[Cancelled] Sarah Connor Chronicles (Terminator Series)

[Doli]

Dumb Americans that hate to think, hate to watch shows that make ones think like we do!

Or different strokes for different folks.

[episode]

Both are science fiction shows, they're far more related than Terminator and Prison Break or Lost and 24. The type of show doesn't matter, the point is one show had much, much more going for it (fan base) than Terminator, and it still got the axe. Fortunately they allowed the creator to make a movie out of it to conclude it.

Uhm, Firefly's MAX rating was a 4.0. Ever. And that was the premiere. It mostly did in the high 2s. That is absolutely pitiful for something on network TV, even if its Fox. The general rule of thumb is to add 1.5 to a Fox rating to get an ABC/NBC/CBS equivalent, and a low 4 on those networks would result in the person who put the show on the air being fired.

Now, it had a vocal base of devotees, but it didn't draw in the mass market. SCC has at least somewhat pulled in the mass market.

You can love Firefly all you want, lots of people did. But to say it had 'more going for it' is just downright incorrect.

[Mathachew Veteran]

I wasn't referring to the numbers but to the quality of the show. In regards to ratings, FOX royally screwed Firefly, and with Terminator, they've given it far more exposure and tender loving care. The "premiere" of Firefly was the second episode, which was supposed to have aired following the true two hour premiere. I strongly doubt Terminator will see the same outpouring that Jericho had with it's revival and the mass buying of the Firefly series on DVD that lead to it getting a movie. Terminator was never aired out of order, preempted, or shoved to the deathly Friday timeslot.

IMHO, Terminator has been so-so at best. It's a great idea that worked well for the movies, but not for TV. None of what they have done would be suitable for a movie because it's below par anyhow, and of course, if it were a movie they could've stepped it up a notch, but I couldn't see that being done well with its current writers. While it is somewhat serialized, it has gone more the route of a show like Chuck (and Firefly) where each episode is "today's new adventure." That style doesn't work well with the Terminator universe, there just isn't that much to tell to justify a full dedicated TV series. There have been three movies, with three more coming, so assuming that all six end up being two hours each, that's 12 hours of a large story to tell that spans over many years with none of this day to day, "this is how we survived and lived" nonsense. Half of the movies are going to be about the war against the machines, while the series' whole premise is to prevent the war completely, so just how many versions SkyNet's will they destroy before the series would ultimately end? Yawn-tastic material there.

Alright, now that I've given my input, back to what I originally said. The stories and characters of Firefly were more entertaining and interesting; oh, and it had that one great element: it was unique. SCC lacks everything Firefly had, so in that regard, I say it had more going for it. Unfortunately for Firefly, the special effects quality, while great for a TV show, gave it a hefty price tag, another reason FOX ditched it so quickly.

[episode]

I wasn't referring to the numbers but to the quality of the show. In regards to ratings, FOX royally screwed Firefly, and with Terminator, they've given it far more exposure and tender loving care. The "premiere" of Firefly was the second episode, which was supposed to have aired following the true two hour premiere. I strongly doubt Terminator will see the same outpouring that Jericho had with it's revival and the mass buying of the Firefly series on DVD that lead to it getting a movie. Terminator was never aired out of order, preempted, or shoved to the deathly Friday timeslot.

IMHO, Terminator has been so-so at best. It's a great idea that worked well for the movies, but not for TV. None of what they have done would be suitable for a movie because it's below par anyhow, and of course, if it were a movie they could've stepped it up a notch, but I couldn't see that being done well with its current writers. While it is somewhat serialized, it has gone more the route of a show like Chuck (and Firefly) where each episode is "today's new adventure." That style doesn't work well with the Terminator universe, there just isn't that much to tell to justify a full dedicated TV series. There have been three movies, with three more coming, so assuming that all six end up being two hours each, that's 12 hours of a large story to tell that spans over many years with none of this day to day, "this is how we survived and lived" nonsense. Half of the movies are going to be about the war against the machines, while the series' whole premise is to prevent the war completely, so just how many versions SkyNet's will they destroy before the series would ultimately end? Yawn-tastic material there.

