iPod Factories Called Into Question

[supernova_00]

True but I am sure you get a lot more money per hour than them.

ya over $40/hour for overtime but no one is forcing those people to work there so they can quit and get a new job...its no like its skilled labor they are doing and not like there are many jobs like that around there; so should be easy to find another job.

[iconoclast]

I'll take frazell's silence as an acceptance that I was correct, and he was not.

[+LogicalApex MVC]

I'll take frazell's silence as an acceptance that I was correct, and he was not.

I'll read your cited resources and offer a reply later tonight.

Sorry I've been busy writting proposals for a few clients as well as preparing for some projects my company needs to do. Didn't have time to read the sources when I saw your reply earlier this week.

[+LogicalApex MVC]

If they live in China, sure.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China_Business/HD01Cb05.html

They are making 50$ a month, which as I have stated, is about 400 yuan. 400*12 is 4800. according to the Asia Times, above, the mean income of rural residents, which these people are, is about 800 yuan less than what these workers are being paid.

Also, according to worldwatch.org http://www.worldwatch.org/node/3864

Again, some simple math shows us that if ~1500 yuan is one third the national average (rounded by me to 1500 since the given figure is cited as being less than one third), we again arrive at a mean annual income of 4500, still less than the 4800 yuan these workers are earning.

So I reiterate my previous statement; I do not see the big deal here.

I'll let the research speak for itself before I use a worthless personal attack on one's education (I did, however, correct your spelling of "outrageous").

Sorry that I could not respond to your post sooner, but my reply has arrived none the less...

My first question is where exactly did you get the idea that these workers are rural workers? The main problem that has been constantly cried about in China's rapidly expanding economy is the rural sector is being left out. Almost all jobs fueled by foreign investment are created in these urban centers. Which even by one of the sources you cited their pay rate would be less than half the average urban salary of 23,900 Yuan.

The self-reported annual income for affluent families averaged 51,000 yuan (US$6,145) in 2004, compared with a national average of 11,600 yuan (US$1,397) and an urban average of 23,900 yuan (US$2,879), according to Fang.

http://www.china.org.cn/English/features/fortune/129023.htm

...From 100 to 150 million surplus rural workers are adrift between the villages and the cities, many subsisting through part-time, low-paying jobs...Foreign investment remains a strong element in China's remarkable expansion in world trade and has been an important factor in the growth of urban jobs....

http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factb...os/ch.html#Econ

Even if we looked beyond the pay issue the conditions of work are still a major cause for concern. Even if the people are paid adequtly for their work they have to be working in safe conditions for a reasonable amount of hours. That is another area Apple isn't doing well in (as was cited very much earlier).

Even the UN's Charter on Human Rights agrees

Article 23.

(1) Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment.

(2) Everyone, without any discrimination, has the right to equal pay for equal work.

(3) Everyone who works has the right to just and favourable remuneration ensuring for himself and his family an existence worthy of human dignity, and supplemented, if necessary, by other means of social protection.

(4) Everyone has the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests.

Article 24.

Everyone has the right to rest and leisure, including reasonable limitation of working hours and periodic holidays with pay.

http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html

According to the original story...

Chinese manufacturer Foxconn makes the majority of iPods and employs and houses some 200,000 workers at its LongHua plant. Females are said to be favored over males because they are more honest, the story—which is not available online—said, quoting a security guard at the site. Work days typically run 15 hours long, according to the report.

The point I've been arguing is simple... We need to treat workers in other countries as we treat workers here as we are all human. The majority of China's population is Rural and the majority of the country (49% according to the CIA's World Fact Book) work in agriculture. Unless you can prove that the workers are rural workers than you nor I can argue if the pay is perfectly sufficient, but from all the information I have they aren't rural and the pay is not sufficient (sources linked above with proper quotations). But regardless of the pay issue Apple should be ensuring that their suppliers are not having their employees work more than 8 hours a day (as we have codified in law here) and if they do they should be paid 1.5x normal salary rates (again, as we have codified into law here). These are basic rights that the UN said every human should have and these are rights we should guarantee to anyone.

After all, Apple is making the iPOD for less than $.50 each labor wise (rough guess depending on the amount produced per worker) yet it is the most expensive MP3 player on the market. These savings are not being passed onto consumers and are only increasing the profits of Apple. A human life is worth more than a few extra dollars in the pockets of those who are already rich. I'm a big fan of globalization, but it should not be an avenue for companies to escape treating workers ethically.

[iconoclast]

I don't know what conditions are on average in China, it's not exactly easy to find sources on that, but a 15 hour day seems average. As for the iPod making so much profit, there is also the cost of supplies, packaging, shipping, marketing, etc that adds to the ".50$" per iPod.

[+LogicalApex MVC]

I don't know what conditions are on average in China, it's not exactly easy to find sources on that, but a 15 hour day seems average. As for the iPod making so much profit, there is also the cost of supplies, packaging, shipping, marketing, etc that adds to the ".50$" per iPod.

I know all of Apple's costs are not centered around Labor that's why I specifically said labor costs in my last post. Although, I doubt Apple's other costs are astronomical, but I haven't read their financial statements so I can't confirm.

Even if 15 hour work days are normal there that dosen't mean American companies should do them as the norm. We have an 8 hour work day standard for a reason. People need time to spend with family, persue education, etc. and those oppurtunities should be avalible to anyone working for a company headquatered in this country. If we go in American history back to the late 1800s and early 1900s we will see how nasty corporations are to employees without proper government intervention, to protect the employee. American companies should not be allowed to escape the standards we set here in order to exploit another labor force.

Globalization is good, but don't suck the marrow out of the bones of people. Follow the UN's Decleration and adhere to our labor standards.

If that were done companies could benefit from the cheaper labor avalible elsewhere without the public backlash of unethical treatment. Of course, they don't want to do that voluntarily, because more profit is had by exploitation than by humane treatment.