Sony redesigns Euro PS3

[DrCheese]

I'm confused... so in the space of a few months they decided to remove all PS2/1 parts they had in the PS3 to make perfect hardware compatiblity? Why? Why do a U-Turn on a products features this soon after product launch, especially since most of the PS3 stock for Europe would have been made in Jan/Feb so thats even less time after launch

I've never owned a PS1 nor a PS2 and I don't see the point in buying a PS2 for my HDTV as it will look garbage. I was looking forward to playing all the games on my PS3

>.<

[Sniper101]

Thats obsured for sony, what is the world coming too anyway :) PC gaming is still thriving sooo i shall stick to that and my PS2

[Coldgunner]

I'm confused... so in the space of a few months they decided to remove all PS2/1 parts they had in the PS3 to make perfect hardware compatiblity? Why? Why do a U-Turn on a products features this soon after product launch, especially since most of the PS3 stock for Europe would have been made in Jan/Feb so thats even less time after launch

I've never owned a PS1 nor a PS2 and I don't see the point in buying a PS2 for my HDTV as it will look garbage. I was looking forward to playing all the games on my PS3

>.<

same situation here. this makes me glad I bought a wii and soon to be purchased x360, sony have become arrogant and are trying to dictate what their customers want instead of listening, where ms and ninty have been doing the right thing (mostly).

[obsolete_power]

This is probably done to cut down on "costs" if that makes any sense whatsoever :no:

[Chicane-UK Veteran]

What the hell are Sony doing.. I think they're losing the plot badly! :(

[forster]

I'm confused... so in the space of a few months they decided to remove all PS2/1 parts they had in the PS3 to make perfect hardware compatiblity? Why? Why do a U-Turn on a products features this soon after product launch, especially since most of the PS3 stock for Europe would have been made in Jan/Feb so thats even less time after launch

I've never owned a PS1 nor a PS2 and I don't see the point in buying a PS2 for my HDTV as it will look garbage. I was looking forward to playing all the games on my PS3

>.<

lol, you are right, you are confused. You think they had a PSOne and a PS2 inside the PS3?

Besides - its not ALL - its just a reduced amount of games that will be compatible, christ, its either one or the other with some people, why cant you read what was actually quoted instead of closing your eyes to everything.

[TDQuiksilver]

if you really want to play ps2 games, buy a ps2. they're much cheaper now :shifty:

Agreed to an extent. It's funny though..

1. Sony promises full backward compatibility in Japan and NA at launch and stumbles at first with consumers finding that this claim was not 100% accurate at first. Slowly being fixed. People throw a fit anyways touting that Sony lied.

2. Sony announces beforehand that the PS3 will not offer full backwards compatibility at the Europe launch to stray from the "Sony is a bunch of liars" accuations and cut costs (you would think this is part of it). People still throw a fit.

I guess it goes to show.. you just can't please everybody. No matter if it's a box of crackers or a video game console. But I like the general attitude the company has now.. look forward and beyond, not back. I find that most people on the different Sony boards have the idea of "I bought the PS3 to play PS3 games and for it's extra media offerings. If I wanted to play mostly PS2 games I'd just stick with a PS2. They're dirt cheap." I don't think this is necessarily a bad move, but probably something that should have been brought up before November 17th even. Maybe Microsoft should still offer support to Windows 95 and 98 users too. :laugh:

[Phemo]

lol, you are right, you are confused. You think they had a PSOne and a PS2 inside the PS3?

Well he said parts, and they do indeed have the PS2 CPU/GPU inside the PS3:

http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2006/1111/ps3.htm

Or more specifically:

http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2006/1111/ps3_37.jpg

Still, as already mentioned, I don't understand why people think this is such a big deal. If you want to play older games, just keep hold of the consoles you own now. I didn't buy brand new consoles to play old games on. By the time the newer consoles appear, the old ones are worth little anyway. For example, selling a 2nd hand PS2 now would get you about ?50 - hardly worth the bother.

[cashman Veteran]

The thing that worries me about this is this quote:

"The European PS3 will feature the Cell Broadband Engine?, 60 GB hard disc drive, Blu-ray Disc player, built-in Wi-Fi connectivity, SIXAXIS? wireless controller. It also embodies a new combination of hardware and software emulation which will enable PS3 to be compatible with a broad range of original PlayStation? (PS) titles alimited rangee of PlayStation?2 (PS2) titles."

