Blu-ray media outselling HD-DVD 2-to-1

[Robgig1088]

Personally, I think blu-ray's higher capacity will be more future proof. When the next high-def comes out (whats higher than 1080p? whatever..) then itll be able to hold everything, so it seems..

whatever i dont really care. I'm still waiting for everything to go internet-based (Which i dont think is THAT far off.....)

[lukeangel]

Personally, I think blu-ray's higher capacity will be more future proof. When the next high-def comes out (whats higher than 1080p? whatever..) then itll be able to hold everything, so it seems..

whatever i dont really care. I'm still waiting for everything to go internet-based (Which i dont think is THAT far off.....)

Not sure about the next High Def. Look how long it took us to get this far. and most broadcasts are in 720p at the moment anyways. I think it will be many years before we see a change in TV's. Atleast I hope so. Hi-Def is becoming a consumer mad-house with all the changes they keep making to it (as in 120Hz support, and 1080p support with 24 fps, then 60 fps.)

[Boz]

You people supporting and believing in this Blu-Ray crap are just funny really. There's absolutely NO WAY Blu-ray will win and all these ESTIMATES are just another desperate attempt from hardcore Blu-Ray supporters and Sony to give some kind of hype to people. HD-DVD will win and not because I say so, but because some significant facts back this standard. Sony and Fox can just blow steam up your behinds with statements like this. Here's why Blu-Ray can't win.

Statistics:

- Blu-Ray is seeing an increase in sold titles simply because the PS3 console has it's highlight during the launch and that excitement is fading out. There was not an electronic store here in Phoenix that doesn't have overstock of PS3 units, while they NEVER have Xbox or Wii or even XBox's HD-DVD player, I had hard time finding one to buy for myself. So you can freely forget about those millions and millions of units to be sold. It's simply not as easy since the PS3's starting price is too high. Now if they went down a $100 or so then it would give Blu-ray a fighting chance. On the other hand we have Xbox360 that is approaching 14 million SOLD units. Let's say 10% of XBox 360 users will have HD-DVD player (this is loose but not unrealistic estimate), that's 1.4 million HD-DVD players. Forget about the fact that a consumer will spend more money for XBox 360 this way..it is psychology. Someone bought an XBox for $299, then 6 months after that they want to buy an HD-DVD player for it. They won't feel the impact as much as shelling out full $600 or whatever, at once. It's a fact and human psychology. So don't worry, the almighty PS3 has a strong fight with catching up ahead.

- Now you will say, oh my, look at all these companies supporting Blu-Ray. True. However the ALMIGHTY God can support it, when the price of these players hovers from $800-$1000 you can bet your behind that not a lot of people will buy it, ESPECIALLY since the MOST expensive super high end unit for HD-DVD is $599 and the lowest (Xbox one) is $199. I mean come on, what reality do you people live in. Especially when you consider that HD-DVD quality is going to be the same as Blu-Ray and that's putting it politely because out of all these movies that are out for Blu-Ray at least 50% are playing CRAP due to bad encoding. HD-DVD just looks better. At the moment, but still looks better RIGHT NOW.

- All of the HOOPLA that Sony marketing is doing about Blu-Ray being superior format are all VERY VERY QUESTIONABLE. Everything that is out there spec wise about capacity is FUTURE IMPLEMENTATION, meaning there's a lot of obsticles to even reach it, again, I HATE it when they talk about something that even they don't know if they can reach without problems. If we remember, Sony was promising 50gb disks last year and we still don't have them. At the moment, dual layer/side HD-DVD has more capacity then Blu-Ray which allows HD-DVD to store not only HD-DVD version of the movie but also a regular DVD version as well. This means that you can watch a HD-DVD version on one side in your HD-DVD player and if you don't have it, you flip it and play it in regular DVD. Out of 15 titles I bought for my HD-DVD player, I have at least 5 that do this. Of course not all of them are encoded like this, but you will see more and more of it. Toshiba has also announced 60gb per layer disks as well in the future, so I hardly think that Blu-Ray has an upper hand. Take in consideration all of the interactive features and backwards compatibility HD-DVD has and it's pretty much clear who has the upper hand here.