Alright, now that I've given my input, back to what I originally said. The stories and characters of Firefly were more entertaining and interesting; oh, and it had that one great element: it was unique. SCC lacks everything Firefly had, so in that regard, I say it had more going for it.

Terminator isn't going to get canceled. Its going to be renewed.

You may think that Firefly was more interesting, and other fans may feel the same way. I never watched it, so I can't say. But the general public obviously didn't view it that way. The public loves things they already know. Thats why SCC, despite all the things you mentioned, still pulls 7+ million viewers. Thats why there are 14 different versions of CSI and L&O, and thats why you see things like the Family Guy and Prison Break spinoffs.

I by no means think SCC is anything great. Its just an average show. But its definitely more popular than Firefly ever was. Serenity didn't even make back its production budget in theaters - even including worldwide, which is undoubtedly a failure.

Jericho was never any good either, but it had a much larger audience than Firefly, at least. Bringing it back was a huge mistake by CBS, thats what they get for listening to online petitions.

SCC will get a second 13 or so episode season, and then be ended at the end of that run.

[bolerodan]

.............

You can love Firefly all you want, lots of people did. But to say it had 'more going for it' is just downright incorrect.

Thats from someone who admitted that they have never seen the show. You'd be surprised. FireFly had a HUGE fan base, had A LOT going for it, DVD sales are very high, and speaking of serenity the movie, they are rumors going around between the actors and creator Josh of another movie. Its very true, fox "did" screw over Fire Fly from the get go, but there is nothing we can do about it. I find Terminator and fire fly different shows to compare, so its useless arguing.

[episode]

Thats from someone who admitted that they have never seen the show. You'd be surprised. FireFly had a HUGE fan base, had A LOT going for it, DVD sales are very high, and speaking of serenity the movie, they are rumors going around between the actors and creator Josh of another movie. Its very true, fox "did" screw over Fire Fly from the get go, but there is nothing we can do about it. I find Terminator and fire fly different shows to compare, so its useless arguing.

I'm not comparing the shows at all. Just the facts. Firefly had NO audience. 4.0 max on Fox is downright terrible, no matter how badly they 'screwed' it. A completely awful show like K-Ville did much better than that 4.0 on every show, and it was canceled right away.

I'll take your word for it that the DVD sales were very high, even though it doesn't make sense.

You have three separate things with Firefly. The TV show, the DVDs, and the movie. The TV show did terrible, as I have been saying. The movie also did terrible. Not making even $30 million is a downright disgrace in this day and age. Thats Gigli type of money. Now, you are saying despite those two that the DVD sales were good. Thats fine, maybe every person who ever watched the show bought a DVD set. It still doesn't make up for the other two, and 'every person who watched the show' isn't that high.

But again, there is a difference between a 'dedicated fan' and mass appeal. Firefly had dedicated fans. SCC has mass appeal. SCC therefore has more going for it.

[SuperJediMedia]

[bolerodan]

I'm not comparing the shows at all. Just the facts. Firefly had NO audience. 4.0 max on Fox is downright terrible, no matter how badly they 'screwed' it. A completely awful show like K-Ville did much better than that 4.0 on every show, and it was canceled right away.

I'll take your word for it that the DVD sales were very high, even though it doesn't make sense.

You have three separate things with Firefly. The TV show, the DVDs, and the movie. The TV show did terrible, as I have been saying. The movie also did terrible. Not making even $30 million is a downright disgrace in this day and age. Thats Gigli type of money. Now, you are saying despite those two that the DVD sales were good. Thats fine, maybe every person who ever watched the show bought a DVD set. It still doesn't make up for the other two, and 'every person who watched the show' isn't that high.

But again, there is a difference between a 'dedicated fan' and mass appeal. Firefly had dedicated fans. SCC has mass appeal. SCC therefore has more going for it.

