The Dark Side of Windows Vista RC1

[Randolph]

the sidebar is nothing compared to what it used to be in the longhorn beta. back when you could include the whole taskbar in the sidebar therefore moving the whole notification area to the side but that's not possible anymore :(

that was the main feature i was looking forward to

I miss the 4XXX builds. IMO they was heading in the RIGHT direction with them. Not saying they aren't now...but wow. Alot of features have been pulled. The hype is lower then it was a few months ago. To be honest...I am really hoping they have a surprise or something by RTM which will bring that hype back up because it just isn't looking good right now. :no:

[DrCheese]

UAC also protects you from trojans want to start administrative tasks without your knowledge and so UAC will prompt you and save your life!

The average luser that the majority of PC's are sold to will just always click "yes" on every box that appears. If they've already double clicked some dodgy file they will just ignore the confirmation box. It is the same with installing personal firewalls on the average users pc.

For power users, UAC is terrible. I've never installed anything dodgy on my PC myself.

If you think UAC annoying you, this means:

. you're doing a lot of unnecessary administrative tasks

. you're using a lot of incompatibility programs

. you don't understand the UAC and runas capabilities in Vista i.e. you're simple ignorant like Paul Thurrott

- UAC pop's up all the damn time. UAC is pointless for me and why do I need to be hand held around my own PC. If I want to install a program, its because I want to install a program. If I want to delete a file, its because I want to delete a file. If I make a mistake thats my own problem.

- Gee anyone would think that Vista is still a beta and not every program will be compatible yet. Of course we're still going to be running a lot of uncompatible programs.

- I do, its annoying, again Why do I need to be hand held around my own PC?

[franzon]

For power users, UAC is terrible.

:no: :no:

You wrong!!! UAC is especially suitable for power users, because with the UAC the power users will have the true full control of own computer. Without the UAC, the power users can't have the full control. Having the full control means you always know what happens and UAC help you for this purpose

Edited September 5, 2006 by franzon

[zipgenius]

Let's say it straight: UAC is necessary but badly copied from Linux.

Just like someone wrote before me, Vista could create a "root" account with no UAC enabled at all and a "user" account with UAC enabled. I love the kubuntu way, as an example.

[»X«]

..UAC is the best Vista feature, I love the UAC. UAC is not annoying....

Thanks. Now I know not to take anything you ever post seriously.

[franzon]

Let's say it straight: UAC is necessary but badly copied from Linux.

:no: :no:

Everything you have on linux, you have in Vista and on Vista you have much more.

Vista UAC is better than linux security, because UAC is more granular than Linux.

Edited September 5, 2006 by franzon

[DrCheese]

:no: :no:

You wrong!!! UAC is especially suitable for power users, because with the UAC the power users will have the true full control of own computer. Without the UAC, the power users can't have the full control. Having the full controll means you always know what happens! And UAC help you for this purpose

I know what happens without some lame popup box stopping me doing from what I want to do all the time.

and please don't say it prevents me from running dodgy software, My antivirus and anti spyware applications already do that. However they only pop up when they need to rather than ALL THE DAMN TIME :p

[franzon]

I know what happens without some lame popup box stopping me doing from what I want to do all the time.

and please don't say it prevents me from running dodgy software, My antivirus and anti spyware applications already do that.

:no: :no: :no:

No antivirus/antispyware is able to detect when an administrative task have to run i.e. executed by a program, so you don't have the full control of your computer without UAC. So antivirus and antispyware are not enough

Edited September 5, 2006 by franzon

[DrCheese]

Your missing the point

If I want to run an admin task, its because I WANT to run an admin task. Unless I am a complete n00b I'm not going to be running a dodgy virus and like I said above I already have protection for that.

Again, the average user will just always click yes on the prompts. I've seen users install personal firewalls and because they don't understand or don't care about the prompts, always click yes to allow every program that tries to connect out.

UAC is flawed

[XPero]

:no: :no:

You wrong!!! UAC is especially suitable for power users, because with the UAC the power users will have the true full control of own computer. Without the UAC, the power users can't have the full control. Having the full controll means you always know what happens! And UAC help you for this purpose

Oh my... UAC is thougt for parents, so their children do not mess up the system with MSN Messenger, Internet Explorer + their ignorance. Power users do not need this, or at least DO IT WELL (look at Linux). 5 Years running as admin in XP and no virus, no hacker, no nothing. Just learn how to use your PC.