- The name, I mean, HD-DVD, sounds normal and clear. For a regular consumer this means a lot. Not to mention all the crap that's been happening with Sony and it's reputation (I know for a fact that I won't give them a single penny anymore). They won't be spying and installing crap on me. If a company can do this to it's consumers, and you still support it, I mean, you need to think long and hard where we are going with everything. I wouldn't be surprised that a year from now you see PS3 consoles phoning home and reporting what movies you watched, what you have in your living room from devices and so on. Just sit and watch, I'm almost definitely certain this will be the case. And let's not forget how this company has the tendency to keep their stuff completely closed down, so you have to buy everything from them. No choices IS NEVER good and they are just simply TOO GREEDY.

In the end, I'm 100% sure that HD-DVD still outsells Blu-Ray and that this announcement is bought to stir more false excitement into the public, and the statistics are sponsored by who? 20th Century Fox HEY! THe only studio that is HARD CORE about Blu-Ray and stand to lose a lot of money since they decided not to sell HD-DVDs like other studios.

Edited February 5, 2007 by Boz

[Septimus]

Not in the EU it isn't.

Anyway, the high end porn producers support HD-DVD so this is really a non-issue.

BR only has the upper hand in the states due to all the free crap Sony gave out to promote PS3.

[Boz]

and btw,

"The numbers are becoming more clear. Without the PS3 and a studio advantage Blu-ray would be dead. They are championing their content advantage whilst HD DVD will be shoring up their players with at least 6 new models coming out this year. As far as the war between Bluray and HDDVD, if you take out PS3 and Xbox 360 add on sales, Bluray has sold about 25k verses HDDVD's 120k stand alone players. " THat's almost 6 times more players in favor of HD-DVD. If Sony's PS3 sales start slowing down, which they are, that's about it for Blu-Ray.

[lhnz]

Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!!! Oh, man... *breathes* that was really... bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!!!

Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!!! Oh my goodness!!! Just when I catch my breath, there you go again. Man, oh man, too funny. Thanks, though, I really needed a good laugh today.

It's true?! :blink:

[TDQuiksilver]

and btw,

"The numbers are becoming more clear. Without the PS3 and a studio advantage Blu-ray would be dead. They are championing their content advantage whilst HD DVD will be shoring up their players with at least 6 new models coming out this year. As far as the war between Bluray and HDDVD, if you take out PS3 and Xbox 360 add on sales, Bluray has sold about 25k verses HDDVD's 120k stand alone players. " THat's almost 6 times more players in favor of HD-DVD. If Sony's PS3 sales start slowing down, which they are, that's about it for Blu-Ray.

Yet another one that has never noticed the actual purpose of the Playstation 3 is a multimedia player, not a video game console. Sony will push it to be this so it might as well be added to the total of "stand alone players" in the Blu-ray column. It's not even an "add-on" sale as it is.. it's built in! But hey, to put the nail in the coffin here.. I still don't see how your novel of "facts" really adds up. I can't even rent HD-DVD at my local video rental stores, but Blu-ray I can. They are outselling 2 to 1.. and even giving away free or discounted discs.. it will only add up from here. Whether or not you think they are selling is up to you, but face it.. the studios, Sony and others are clearly pushing this format where it needs to be and it apparently seems to be working. I mean really.. in every commercial for a new movie being released on video I always hear it being touted as "Now available on DVD and Blu-ray disc!" Don't hear much about HD-DVD.. where the hell is the marketing? :whistle:

[IndianPimp99]

- Blu-Ray is seeing an increase in sold titles simply because the PS3 console has it's highlight during the launch and that excitement is fading out. There was not an electronic store here in Phoenix that doesn't have overstock of PS3 units, while they NEVER have Xbox or Wii or even XBox's HD-DVD player.

- The name, I mean, HD-DVD, sounds normal and clear. For a regular consumer this means a lot.

