ATI Tells NVIDIA "Writing is on the Wall"


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That's the funniest thing I have read all day. Perhaps they make quality hardware, but there drivers sure suck. :x

Only if your using linux they suck. ATI loves microsoft and has way better driver support. Even with vista coming up that will be even more aparent.

Here's the way I see this whole thing.

ATI needed to hook up with AMD in order to look at Nvidia and start running it's mouth even more than before. It's pretty childish on ATI's side honestly.

It'll be funny when Intel hooks up with Nvidia in some kind of partnership. You know there's got to be some kind of talking going on between Intel and Nvidia since this has happened. I hope they partner up and look at AMD and ATI and say "Now what? Your move ;) "

I have two old systems that I just rebuilt for my nephews that now live with me. One is a 533mhz AMD With 3DNow, an 8mb ATI video card and 128mb's of ram. The other is a 333mhz Pentium 2, 4mb Nvidia Riva 128 video card and 128mb's of ram.

Nothing special, old parts I had laying around. Just something for them to play games on the internet (pogo, runescape) or some old PC games.

The 333mhz Intel Pentium 2/4mb Nvidia system blows away the 533mhz AMD/8mb ATI system.

The Intel system runs Quake 3 Arena pretty decently (that 4mb nvidia card was pretty good for it's day) and the other system gets as far as the game menu and crashes. I had to go get a couple patches for that game to run at all on the AMD system. It was a joke.

I will always hate AMD and ATI. Especially ATI because you really do need patches to run a lot of things it seems like. The only reason I even had anything made by them was because it was a friends old PC that he didn't want anymore and I never got around to doing anything with it and completely forgot I had it in the basement.

^ That's some serious BS mate. Do you know nothing about history? Yes AMD had some bad chips MANY years ago, then they made better chips than Intel for YEARS with much better price/performance ratio than Intel. Now Intel has managed to make something better than Intel again but AMD will top them again at some point.

That's how the PC market has been going for years just as ATi and nVIDIA kept trading places for the performance leader in the graphics cards. Did you not remember 3dfx used to be the leader in graphics cards? How times can change.

I assure you ATi will dominate the next generation of graphics cards, being in their second generation of unified shader architecture while nVIDIA won't even touch that yet. That means ATi will be the only company offering true DirectX 10 cards in the early life of Vista.

I will always hate AMD and ATI. Especially ATI because you really do need patches to run a lot of things it seems like. The only reason I even had anything made by them was because it was a friends old PC that he didn't want anymore and I never got around to doing anything with it and completely forgot I had it in the basement.

Oh really? A lot of patches? Ok one of the latest important small fix was Half-Life 2, Doom 3 also I think... Half LIfe 2 I don't even remember one but yeah they might of released one for it I can't say.

Am I the only blind **** here?

ATI doesn't release a game-specific patch at every driver release this is fanboyism at its best. And when they do, people complain? How can you complain when a company fixes a problem? Since when are patches a bad thing? They don't release patches at an alarming rate at which you get ****ed at by saying "OMG ANOTHER PATCH WHY WHY CAn"T THEY STOP SO MANY PATCHES 0mg0mg SPLAT!". If you're bitching about ATI releasing a patch once in a blue moon then I wonder how much you're bitching about Windows patching up every week.

In the end what do we care as customers? We want the best piece of hardware for the best price. I don't care if its Intel or AMD but yeah you can continue hating AMD and ATI all you want. **** man you're complaining about gaming performance on your old computers and you're what? ignoring at the same time that since the beginning of the AMD K7's, AMD has been very competitive in the gaming market and dominating with the Athlon64's until now when Finally Intel delivers something to kick AMD's ass?

BLablablalbal :wacko:

AMD should have bought nVidia, now THAT would make a good team.

I don't think that's how it would have been or could have been as we can see now. AMD and nVIDIA don't mix... I remember when Windows XP first came out, MS had to pump out a lot of patches for AMD processor.

I don't think they could afford it

Yeah my thoughts exactly. I don't think AMD can afford nVIDIA.

Here's the way I see this whole thing.

ATI needed to hook up with AMD in order to look at Nvidia and start running it's mouth even more than before. It's pretty childish on ATI's side honestly.

It'll be funny when Intel hooks up with Nvidia in some kind of partnership. You know there's got to be some kind of talking going on between Intel and Nvidia since this has happened. I hope they partner up and look at AMD and ATI and say "Now what? Your move ;) "

I have two old systems that I just rebuilt for my nephews that now live with me. One is a 533mhz AMD With 3DNow, an 8mb ATI video card and 128mb's of ram. The other is a 333mhz Pentium 2, 4mb Nvidia Riva 128 video card and 128mb's of ram.