A completely awful show? you're basing that on what exactly? You havn't even watched it as you admitted yourself? What makes you think that Terrible ratings = Terrible Show. I explained already WHY it had terrible ratings.. and ill explain it again.

You're right, the show *did* have a low rating. But that doesn't mean the show was terrible, because it did terrible on the ratings. Like its been mentioned many times before, just as Creator Josh whedon explains many times. Fox did things to the show that caused its down fall. Fox aired shows out of order. It caused people to be confused, having to take in too much information at once, as well as trying to figure things out on their own. People don't like to do that. The pilot episode which explains everything for the viewers was aired 2nd to last. COME ON! Thats rediculous. The show had no advertising, and what people saw on air, had no idea what the Eff was going on.

But when people buy DVD's, Word gets spread around, you'd be surprised. People advise other people to check things out, and thats why it has done *very* well on DVD (both the series and the movie serenity).. basically by word of mouth, because that gave people to actually SEE IT IN ORDER and understand what was going on.

Saying a show *is* terrible, because it did terrible on ratings is not very fair at all. Thanks to DVD sales, things are going well for the movie/series.

I discovered the show by word of mouth. I watched the pilot, and was instantly hooked, i went out and bought the DVD box set/ series and movie, just as a small example.

[episode]

A completely awful show? you're basing that on what exactly? You havn't even watched it as you admitted yourself? What makes you think that Terrible ratings = Terrible Show. I explained already WHY it had terrible ratings.. and ill explain it again.

You're right, the show *did* have a low rating. But that doesn't mean the show was terrible, because it did terrible on the ratings. Like its been mentioned many times before, just as Creator Josh whedon explains many times. Fox did things to the show that caused its down fall. Fox aired shows out of order. It caused people to be confused, having to take in too much information at once, as well as trying to figure things out on their own. People don't like to do that. The pilot episode which explains everything for the viewers was aired 2nd to last. COME ON! Thats rediculous. The show had no advertising, and what people saw on air, had no idea what the Eff was going on.

But when people buy DVD's, Word gets spread around, you'd be surprised. People advise other people to check things out, and thats why it has done *very* well on DVD (both the series and the movie serenity).. basically by word of mouth, because that gave people to actually SEE IT IN ORDER and understand what was going on.

Saying a show *is* terrible, because it did terrible on ratings is not very fair at all. Thanks to DVD sales, things are going well for the movie/series.

I discovered the show by word of mouth. I watched the pilot, and was instantly hooked, i went out and bought the DVD box set/ series and movie, just as a small example.

The 'completely awful show' that I referred to was K-Ville. Which was an absolutely atrocious show that should never have aired. But still had a bigger audience that Firefly.

Saying that something DID terrible is not the same as saying it WAS terrible.

It might have been the greatest show of all time.

But in ratings, and in box office, it did terrible. You cannot dispute that.

Nothing else matters but those things, in this argument, because it was based on 'what it had going for it'. SCC has more going for it in those regards.

You can say Fox screwed it on purpose or whatever. Thats fine. Maybe they did. But that means thats just another thing SCC has going for it. That Fox isn't out to kill it.

You also cannot deny that no matter what order the episodes were in or anything like it, the first episode didn't even do well.

http://home.insightbb.com/~wahoskem/firefly1.html

If the audience had started high and dropped, you can say they were confusing everyone. But it started low and just went lower. Did some people of that audience get confused? Maybe, but it never was a draw to begin with.

[Am_I_Evil]

stuff

if you're gonna defend Firefly could you at least spell Joss right? his name is not Josh....

[Mathachew Veteran]

The 'completely awful show' that I referred to was K-Ville. Which was an absolutely atrocious show that should never have aired. But still had a bigger audience that Firefly.

Saying that something DID terrible is not the same as saying it WAS terrible.

It might have been the greatest show of all time.

But in ratings, and in box office, it did terrible. You cannot dispute that.

Nothing else matters but those things, in this argument, because it was based on 'what it had going for it'. SCC has more going for it in those regards.