Early on when Sony couldn't produce enough units to keep shelves stocked everyone bashed Sony for not meeting demand and now that they actually can meet demand and Microsoft can't with it's HD-DVD addon player its "Oh, look at that HD-DVD is selling like hot cakes." How many stores in your area did you visit? I've been to three recently here and another 2 in Chicago and they all had plenty of PS3s, Wiis, 360s and 360 HD-DVD players. Damn, it must mean nobody is buying anything.

And while I admit that the simple minded will simply move from DVD to HD-DVD on name alone, that didn't mean when they came out with DVDs they had to go off of VHS and call it something like Digital Video Home System or DVHS.

"The numbers are becoming more clear. Without the PS3 and a studio advantage Blu-ray would be dead. They are championing their content advantage whilst HD DVD will be shoring up their players with at least 6 new models coming out this year. As far as the war between Bluray and HDDVD, if you take out PS3 and Xbox 360 add on sales, Bluray has sold about 25k verses HDDVD's 120k stand alone players. " THat's almost 6 times more players in favor of HD-DVD. If Sony's PS3 sales start slowing down, which they are, that's about it for Blu-Ray.

But isn't that the point though? The fact that the PS3 can be used as a standalone player allows more people access to it. Say for example there were two competing radio styles for cars. If Toyota came pre-installed with one and Ford didn't, but you could buy the competing format from the store afterwards, do you just toss out the number of people that bought a Toyota?

Bottom line is that there is too much money invested by both sides. Kind of like the whole DVD+R and DVD-R thing. Dual players and burners made the whole thing moot. While I think that's the way this is going, I really hope not. I think eventually, content will determine a winner. If only HD-DVD is going to release The Matrix, and The Lord of the Rings, and other movies that I like and would like to see in HD then that's where I'll go. If they cave and make it for both formats then well, I'll buy the one of whichever player I've got already.

[Boz]

Yet another one that has never noticed the actual purpose of the Playstation 3 is a multimedia player, not a video game console. Sony will push it to be this so it might as well be added to the total of "stand alone players" in the Blu-ray column. It's not even an "add-on" sale as it is.. it's built in! But hey, to put the nail in the coffin here.. I still don't see how your novel of "facts" really adds up. I can't even rent HD-DVD at my local video rental stores, but Blu-ray I can. They are outselling 2 to 1.. and even giving away free or discounted discs.. it will only add up from here. Whether or not you think they are selling is up to you, but face it.. the studios, Sony and others are clearly pushing this format where it needs to be and it apparently seems to be working. I mean really.. in every commercial for a new movie being released on video I always hear it being touted as "Now available on DVD and Blu-ray disc!" Don't hear much about HD-DVD.. where the hell is the marketing? :whistle:

First of all NO, PS3 is first and foremost a gaming console, if you see it as Blu-Ray player first, then that's your opinion. I guarantee you that at least 80 percent of users who buy PS3 are buying it for gaming and other things and Blu-Ray just comes to them as a bonus. Will they buy Blu-Ray disks? I don't think so, but they feel good that they have it anyways. The numbers we are seeing that spike BD sales is just after people used their $70 rebates on the console to "BUY" BD titles from Sony for FREE.

To be honest, with all the studio support and marketing you are mentioning, PS3 IS THE ONLY THING going for Blu-Ray. If it wasn't for PS3 Blu-Ray would be long gone. So ok, if we have this fact, then let's see, hm, dispite the marketing, the studio support (btw, only Fox and Sony Pictures are EXCLUSIVE BD supporters), Paramount, Universal, WB and others are also publishing movies in HD-DVD. I just so the number of coming soon titles on BD in comparision to HD-DVD. Yes, there are about 60 more titles coming out on BD, but that's pretty much because these are Sony Pictures and Fox movies and there's nothing you can do about it. If they want to lose money by not selling to HD-DVD that has 120k stand-alone players then we can't expect them to. But that's hardly 3.5:1 ratio on released movies. HD-DVD had at least 50 more titles before Jan '07. Sony and Fox will give advantage to BD in terms of number of titles available, well at least until they shoot down BD and start producing HD-DVDs. At that point I think Sony will go bankrupt because Blu-Ray and PS3 are their last chance to come back from serious financial pain.

