there, just in different places and way.

And of course windows is going to be easier - youve had a hell of a lot more practice with it. Heck, i remember when we first got the start menu in windows 95 along with those other things at the top right of each window - i thought id never get used to them after being a die hard windows 3.1 user (sad, isnt it :) ).

Just give linux a try - dual boot with it - and use it occasionally - give it time, and with practice, you'll get used to how things work. Also, there are many dedicated linux forums out there - and to be honest - without the help of a forum called "linuxquestions" - i would never have gotten into linux (or never have been able to)

[Barney T. Administrators]

^ I agree with SuSE 10 It is awesome and simple as pie to use! :yes:

Barney

[NienorGT]

^ I agree with SuSE 10 It is awesome and simple as pie to use! :yes:

Barney

Does I should try suse then?

[SMFV1]

I was afraid of trying Linux so I went with the easier of them and Installed Ubuntu.

I liked it but was not happy when I could not use PhotoShop and other windows based programs.

None the less I managed to get up and running and that was the challenge.

Linux rocks in it's on way.

[water.hammer]

I don't see how windows is regarded as easier to use than Linux.

There's a difference between 'configuring' and 'usage and maintenance'

Windows can be easier to configure as it is designed to be noob friendly. Windows is designed for people who haven't seen a PC before.

Some distributions like archlinux can be hard to configure but keep in mind that setting up all your programs and configuring everything only takes a few hours. After that, it becomes so much easier to use and maintain than windows.

I left windows because it was so damn hard to maintain. I don't have time to look for invalid ClassIDs in the registry and whatever that **** is called. constant need to reboot after every update.

Under archlinux, I just have to just type 'pacman -Syu' in a terminal every other day and I'm updated to the latest software. If some software or service is updated, I simply need to close it and restart it after it is updated without the need to reboot the system.

[Barney T. Administrators]

Does I should try suse then?

Give it a whirl! You have nothing to lose.

Barney

[Brian M. Veteran]

Does I should try suse then?

IMO suse is one of the easier distros (if not the easiest) to use. Give it a whack, although what most people find is that once theyve got one specific distro that suits them (or like me, have two :) ), and once youve found that, you're set :D

[TokyoKiller]

To me Linux is, and always will be a server/operation operating system, designed to sit there, do what it's meant to do and do it efficiently and correctly so I never have to look at it or use it once it's going.

It's a labyrinth of disorganization, and it's always been that way. The fact it's customizable and has lots of different ways to do things may appeal to some, but not me - I don't need 743 different ways to change the screen resolution, and I just need one(no one need point out I'm exaggerating as well).

Since when was Vista due for release in 2001?

Read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_vista#Development

[OrganicPanda]

it's no harder than learning windows and i can say that because i just taught both of my parents to use ubuntu linux for all of their so-called 'end-user' needs (they have never used computers before) but then when they see me on my windows machine they are like "hey whats that, that doesent make sense, why has it done that, why wont that go away etc... etc..." so this 'it's alot harder' jazz has got to be just because of experience in windows, well thats my experience anyway.

[Tek]

Linux is "hard" because you need to read about it if you expect to do anything beyond what your graphical tools allow you to do.

[Kreuger]

The only hard thing about Linux is people getting their heads around that it works DIFFERENTLY than Windows and you have to have the time, patience and will to learn it. Just as Im sure you did when you got your first bicycle.

[micro]

Even with the package managers, things go wrong in linux, for me atleast, imust have installed ATI drivers from synaptic or whatever its called like 4 times, STILL didnt give me over 300FPs in glxgears.. could barely play tux racer.. and that was just the start of problems with video.

[Kreuger]

ATI is evil with Linux. They don't support open source as far as I know.