[»X«]

The UAC will still **** off new users and old users alike. Kids and parents will get annoyed with it very fast. No one ones to click any more than they have to.

[franzon]

Your missing the point

If I want to run an admin task, its because I WANT to run an admin task. UAC is flawed

:no: :no:

You are a standard user and when you run an admin task UAC will prompt you in order to elevate. This happens on Mac and linux every day, so where's the problem? Why you bother?

[xavier114fch]

Oh my... UAC is thougt for parents, so their children do not mess up the system with MSN Messenger, Internet Explorer + their ignorance. Power users do not need this, or at least DO IT WELL (look at Linux). 5 Years running as admin in XP and no virus, no hacker, no nothing. Just learn how to use your PC.

We use sudo in Linux too, are we just children when we use Linux? So Power Users will not need sudo? :shifty:

[XPero]

We use sudo in Linux too, are we just children when we use Linux? So Power Users will not need sudo? :shifty:

Is sudo so annoying as UAC? :shifty:

[kaiwai]

http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/winvista_rc1_worst.asp

:no:

The first issue; its the 'browser experience' redux, back in vogue, with even a more hideous GUI; quite frankly, I don't undersatnd the logic; if you're going to go the 'web look and feel' keep it consistant, but the 'back button' at the top is stupid, you're walking through a wizard, and if it were a website, it would have a back and next botton; which begs to question, what does the back botton do? using web logic, it should go back to the previous page or site; so does that mean the previous application will be reloaded? Who ever worked on the HIG in Microsoft need to be bought out into the street, shot, revived and shot again.

UAC - really nice idea, implemented poorly; its as though some one who is incredibly bright says, "I've got a really good idea!" then writes it all down, shows it to his superiors, and they like it too; BUT instead of having that inventor lead the team, they get a group, completely unfamilar with the idea behind it, and implement it incredibly badly. This is one thing Microsoft can learn from UNIX.

Here is a solution, if it requires writing to the any directory outside the users directory THEN ask for the admin password, but the simple fact is, the resolution is saved in the user registry entries, application settings are saved there; there is a bootload of crap that can be saved there; why does Microsoft make things more painful that it needs to be?

[gigapixels Veteran]

:no: :no:

You are a standard user and when you run an admin task UAC will prompt you in order to elevate. This happens on Mac and linux every day, so where's the problem? Why you bother?

Because Mac and Linux security stuff doesn't prompt you for the stupidest ****. It only prompts you when necessary. UAC pops up all the time and is seriously annoying beyond any means necessary.

Sorry fanboy, but you're not going to convince anybody here.

[SIE]

Oh my... UAC is thougt for parents, so their children do not mess up the system with MSN Messenger, Internet Explorer + their ignorance. Power users do not need this, or at least DO IT WELL (look at Linux). 5 Years running as admin in XP and no virus, no hacker, no nothing. Just learn how to use your PC.

Yeah this would be great, or atleast it would be if like linux for example it asked for a password, not just a pointless confirmation box where the kids will just click whatever anyway.

[XPero]

Yeah this would be great, or atleast it would be if like linux for example it asked for a password, not just a pointless confirmation box where the kids will just click whatever anyway.

So true...

[Boiling Ice]

:no: :no:

Everything you have on linux, you have in Vista and on Vista you have much more.

Vista UAC is better than linux security, because UAC is more granular than Linux.

Your quote here shows a great example of a blinded fanboy.

Linux and has it's own pros anc cons and so vista, I use both and both are cans or worms.

I would strongly disagree with you regarding UAC is better than linux security. I suggest you go and read about linux security and compare it with UAC.

I do agree that UAC is a great feature, but it is really poorly implemented. UAC is annoying, if I want to delete a file, windows will pop up a window saying "are you sure?", I click yes, then UAC pops up and ask "are you sure?".... WTF.... I've been asked once and said yes, why the hell do I need another confirmation??? :wacko:

In Mac OS X, security will only popup for TRUE administrative tasks, it also asks for admin password to proceed, sodo does a great job... it asks in the right time and not for every damn single click or command I type.

Again UAC is a great feature but as others said, it was poorly implemented.