I don't know where you are getting the info about 2:1..Seriously, if you count movies they GIVE AWAY for free, then ok, but otherwise, BD is still not there with sales no matter how much they want to say it is outselling HD-DVDs.

You hear NOW AVAILABLE ON DVD AND BLU-RAY DISC, because that's what you are listening too only. There are plenty advertisments for movies that say Available on DVD and HD-DVD. The ones you are looking at are mostly Sony Pictures and Fox movies.

I can't even rent HD-DVD at my local video rental stores, but Blu-ray I can

I think you are just plain lying here. I went to Blockbuster, Hollywood Video and there are no HD dvds anywhere to be rented be it HD-DVD or BD. You can order them with NetFlix or Blockbuster online (AND BOTH formats), but I haven't seen any of these in local stores. Tell me, what are those rental stores you are talking about where you can rent BD movies and I'll go today to see it. Please don't tell me you are counting some son and dad dvd rental store that's down the road from your house. We are talking about serious rental chains here, Netflix, Blockbuster, Hollywood.

[Ferret]

Thats quite disappointing - I was routing for HD-DVD.

[Eaten By A Grue]

- If we remember, Sony was promising 50gb disks last year and we still don't have them.

What are you talking about: http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=blu-ra...eckout-restrict

Statistics:

- Blu-Ray is seeing an increase in sold titles simply because the PS3 console has it's highlight during the launch and that excitement is fading out. There was not an electronic store here in Phoenix that doesn't have overstock of PS3 units, while they NEVER have Xbox or Wii or even XBox's HD-DVD player, I had hard time finding one to buy for myself. So you can freely forget about those millions and millions of units to be sold.d.

You really shouldn't using anecdotal evidence as fact.

The numbers we are seeing that spike BD sales is just after people used their $70 rebates on the console to "BUY" BD titles from Sony for FREE.

I don't know where you are getting the info about 2:1..Seriously, if you count movies they GIVE AWAY for free, then ok, but otherwise, BD is still not there with sales no matter how much they want to say it is outselling HD-DVDs.

They are not giving away free movies, they are giving $10 rebates and no way can you get a blu-ray movie for free with a $10 rebate: http://www.bluraymovierebate.com/ps_movies.html

A blu-ray movie is $20+, you still need to come up with the $10+ after the coupon. That is NOT free.

Edited February 6, 2007 by Ridley Norfair

[MrCobra]

I'd bet if the article talked about HD-DVD being ahead in sales you wouldn't be so eager to call BS, but would rather be laughing at sony :whistle:

Personally, I'd be laughing at anyone who promotes something by smudging the figures. Sony can't really claim BD is outselling HD-DVD by 2-1 when they giving coupons for FREE movies. If it were MS doing this I'd laughing at their sorry asses as well but this is after all Sony.

[Eaten By A Grue]

Personally, I'd be laughing at anyone who promotes something by smudging the figures. Sony can't really claim BD is outselling HD-DVD by 2-1 when they giving coupons for FREE movies. If it were MS doing this I'd laughing at their sorry asses as well but this is after all Sony.

So if Sony was actually giving away a coupon for free blu-ray discs (which they are not) and claiming it as sales it would be BS, but Toshiba who is actually giving away 3 free HD-DVD movies and counting it wouldn't be BS?

BTW it is a rebate for a blu-ray movie NOT a free coupon. If I got coupon for a free blu-ray movie when I bought the PS3 I sure as hell would have been happy.

$10 off a blu-ray title != FREE. Blu-Ray movies are $20+

Edited February 6, 2007 by Ridley Norfair

[gunnerhkjp]

At that point I think Sony will go bankrupt because Blu-Ray and PS3 are their last chance to come back from serious financial pain.

Sony is not in any "serious financial pain". They are doing quite alright.

[L3thal Veteran]

Anti-Blu-Ray sentiment is getting out of control :no:

I sure do hope Blu-Ray wins over the market so all of these anti-BD band wagoners are forced to use Blu-Ray.

[Eaten By A Grue]

Anti-Blu-Ray sentiment is getting out of control :no:

Something tells me if it was Toshiba as the main backer of blu-ray and Sony the main backer of HD-DVD there would be many bandwagon jumpers to blu-ray. Or even take Sony out of the equation and make another company like Panisonic\Samsung\Phillip\etc. the main back of blu-ray people would be whistling a different tune. Even though the blu-ray media is technologically superior, people here are more concerned about the company behind it, which is pretty sad.

Edited February 6, 2007 by Ridley Norfair

[MrCobra]

So if Sony was actually giving away a coupon for free blu-ray discs (which they are not) and claiming it as sales it would be BS, but Toshiba who is actually giving away 3 free HD-DVD movies and counting it wouldn't be BS?

BTW it is a rebate for a blu-ray movie NOT a free coupon. If I got coupon for a free blu-ray movie when I bought the PS3 I sure as hell would have been happy.

$10 off a blu-ray title != FREE. Blu-Ray movies are $20+

Sales of movies on Blu-ray discs have surpassed sales of motion pictures on HD DVDs in the USA, a market study by a market tracking agency claims. But that is not a surprise: Sony has bundled some PlayStation 3 game machines with a BD movie and included a voucher for another Blu-ray disc, essentially shipping several hundreds of thousands Blu-ray movies for free.

Here's the link from the FP article. https://www.neowin.net/index.php?act=view&id=37840

Here's the original story it was linked to. http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/multimedia/di...0202090024.html

Thank you and come again.

Anti-Blu-Ray sentiment is getting out of control :no:

I sure do hope Blu-Ray wins over the market so all of these anti-BD band wagoners are forced to use Blu-Ray.

It's a Sony format. History of Sony has show that people do not want that crap. Everything they've made format wise (with a few exceptions) have failed badly. They make and try to charge a left and right nut for it. The reson is because it has the Sony name tacked on to it. At one point the name Sony actually meant something. Now all it means is sub par, malfunctioning merchandise with an attitue that they it will take over because it's a Sony product.

[sundayx Veteran]

Anti-Blu-Ray sentiment is getting out of control :no:

I sure do hope Blu-Ray wins over the market so all of these anti-BD band wagoners are forced to use Blu-Ray.

Reason why i do not participate in sony related discussion topics on neowin.

[Sheppard]

Anti-Blu-Ray sentiment is getting out of control :no:

Not really, history has proven that most media formats Sony get behind turn to crap, like King Midas but in reverse. They are too caught up in how it would benefit them to realise how expensive and ultimately propietary most of their stuff is.

I sure do hope Blu-Ray wins over the market so all of these anti-BD band wagoners are forced to use Blu-Ray.

If Blu-Ray wins ill just turn to Online Media Distribution, its getting to the point where on demand hi-def is becoming viable, i refuse to buy into anything Sony thats not at least half the price it was when it first came out.

[L3thal Veteran]

It's a Sony format. History of Sony has show that people do not want that crap. Everything they've made format wise (with a few exceptions) have failed badly. They make and try to charge a left and right nut for it. The reson is because it has the Sony name tacked on to it. At one point the name Sony actually meant something. Now all it means is sub par, malfunctioning merchandise with an attitue that they it will take over because it's a Sony product.

History is just that, history. What makes you think that Sony will fail again? You fail to realize that this isn't only Sony backing it up, this is mostly the major Hollywood studios along with major PC vendors as well. Common sense tells you that if Blu-Ray was doomed to failure, Hollywood wouldn't invest millions to get their movies on to Blu-Ray, now would they?

Blu-Ray's cost has nothing to do with the name Sony. If you had a clue of why it was priced slightly higher compared to HD-DVD you would understand that manufacturing costs are higher at the present time compared to HD-DVD's. Again, this is a format that is being backed up by major corporations, something Sony lacked in their previous history.

Give it another year of total sales and we will see if history matters anymore.

Not really, history has proven that most media formats Sony get behind turn to crap, like King Midas but in reverse. They are too caught up in how it would benefit them to realise how expensive and ultimately propietary most of their stuff is.