Nothing special, old parts I had laying around. Just something for them to play games on the internet (pogo, runescape) or some old PC games.

The 333mhz Intel Pentium 2/4mb Nvidia system blows away the 533mhz AMD/8mb ATI system.

The Intel system runs Quake 3 Arena pretty decently (that 4mb nvidia card was pretty good for it's day) and the other system gets as far as the game menu and crashes. I had to go get a couple patches for that game to run at all on the AMD system. It was a joke.

I will always hate AMD and ATI. Especially ATI because you really do need patches to run a lot of things it seems like. The only reason I even had anything made by them was because it was a friends old PC that he didn't want anymore and I never got around to doing anything with it and completely forgot I had it in the basement.

I'm with you on everything you said...

Well ATI was complete crap up until the 8500(which was still flaky. The 9700 Pro was great, the 2.x series drivers were great, and here I am in 2006 loathing the 6.x series again, love the cycle with ATI. ATI has gotten sloppy again, while I think their hardware is fine their drivers are turning to crap again very fast. They're still a contender, they haven't quite degressed to pre-8500 era drivers, but I am dissapointed. To be fair though I've had problems with Nvidia before as well, so while problems do occur with everything, I think ATI's list of driver issues keeps getting bigger and bigger now, they've lost the high ground and have a serious problem in prioritizing in my opinion. If AMD could maybe point the team in the right direction all could be well again, they have the talent, they've done it before, just for some reason they're losing it.

AMD I think was alot more cinsistent, the K6 was a good step up but yeah the P2 and P3 were way better, the K7 however was even better, and the K8 is no slouch either. They've never really stumbled since they've decided to take on Intel, they don't always hold the speed crown but they've never really just floundered or released crap. I think they've got a good handle on the situation and their ultimate goals. In recent memory I'd say Intel was infinitely more reckless and silly than AMD, with the whole Netburst architecture, Rambus memory, switching to DDR-II when it was infact slower.

I think this will be an interesting time, hopefully good stuff comes out of this.

Forgot to remind NightmarE D nVIDIA is constantly patching games with new and new driver releases and many of them break compatibility or cause slowdowns for example in videos so nVIDIA isn't perfect in that aspect either.

I wouldnt bother wasting any time on him. :whistle:

Oh really? A lot of patches? Ok one of the latest important small fix was Half-Life 2, Doom 3 also I think... Half LIfe 2 I don't even remember one but yeah they might of released one for it I can't say.

Am I the only blind **** here?

ATI doesn't release a game-specific patch at every driver release this is fanboyism at its best. And when they do, people complain? How can you complain when a company fixes a problem? Since when are patches a bad thing? They don't release patches at an alarming rate at which you get ****ed at by saying "OMG ANOTHER PATCH WHY WHY CAn"T THEY STOP SO MANY PATCHES 0mg0mg SPLAT!". If you're bitching about ATI releasing a patch once in a blue moon then I wonder how much you're bitching about Windows patching up every week.

In the end what do we care as customers? We want the best piece of hardware for the best price. I don't care if its Intel or AMD but yeah you can continue hating AMD and ATI all you want. **** man you're complaining about gaming performance on your old computers and you're what? ignoring at the same time that since the beginning of the AMD K7's, AMD has been very competitive in the gaming market and dominating with the Athlon64's until now when Finally Intel delivers something to kick AMD's ass?

BLablablalbal :wacko:

ati got the **** owned out of them because of half life 2....works best on ATI yeh sure, ATI users couldnt even get to the game menu.

Microsoft does not release a patch every week. And also, microsoft patches AREN'T NECCESSARY all the time. ATI patches on the other hand are.

And also, Intel extreme owns the **** out of amd.

Forgot to remind NightmarE D nVIDIA is constantly patching games with new and new driver releases and many of them break compatibility or cause slowdowns for example in videos so nVIDIA isn't perfect in that aspect either.

bull****, i havent had any problems with nvidia since i got one about 6 years ago. ATI has way more problem.

Edited by mAcOdIn

Wow, ATI users couldn't get to the game menu? I've had HL 2 forever on my 9700 Pro and it ran great on that, I had no problem with the menu. Maybe if someone was trying to play it on a pre-8500 class card with shaders maybe. And don't call people names, this is your warning.

ati got the **** owned out of them because of half life 2....works best on ATI yeh sure, ATI users couldnt even get to the game menu.