You can say Fox screwed it on purpose or whatever. Thats fine. Maybe they did. But that means thats just another thing SCC has going for it. That Fox isn't out to kill it.

You also cannot deny that no matter what order the episodes were in or anything like it, the first episode didn't even do well.

http://home.insightbb.com/~wahoskem/firefly1.html

If the audience had started high and dropped, you can say they were confusing everyone. But it started low and just went lower. Did some people of that audience get confused? Maybe, but it never was a draw to begin with.

I don't know about the marketing history of Firefly, but I imagine with such a low rating that it likely got minimal ad times hyping its premier, whereas the horrific Eli Stone pulled incredible numbers on the night of Lost's premiere, only because of the non-stop barrage of advertising done, and the tie-in to Lost viral marketing. The same can be applied to SCC, it was one of the only new TV shows to watch because of the strike and even had SuperBowl commercials in its favor. I had never heard of Firefly until a year after the movie was released on DVD, and I imagine that is was the same for a large number of fans that it has today. The whole point of this is that Firefly was never given a chance from the get go, with likely pathetic marketing and non-existant support from FOX to even get the word out about it, but this is all ancient history now and has been discussed to death, over and over.... and over.

SCC will likely live for at least another season, but I would wager that DVD sales for both shows would show Firefly having a significantly higher sale margin. However, this is a mute point because it's not on TV, while SCC, unfortunately, is.

Edited March 3, 2008 by Mathachew

[bolerodan]

if you're gonna defend Firefly could you at least spell Joss right? his name is not Josh....

ahahah you're right, i noticed that about 30min after i posted :laugh:

Respond to Episode: I don't feel like responding to much of what you wrote. But what you had it sound like from the begining of your argument is that firefly *is* a terrible show, not terrible based on ratings. Wee *both* agree that it did terrible on ratings, but thats not what im arguing about. I did agree with you there. Finally, to argue about the pilot episode. Of course its going to have horrible ratings after the fact that the viewer base is gone to even get a chance to see the pilot. it wasn't given a fair chance. It did horrible on ratings from the get go, but if things were planned out better for it, i believe it could of made it.

@Mathachew above:

I also never heard of firefly until a year or so AFTER the movie. Another example. The general fan base that fire fly has now probably never watched it when it aired. It was simply never given great advertising or chances that many shows have been given. Its a shame really.

Edited March 3, 2008 by bolerodan

[Piggy]

CTV here aired the season finale yesterday. I only noticed it was on half way through, so I'll watch it today. :shifty:

[SuperJediMedia]

Less than 8 Hours!!! :woot:

[qdave]

Totally!!!

i am glad there is one soul which agrees with me :D

[*RedBull*]

Honestly, I'm glad SCC is just an alternate reality of Terminator. I hope the next Terminator movie doesn't invovle the SCC in it at all. Yes I stil watch SCC, even though I haven't thought of it highly.

[Mathachew Veteran]

Honestly, I'm glad SCC is just an alternate reality of Terminator. I hope the next Terminator movie doesn't invovle the SCC in it at all. Yes I stil watch SCC, even though I haven't thought of it highly.

Well SCC is all about stopping SkyNet. The next Terminator movies are about the war. They can't coincide.

[SuperJediMedia]

Edited March 3, 2008 by JediXAngel

[SuperJediMedia]

We hear the ending to this season finale is going to be REALLY big, so be sure to watch.

[Mathachew Veteran]

...no source?

[SuperJediMedia]

terminatorsite.com

[Rappy Veteran]

I would think a finale would be big? or am I missing something?...the staff over at TV Guide said on their podcast that they wouldn't be shocked if they didn't renew the series.

[episode]

Well they certainly saved the best for last ... those were the best two episodes of the series. The final one was the best BY FAR.

[Mathachew Veteran]

So... that was the really big ending? A robot being blown up?

[episode]

So... that was the really big ending? A robot being blown up?

I have a feeling that was a last second, pre-strike scene.