If Blu-Ray wins ill just turn to Online Media Distribution, its getting to the point where on demand hi-def is becoming viable, i refuse to buy into anything Sony thats not at least half the price it was when it first came out.

Blu-Ray is not a proprietary format that is strictly for Sony products.

We won't be seeing on-demand HD video distribution anytime soon, so don't get all caught up in that idea. There are barely any on-demand DVD distribution going on let alone HD streaming which will reach the sizes of 20+ gb.

[MrCobra]

History is just that, history. What makes you think that Sony will fail again? You fail to realize that this isn't only Sony backing it up, this is mostly the major Hollywood studios along with major PC vendors as well. Common sense tells you that if Blu-Ray was doomed to failure, Hollywood wouldn't invest millions to get their movies on to Blu-Ray, now would they?

How old is the UMD format? Not old by a long shot. People didn't want it. It was too expensive. A local general merchandise store near me sold movies on both DVD and UMD. The UMD was smaller video storage of cource with crappy quality and $12-$15 more expansive than the DVD.

Common sense should also tell Sony that they've FUBAR'd almost every attempt to push a format on people and should quit while they're ahead. Just because a format is being backed by a big conglomerate of companies doesn't mean that it will go over well either. People bet on the success of things all the time and they sometimes fail. So, Hollywood is backing it.

Blu-Ray's cost has nothing to do with the name Sony.

Any of the cost on any merchandise has to do with the name on it or behind it. Why do you think Nike shoes sells for so much? Because they're better? No, they're made the same was as most other shoes are (in sweat shops in Mexico and other places) and sold for high prices because people have had it knocked into them over and over that name brands + high prices must mean it's a better quality product.

If you had a clue of why it was priced slightly higher compared to HD-DVD you would understand that manufacturing costs are higher at the present time compared to HD-DVD's. Again, this is a format that is being backed up by major corporations, something Sony lacked in their previous history.

Manufacturing costs for BD are high right now becuase of the low yields being produced. I get the laws of supply and demand.

Give it another year of total sales and we will see if history matters anymore.

Ok. I won't say anything else about BD on these forums until this time next year. If I turn out to be right expect a big TOLD YA SO. :laugh:

[Eaten By A Grue]

Here's the link from the FP article. https://www.neowin.net/index.php?act=view&id=37840

Here's the original story it was linked to. http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/multimedia/di...0202090024.html

Thank you and come again.

The PS3 either comes with Talladega Nights or a $10 voucher, you are getting your information from some random article when the official Sony site even says it is a rebate for $10: http://www.bluraymovierebate.com/ps_movies.html

Even other people mention it who bought a PS3:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=800529

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=796209

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=776165

Edited February 7, 2007 by Ridley Norfair

[L3thal Veteran]

Ok. I won't say anything else about BD on these forums until this time next year. If I turn out to be right expect a big TOLD YA SO. :laugh:

We'll see ;)

Having said that, time to go rent a Blu-Ray movie :whistle:

[Robgig1088]

Something tells me if it was Toshiba as the main backer of blu-ray and Sony the main backer of HD-DVD there would be many bandwagon jumpers to blu-ray. Or even take Sony out of the equation and make another company like Panisonic\Samsung\Phillip\etc. the main back of blu-ray people would be whistling a different tune. Even though the blu-ray media is technologically superior, people here are more concerned about the company behind it, which is pretty sad.

very well said.

[Smigit]

How old is the UMD format? Not old by a long shot. People didn't want it. It was too expensive. A local general merchandise store near me sold movies on both DVD and UMD. The UMD was smaller video storage of cource with crappy quality and $12-$15 more expansive than the DVD.

I dont think cost is what killed UMD at all but the practical use of the format. To use it you needed a PSP and you had to actually want to watch movies on an ultra small screen. In reality most people arent particully keen on watching videos on such a screen regardless of the cost and the fact the PSP sales while ok but werent GREAT didnt help either. UMD movies was a niche product, its probably not a cost issue at all even if cost didnt help.