[kaiwai]

Your quote here shows a great example of a blinded fanboy.

Linux and has it's own pros anc cons and so vista, I use both and both are cans or worms.

I would strongly disagree with you regarding UAC is better than linux security. I suggest you go and read about linux security and compare it with UAC.

I do agree that UAC is a great feature, but it is really poorly implemented. UAC is annoying, if I want to delete a file, windows will pop up a window saying "are you sure?", I click yes, then UAC pops up and ask "are you sure?".... WTF.... I've been asked once and said yes, why the hell do I need another confirmation??? :wacko:

In Mac OS X, security will only popup for TRUE administrative tasks, it also asks for admin password to proceed, sodo does a great job... it asks in the right time and not for every damn single click or command I type.

Again UAC is a great feature but as others said, it was poorly implemented.

If you read up about SELinux and RBAC and other initiatives, the complexity of security is getting alot more complex than just having one all powerful user (root) and using sudo to get access.

[superhuman]

Did you read that though? The button placement, removal of buttons and menus and even inconsistency for menus across the system, even Windows XP didn't have that. They don't know what direction they are trying to bring the UI in, so it's all over the place. Look at ribbons on Office as well. I haven't used Vista for more than half an hour so I don't know first hand how bad it is myself, but the nice thing about Windows is that at least you can customize it for yourself in some ways. The glass looks clean and nice in some parts, the UI is just not there though :\

Just need to add "Back" button in, 2 buttons is ok. Or they can disable the top back arrow.

[Boiling Ice]

If you read up about SELinux and RBAC and other initiatives, the complexity of security is getting alot more complex than just having one all powerful user (root) and using sudo to get access.

that's true, and that's what makes Windows -some times- earyer to administer than Linux, but I never faced a situation in linux where it will annoy you with 3 or 4 popups or warning about doing a single action.

[kaiwai]

that's true, and that's what makes Windows -some times- earyer to administer than Linux, but I never faced a situation in linux where it will annoy you with 3 or 4 popups or warning about doing a single action.

If you're confronted with 'constant popup's on Windows Vista when running third party applications,t hen the issue is with the third party applications, and the vendor not writing their applications to take into account permissions and user limitations.

Run Nero under a restricted account on Windows XP - you *can* write to a cd under a resitrcitved account, but due to Nero being written so poorly, it has to have root/administrator access when doing so.

So before the 'slam feast' continues, lets remember, 90% of Windows problems you see are related to crappy third party vendors not getting their **** together; Windows Vista has been in beta form publically for over a year, there has been NOTHING stopping vendors from getting their applications ready; the information regarding UAC has been around for over 2 years.

If third party companies choose to ignore this advice, like they chose to ignore the information Microsoft gave out about Windows XP SP2, should Microsoft get blamed? I certainly don't think so!

[superhuman]

Here is a solution, if it requires writing to the any directory outside the users directory THEN ask for the admin password, but the simple fact is, the resolution is saved in the user registry entries, application settings are saved there; there is a bootload of crap that can be saved there; why does Microsoft make things more painful that it needs to be?

Retyping password like Linux is even more annoying. I think just a click on the button OK or Cancel is not that annoying. Remember when you do administrative things in Linux, you need to use "sudo" syntax anyway.

[gigapixels Veteran]

If you're confronted with 'constant popup's on Windows Vista when running third party applications,t hen the issue is with the third party applications, and the vendor not writing their applications to take into account permissions and user limitations.

Run Nero under a restricted account on Windows XP - you *can* write to a cd under a resitrcitved account, but due to Nero being written so poorly, it has to have root/administrator access when doing so.

So before the 'slam feast' continues, lets remember, 90% of Windows problems you see are related to crappy third party vendors not getting their **** together; Windows Vista has been in beta form publically for over a year, there has been NOTHING stopping vendors from getting their applications ready; the information regarding UAC has been around for over 2 years.

If third party companies choose to ignore this advice, like they chose to ignore the information Microsoft gave out about Windows XP SP2, should Microsoft get blamed? I certainly don't think so!

You're missing the point. Why should UAC come up for deleting a file? That's stupid. UAC should act EXACTLY as Mac OS X's security popups. They only pop up when doing true administrative tasks. And they ask for the admin password, which is a lot more secure than this crappy component of Vista.