Ballmer: Linux users owe Microsoft

[4CxbqFxVnstmA Veteran]

What makes you think Microsoft owes Linux anything?

i dont think ballme is saying linux has microsoft code. i think hes saying that linux uses iDeAs patented by microsoft. if this is the case, then clearly there are many ideas originating in linux that have found their way into microsoftware :rolleyes:

[C_Guy]

i dont think ballme is saying linux has microsoft code. i think hes saying that linux uses iDeAs patented by microsoft. if this is the case, then clearly there are many ideas originating in linux that have found their way into microsoftware :rolleyes:

I will say that the only Linux box I've seen does look like a Windows wannabe, it even has a Taskbar and Start Menu type deal. But I'm not a Linux user so enlighten me. What sorts of ideas do you think Microsoft has learned/borrowed/stolen from Linux?

Patents are so tricky. It's one thing to spend a ton of money on research and then patent a technology, but it's quite another to try to copyright a concept. As I mentioned in another thread, if the idea of a GUI could be copyrighted then Apple, Microsoft, and the Linux community would be in big trouble. Apple made a GUI after seeing Xeros', Microsoft made Windows after seeing Apple's, and so it continues.

[Miuku.]

I will say that the only Linux box I've seen does look like a Windows wannabe, it even has a Taskbar and Start Menu type deal. But I'm not a Linux user so enlighten me. What sorts of ideas do you think Microsoft has learned/borrowed/stolen from Linux?

Let's reverse the question in a more subtle way - what hasn't Microsoft "stolen" from Macs?

As for the "taskbar" and other 'innovations' - they've been there since conception of GUI based systems in the 80s, in one form or the other. Microsoft has simply taken ideas from different sources and streamlined them into their OS.

[markwolfe Veteran]

I will say that the only Linux box I've seen does look like a Windows wannabe, it even has a Taskbar and Start Menu type deal.

Mine doesn't. But I use fluxbox. :p You failed to mention that the desktop you saw probably had rectangular "windows" for programs. Icons, including a trash can, on a "desktop" that used a "background image". Yes. Many things will be the same regardless of the OS or environment you use. (by the way, flux also lacks desktop icons - so no trash can for me)

As I mentioned in another thread, if the idea of a GUI could be copyrighted then Apple, Microsoft, and the Linux community would be in big trouble. Apple made a GUI after seeing Xeros', Microsoft made Windows after seeing Apple's, and so it continues.

The GUI would be patented. Code is copywritten. Probably just a typo on your part, since you mentioned "patent" a bit prior, but the concepts must be kept clear.

And, yeah, if Xerox had thought enough to patent the whole GUI thing then everyone else would be out of luck. What color do you like your command prompt? :p (software patents suck)

[C_Guy]

Let's reverse the question in a more subtle way - what hasn't Microsoft "stolen" from Macs?

That question was asked in court and a judge ruled (and rightly so) that Microsoft didn't steal anything from Apple. Windows is too unique to be considered copyright infringement.

Yes, Microsoft got the idea from Apple but don't forget that Apple took the whole GUI idea from Xerox.

[markwolfe Veteran]

Windows is too unique to be considered copyright infringement.

patent :whistle:

[C_Guy]

Mine doesn't. But I use fluxbox. :p You failed to mention that the desktop you saw probably had rectangular "windows" for programs.

Yes, it had Windows (err, I mean windows) and a "control panel". (I absolutely love that Macs call their little boxes 'Windows' too heh heh) I'm not saying these are innovations, just saying it looked similar.

The GUI would be patented. Code is copywritten. Probably just a typo on your part, since you mentioned "patent" a bit prior, but the concepts must be kept clear.

This is the whole point! A GUI can be copyrighted (Hence why you see "Copyright Microsoft" when you load Windows). No one can make a GUI that looks too much like Windows or OS X without getting in big trouble. Code can be copyrighted. We've seen cases of software manufacturers getting sued for using code copied from other manufacturers. However, the idea of a GUI isn't copyrighted.

So, we're all waiting for Microsfot to tell us: Where is the infringement? If Linux boxes had a 'Recycle Bin' that looked and behaved exactly as it does on Windows, ok, maybe there's a case. But having a menu of options and programs isn't really infringement unless it looks and behaves very much like a Start Menu.

I can see the need for software patents to protect your R&D investment and, to an extent, what belongs to you as your intellectual property, but I can see how patents can easily get out of hand.

[markwolfe Veteran]

No. GUI is a concept. An idea it is patented. The code is copywritten. Images are either trademarked (logos) or copywritten (original works, just like code).

[d4v1d05]

Yes, it had Windows (err, I mean windows) and a "control panel". (I absolutely love that Macs call their little boxes 'Windows' too heh heh) I'm not saying these are innovations, just saying it looked similar.

Hmm, "X window system (1984)," "Microsoft Windows (1985)"

They were called windows by Unix before microsoft coined the term, it seems. Apple were earlier with their GUI, XEROX even earlier... Windows 1.0 was created as an addon for DOS, due to the increasing amount of GUI interaction, made popular by Apple Macintosh. (Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_1.0)

Kinda serves them right for choosing a generic name for nearly all of their s**t (Windows, Office, Word, Publisher, Messenger, etc.)

[Kreuger]

I don't owe anybody a damn thing.

[Mr White]

Time for the US Government to spank Microsoft again ! :angry:

[d4v1d05]

I don't owe anybody a damn thing.

Time for the US Government to spank Microsoft again ! :angry:

Agreed.

[MentalPatient]

I don't owe anybody a damn thing.

Best post...ever!

[MulletRobZ]

And for that, I got four words in response: Shut Up, Steve Ballmer! :p Those guys at Microsoft do more copying from others than any other company!

[Venturas]

Ballmer is after trouble, he's picking on Linux users for no reason why? because linux users get an Os more secure and can equally match windows and beat windows in any Os war i think he is jelous.

you talk like if Linux was the holy grail and Windows the devil...

wisen up will you...gezzz :x

[whitebread]

Ballmer is after trouble, he's picking on Linux users for no reason why? because linux users get an Os more secure and can equally match windows and beat windows in any Os war i think he is jelous.

:rolleyes:

People go on and on about Microsoft copying this, Microsoft copying that... But let's face it -- Linux is a cheap* knock-off of Windows/OS X/etc. I think MS/Apple would be legitimately able to sing that Irving Berlin song to all those linux n00bs (a.k.a. fanboys) :yes:.

* cheap = in the literal sense of the word

Edited November 18, 2006 by guylaroche

[Mathiasdm]

It's indeed cheap, but a knock-off?

From Minix, yes, but that OS is totally different from Windows :-p

And OS X is an expensive BSD knock-off.

We can go on and on :p

[whitebread]

zzzOMG! C'mon sis! One can't sign hard enough after reading garbage like this! Linux being a cheap knock off? HA! You go with your bad ass MCSE self. Get a clue you sweat hog!

Yah. Whatever. Even if you were right, it's hard to take you seriously when your only 2 posts on this forum are both pathetic excuses for participation. n00b :laugh:

[markwolfe Veteran]

plasterfish... two obnoxious posts out of two total on Neowin.

Yeah, we value your posts.

EDIT: Beaten to the reply by guylaroche :p