Why debunk the best selling home console of all time? People obviously love the PS2, so why put doubt in their minds with software emulation. Are you telling me the time they spend getting the PS3 to work with the PS2 games will not hinder the development of future titles? Software emulation is a complete joke on the 360.

I think it's a complete joke. Sony just went and ruined what was one of the most positive weeks in the media for them in a long run. People were actually starting to get excited about this, now, well, I'm disappointed to say the least.

[forster]

Give me a link that says they have removed the emotion engine chip from the PS3 and Ill give you credance.

If the amount of backwards comp games is reduced, I doubt the EE chip is removed.

Admittedly to a minor extent cheese is right, but to the same extent he is wrong. Therefore - shenanigans!

[DrCheese]

lol, you are right, you are confused. You think they had a PSOne and a PS2 inside the PS3?

Besides - its not ALL - its just a reduced amount of games that will be compatible, christ, its either one or the other with some people, why cant you read what was actually quoted instead of closing your eyes to everything.

Actually yes they did :p They did the same with the PS2, I vaguly remember them using the PS1's CPU as the PS2's I/O controller so when a PS1 game is inserted it uses that instead, giving them pretty much 100% compatibility.

Here we go:

Playstation 3 with PS2 hardware:

http://uk.ps3.ign.com/articles/711/711242p1.html

Infomation about the ps2 having the ps1's cpu:

http://www.megagames.com/ps2/ps2_info.shtml

Interesting that the first article does mention

The magazine adds that Sony plans on removing the PS2 chipset from future revisions of the PS3 hardware once it has finished development of a proper software-based PS2 emulator.

Still seems bizzare to me to do this so quickly, I do hope the emulator is much closer to 100% support than the 360's pitiful xbox game support. If it is then I'll let them off, I wish they would post the game list before launch and not after

I really do want to pick up a PS3 since I've never owned a sony console but for now I think I'll grab a cheapo PS2 to play ps2 games for now.

[forster]

Actually, a software based PS2 emulator has been the holy grail of a lot of teh internets groups. Part of me is more impressed that they have achieved a software emulator over using the hardware.

[TDQuiksilver]

Still seems bizzare to me to do this so quickly, I do hope the emulator is much closer to 100% support than the 360's pitiful xbox game support

But that's just it. As the software emulation comes along what's the use for the hardware emulation? If it's coded right that is.

[DrCheese]

But that's just it. As the software emulation comes along what's the use for the hardware emulation? If it's coded right that is.

Ya I'll be pretty impressed if the software emulation is perfect, it does open the door for upscaling and AA/AF like the 360 does on some games. tho just like in my post above I wish they'd post the list sooner rather than later.

[MadFerIt]

But that's just it. As the software emulation comes along what's the use for the hardware emulation? If it's coded right that is.

That's true, but software emulation is a very difficult thing to accomplish. Look at the 360, each individual game has to be tested/fixed/etc. And it's a very slow process too.

Granted if I had the choice of regular 480i or 480p hardware emulation and 720p+ Anti-Aliasing software emulation it's pretty obvious the latter is better.. But there are many xbox games that don't work on the 360.

But in my eyes, this issue is more about what North America/Japan gets from their PS3 versus what Europeans will get.

Obviously some hardware has been removed from the PS3 Euro version, otherwise there would be no problem with the emulation. Most likely to lower the loss from each PS3 console, which from a financial position is very logical.. But again, there will be some people who will decide not to purchase a PS3 for this very reason. It might only be a small minority, but that's still something.

[Danrarbc]

2. Sony announces beforehand that the PS3 will not offer full backwards compatibility at the Europe launch to stray from the "Sony is a bunch of liars" accuations and cut costs (you would think this is part of it). People still throw a fit.

But they only told people after the 'record number of preorders'. I've sold several PS3s at work where all the person buys is a couple PS2 games for it rather than a PS3 one, it's not the majority but still those are PS3 that wouldn't have been sold at all if the games didn't work.

PS: Yeah, I thought those people were nuts too :p

[forster]

But again, there will be some people who will decide not to purchase a PS3 for this very reason. It might only be a small minority, but that's still something.

I still cant see why people would refuse to buy a next gen console because it wont play last gen games - its ludicrous, its lame, and its other things beginning with L.

[Sethos]

I still cant see why people would refuse to buy a next gen console because it wont play last gen games - its ludicrous, its lame, and its other things beginning with L.