What on Earth are you talking about? I pre-ordered Half-Life 2 - I installed it straight away and it ran perfectly on my ATi card. I have not even heard of the problems you describe, despite hanging around the Steam forums.

ATi used to have dreadful drivers but that changed with the 8500 series, though early drivers for it still had the tendency to BSOD. However, it was only a few years before that when nVidia reference drivers would produce the same results, relying on OEMs to pump out custom drivers (often arriving months late, it at all). ATi continued to improve, though they couldn't compete with the huge performance increases nVidia would manage. However, nVidia drivers went downhill and their nForce drivers were just dreadful - boot time trebled and system performance would often reduce (something to do with the IDE drivers), not to mention the nightmare I've had trying to get onboard LAN to work (I had to install a network card as several motherboards, nForce 1,2 and 4 have all had problems). Then there were the dozens of beta release nVidia would push out for graphics, fixing a problem with several games but screwing up another - not to mention the PureVideo problems they had. However, it wasn't long till ATi added the CCC and brought responsiveness crashing - it still takes ages to load up. There's no denying that ATi drivers have been very unimpressive recently but nVidia hasn't been winning any fans either.

Both ATi and nVidia have their problems. nVidia seem to win when it comes to sheer performance but when you start cranking up the AA/AF ATi come into their own - HDR + AA still isn't possible for nVidia (demonstrated most notably by Oblivion), yet ATi manages just fine thanks to their flexible and programmable architecture. However, SLI is infinitely better than Crossfire and has better support (and performance) when it comes to motherboards. Then there is ATi's dreadful Linux support, an area where nVidia does particularly well.

There are plenty of pros and cons on either side. A fan of ATi can produce a good arguement for their superiority as much as an nVidia fan. I personally side with ATi because I am more interested in image quality and, despite a few hiccups in the past, has been consistently better, though I have no loyalty. I do hope ATi's drivers improve, though with Vista there will be less flexibility and there should be less room for drivers to cause problems.

Its always interesting to see how blindly loyal people are to brands like little marketing goats. Baaaaa!

As long as technology continues to progress and be competitive, it's good for us as consumers. Whatever is best price/performance when I buy, that's what I get. The name is irrelevant. It could be a blow-me CPU with a you-suck GPU and 2 GB of pink-daisy ram, as long as it is the best deal I can get for my dollar, that's what I'm going to buy.

My 2c.

I know i'm out of touch with this whole ATi vs nVidia scene.

But i keep hearing about ATi Drivers arn't working properly, they are quite 'crap' or plain sucks. I've had ATi the last 2 years and i never, ever

had a single ATi driver problem ... Am i just lucky or can't people configure their drivers?

And also, Intel extreme owns the **** out of amd.

Maybe now they do, but before intel got their act together AMD was running past them in terms of performance. Thats how it works if you didn't know. Do you think intel would have put so much effort into their new core processors if they were not facing competition in the performance area?

Oh, and my 9600Pro always played HL2 just fine. I have also never had any driver problems with ATI. The only problem i can remember is some old 5.XX driver that made the BF2 textures turn black. I have had much more problems with my nForce3 chipset drivers.

I know i'm out of touch with this whole ATi vs nVidia scene.

But i keep hearing about ATi Drivers arn't working properly, they are quite 'crap' or plain sucks. I've had ATi the last 2 years and i never, ever

had a single ATi driver problem ... Am i just lucky or can't people configure their drivers?

Depends on what games you play. Way I see it with ATI's driver problems(outside of the CCC which isn't really a bug just a pain in the butt) is that they're almast always a problem on something niche, not used by most people. Like MoH; the spearhead expansion, how many people are still playing that right now and are they going to put the same work into fixing MoH:spearhead as opposed to say a Battlefield 2 problem? How long was CoH broken for ATI?

The problem I have with ATI's drivers now is that the problems they create stay on the list for months in some cases for over a year, which is what happened for some of their TV out functions. Of course this is still something that could happen with Nvidia but since they don't have a list of known issues it's harder to track this stuff, so it's easier to attack ATI because they hand you the ammunition. When you're Nvidia and you never acknowledge a problem and it persists across drivers it's annoying, when you're ATI and you acknowledge the problem and it persists it's like a slap in the face. That's the key difference, both Nvidia and ATI let bugs in their drivers pass through, both of them choose something else to focus on rather than fixing some of these bugs, but only with ATI do you actually get written confirmation that yes they're ignoring it. With Nvidia you can claim ignorance, with ATI it's negligence, and that's aggrevating. Then to see the list of driver additions and to see that they've tweaked the CCC and increased a benchmark score while not touching the bug that affects a game you can not physically run, it's just aggrevating.

My last Nvidia card was a geforce 3 card, great card although once the XP driver 28.XX series came out I got instant bluescreens until their next official driver, so that was an annoying wait that was a few months, it's not an ATI only occurance.

But yes, I have a huge problem with ATI's drivers right now. The last 2 releases flat out do not install on my system while everything prior to them worked, I've tried formatting, and man has Microsofts call in activation service gotten worse with their stupid say aloud your activation number to the computer than repeat the process to the person who finally picks up. And after a format they want me to clean my drivers? Use the Driver Uninstall feature of a driverset that doesn't install? I hate tech support. Why don't they ask me if the surge protecter is turned on next. It's so obvious that they changed something in 6.5 up that just doesn't work on my system and they tell me to use a driver cleaner or increase my AGP transfer rate when I'm using Pci-express, and all that I need for them to do is ask me for something, a log or some crap that I can send them, not to go off on some lame script.

Although i don't think this was a good move on either ATi's or AMD's part, I hope they both learn allot of things off each other, and lets all hope it starts a GPU price war :D

About this HL2 & ATi thing....if anyone remembers, game shops started selling the game 2 days earlier than they were meant too....so I had the game installed and running the minute Steam decrypted the files.....and my 9800Pro had no problems with it at all, so i don't know what people are smokin :)

nVidia won't be defeated easily, I'm sure.

I had one ATi card, and it kept taking me out of games, and displaying a message a long the lines of "The GPU has encountered an error and has been reset". Took it back to the store, changed it for my current nVidia which is still going strong. I'm always very wary of trying a product again, after there has been a fault like that - I would understand if it did it after a year of use or something, but not on something brand new.

My only comment regarding support of games between nVidia and ATi, is that I have noticed a lot of FAQS (for games I play) that have several items stating compatibility issues with ATi cards. Not normally something that makes the game unplayable, usually something like a certain effect makes the graphics scrambled so it has to be disabled.

....

The problem I have with ATI's drivers now is that the problems they create stay on the list for months in some cases for over a year, which is what happened for some of their TV out functions. Of course this is still something that could happen with Nvidia but since they don't have a list of known issues it's harder to track this stuff, so it's easier to attack ATI because they hand you the ammunition. When you're Nvidia and you never acknowledge a problem and it persists across drivers it's annoying, when you're ATI and you acknowledge the problem and it persists it's like a slap in the face. That's the key difference, both Nvidia and ATI let bugs in their drivers pass through, both of them choose something else to focus on rather than fixing some of these bugs, but only with ATI do you actually get written confirmation that yes they're ignoring it. With Nvidia you can claim ignorance, with ATI it's negligence, and that's aggrevating. Then to see the list of driver additions and to see that they've tweaked the CCC and increased a benchmark score while not touching the bug that affects a game you can not physically run, it's just aggrevating.

....

Contrary to what you think, nVidia does list the open issues with their drivers on every release. The details can always be found in the corresponding release notes for each driver, and have done so for as long as I can remember (IIRC, release notes during the Geforce 2 era had issues listed).

But the disparity is that many times you don't get an official release, you'd go months without a real driver and in those months be playing with unsupported and undocumented drivers from the board makers like Asus and the like.

Edit This might have changed post 9700 Pro era as that's when I jumped ship, but in the past new official Nvidia drivers were pretty rare.

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    • 007 First Light review: Satisfying spy adventure that James Bond needed by Pulasthi Ariyasinghe I have fond memories of classic James Bond games from the Electronic Arts era. Using high-tech gadgets, sneaking into parties, and dispatching bad guys were wildly exciting activities for my younger self. In recent years, Bond games have entirely disappeared, alongside the super spy genre. Fast forward to 2020, imagine my surprise when IO Interactive announced it had secured the Bond IP to make a game. Considering the studio’s Hitman history, this project is one I keenly kept an eye on. Six years later, 007 First Light is finally here, and after spending time inside this globe-trotting adventure, I can safely say that my excitement for this developer’s take on this universe was not unfounded. IO has taken lessons it has learned from Hitman and combined them with what I would expect from a directed cinematic experience like James Bond. I have refrained from mentioning major plot points to save you from story spoilers in this review. This is an original story that doesn’t tie into any movies, so there isn’t an expectation of knowing the backstory or the decades of movies either. Bond, James Bond When 007 First Light begins, Bond is just Bond. There isn’t a spy angle, fancy gadgets, or even a secret mission. The introductory mission is framed to show how James Bond handled himself and how he does not care about the odds when it comes to saving lives. It’s a gorgeous level as well, showing off an island scattered with cliffs in the middle of a storm. Looking back, this is probably the best-looking level in the game, with IO showing off all its abilities with its custom engine, Glacier. But my favorite ended up being the follow-up to this level. Once the United Kingdom's foreign intelligence agency, MI6, recruits our daring youngster into its super-spy “00” program, training begins. However, instead of treading through the same tutorial missions where the game teaches you to run and jump and drive, IO opted for a montage, and it’s amazing. The scenes cut between Bond practicing and improving his marksmanship, parkour, hand-to-hand combat, and driving as weeks go by in his training. What impressed me here was the lack of any loading screens or stutters as scenes instantly switched to different locations entirely, as if I was watching a movie. This creativity is a trend I noticed in most levels, where there is some sort of gameplay or choreography mechanic being introduced to keep things interesting. Soon, the rest of the cast is introduced, bringing other agents that our favorite secret agent will be working with, the scientists and engineers that build MI6’s spy gadgets, as well as higher-ranking officers that either appreciate or (at best) tolerate Bond’s rebellious attitude. 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However, the complete lack of stutters, the hundreds of NPCs that can be on screen without a single hitch, massive sandbox levels, and smooth transitions between them all play a part in making this an immensely immersive and complex experience. The in-engine cutscenes are gorgeous as well, offering an upgraded visual style and model detail over the gameplay sections. Animations are one aspect that jumps out at me about any new game, and First Light has nailed what a third-person action game should feel like. Walking, sneaking, and running all have a heaviness to them that I appreciate. Whenever Bond moves past a wall or a ledge, his arms reach out to lightly hold those structures until he moves away. NPCs actually react to my character and move out of the way. Even during melee combat or takedown animations, the fists impacting a body or a head hitting a wall all have that same weight. Even the more frivolous animations, like catching a gun in midair or chucking an empty one at a goon (yes, you can do that), are satisfying to pull off. Of course, the in-engine cutscene animations are remarkably well done too, with facial animations and the upgraded model details improving my engagement with the characters. I have an AMD Radeon RX 9070 XT 16GB paired with an eight-core Ryzen 7 3700X and 32GB of RAM, with the game running at 1440p resolution. Deciding to completely max out all the graphics options gave me a range of frame rates between 60 and 100 depending on the scene and level. While I did try to enable AMD FSR, which bumped up the frame rates by a good 20% at Quality mode, IO Interactive’s implementation of the technology wasn’t that great. Every corner and edge in levels began shimmering, and I was also seeing smearing issues in fast-moving sections. 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Traveling around the world chasing conspiracies, using high-tech gadgets disguised as everyday accessories, and improvising on the spot to fool foes all give a fantastic feeling of being a super spy. For an origin story, IO Interactive has done a great job at introducing the character and his motives for doing what he does. The satisfying combat animation and fantastic voice acting are definitely high points, with the License to Kill moments being my favorite. Not being able to move bodies and the simplistic stealth of mechanics does hurt its presentation a little. The NPC logic and intelligence is easy to manipulate and trick, repeating the same actions over and over again if I keep making distractions. The lack of an FOV slider was also a pain (quite literally) at times, and the FSR implementation is quite poor. These are things I hope the studio will improve upon with updates. Even with its faults, IO Interactive and James Bond are a match made in heaven. The studio knows how to make a main character that oozes charm and competency while also leaning heavily into its Hitman experience to make gigantic levels with what looks like hundreds of NPCs roaming around. Being an origin story, IO’s Bond has a way to go before he becomes the highly effective agent we see in the movie world. I am hoping the studio will continue this series alongside its Hitman ventures going forward, just so we get to experience the journey for longer. 007 First Light is available on PC (Steam, Epic Games Store, and Xbox PC), Xbox Series X|S, and PlayStation 5 for $69.99. This review was conducted on the PC version of the game provided by IO Interactive.
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    • Indeed - drives me mad - usually because Refresh is hidden in the full menu.
    • Firefox has had rounded corners for many years. I take it you're not a fan of modern browsers?
    • The problem is in the fundamentals of how businesses are allowed to operate and the change should happen in the basics and certain consumer friendly and moral practices should be enforced by law. This would fix so many things, not just this ages old default browser issue which is a tiny drop in the backut that includes a flood of privacy and other issues.
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