Yeah, your like the chief of the tribe :rolleyes:

[forster]

Yeah, your like the chief of the tribe :rolleyes:

I think you may need to take yourself outside and give yourself a talking to.

[MadFerIt]

I still cant see why people would refuse to buy a next gen console because it wont play last gen games - its ludicrous, its lame, and its other things beginning with L.

I think you need to understand something. The problem isn't that the console doesn't have near 100% support for legacy titles.. It's that the American/Japanese version have it and the European version doesn't. That's really the only problem.

I was just reading 1up.com however.. The American version might be getting the hardware removal as well in future shipments. That might help a bit (then at least every future PS3 owner no matter where they might live, will be getting the same "hardware" changes).

Which is a bit distressing for me.. Since I might buy a PS3 when the price is reasonable.. I really hope this software emulation they have up their sleeves gives it a graphical improvement (resolution, AA, etc).

[forster]

I think that the main problem is that Sony are losing money on every PS3.

A meeting would have taken place as to how to recoup some of the losses, and as you said, this would be it.

My only problem is that I dont personally see it as a good thing, whereas others do. Im open to other peoples ideas, and really, I get it, but if it would have originally lowered the price of the initial units to remove legacy support altogether, Id be all for it.

[King Raa]

I still cant see why people would refuse to buy a next gen console because it wont play last gen games - its ludicrous, its lame, and its other things beginning with L.

Because you have a large library of old games and don't want the space of 2 consoles and all that goes with them? I don't know I wasn't old enough to be buying things back when SNES and NES were about... I don't imagine anyone was annoyed by the SNES not playing NES games.

[forster]

Because you have a large library of old games and don't want the space of 2 consoles and all that goes with them?

But is that enough of a reason to create a more expensive next gen system? To make every single buyer pay more per unit?

As has already been said, the software emulator will be continually improved upon to increase the library of games it supports.

I wonder if it was the same team that came up with the PSOne emulator for the PSP.

As a kind of side step, it has been suggested that PSP games releases will be moved from retail UMDs to pure download only titles via the Playstation store. I wonder whether this is in Sonys plans somewhere.

Edited February 23, 2007 by forster

[Ironman273]

I still cant see why people would refuse to buy a next gen console because it wont play last gen games - its ludicrous, its lame, and its other things beginning with L.

forster, I agree with you 100% (BTW, weren't you going home? ;) ) but I know a lot of Sony supporters throwing dirt at Microsoft for not being 100% BC, even though they never promised any BC.

It seems Sony had to rethink their strategy and cutting a cost like this makes perfect sense. Although I don't think they would not have put development money into PSN and such, each PS3 sold will cut less into the bottom line and make for a more profitable system sooner.

[fingers.t.beaver]

Reading around the forums there seems to be a lot of negative reaction to the fact this has been removed. This makes it cheaper to produce but less effective, Sony only saying they hope to cut cost and eventually pass it on, not droping the price now. This has not happened in the region that pays ?200 for they're PS3's but in the region that pays ?420. I know you are arguing how important BC is but at the end of the day it is a feature loss.

People also don't like the fact they are also being told this after the price has been released. Sony are claiming to have a million console ready in 5 weeks, if this is true they have had this version of the console ready for at least a month, why not announce the feature change with the price so people at least know what they're buying.

Lastly, yes it will be compatible with a limited amount of PS2 games in comparison to a broad spectrum of PS1 titles, not a good sign, but which work and which don't will not be announced till march 23rd, coincidentally the day of release. I understand they will be tring to get games working until that date, however not releasing the list now and updating it as more titles are added suggests that it is not a big list.

As to the arguement that BC is not important, I know a lot of people that were planning to use they're PS3 to play their old PS2 games until the game library gets better on the PS3. Speaking to one today, he told me he had cancelled his preorder and would now wait for a price drop and better game library.

The PS3 will not fail, however it needs to do something to sell consoles today rather than in a year or two when the price drops, and hobbling the BC will not do that, particularly when it did have fully working BC before hand. If they don't then they are going to be rellying on a rapidly aging console to support them while they try and find new ways of making their console cheaper. I don't see the normal pattern of as more people buy them mass production reduces cost working right now as most people I talk to are waiting for good games and the price to come down.

Anyway thats my thoughts I'm going to have a cup of tea now:blush:h: