TorrentSpy Ordered By Judge to Become MPAA Spy

[Chad]

We are not flaming him, we are only pointing out the obvious that he is not as innocent as he tries to sound. No one is, and they really need to stop with this perfect "I'm Better than You, I do no wrong" Attitude. At least someone has or will have pirated at least once in their lives that uses a computer, and all of you can deny it all you want. It takes a man to admit something, and we are not as stupid or easily fooled and belittled as you'd like to think.

This or any of my post's were not meant to flame, only for mere information and factual claims. All we were doing is explaining something, and I doubt you are even so innocent yourself Neowin Moderator. No one is perfect, so all we are saying is stop acting like you are, admit it, move on and enjoy your life.

I go through enough of this "I'm so perfect and better than you, never doing any wrong" Attitude in real life enough, and it is as annoying if not more visiting a forum and putting up with the same bull.

Yes I may be Banned or Restricted from posting, but I am only stating my point of view and opinion I was given in conjunction with free speech and freedom of expression as an American Citizen and am merely expressing myself. If I'm going to be penalized or threatened with a posting restriction for merely expressing myself as a given right, I guess by all means do what is necessary in your eyes and restrict me ;)

Some people just choose not to illegally download content. He, nor anyone else in the thread exhibited the 'I am better than you because I don't do that' aire, so stop accusing. It's simply a disagreement. I think it is illegal and wrong to be downloading content, while somehow other people justify breaking the law. This may come as a shock to you, but there are millions out there that haven't even thought about downloading something illegally.

When I was younger and didn't understand the legailties of it, I downloaded one or two things but never really got into it. I quickly found out that it really was against the law. So yeah I can say that I've never gone to torrentspy, or any other warez site for that matter.

Stop thinking everyone else does it simply because you do. And yes, people were flaming him so the posts were removed.

Finally...as Neowin is a private website, you have zero rights here. Simiarly, the companies that you buy software, movies, and music from determine your usage rights. They tell you what you can and cannot do with their product. If they say you can't back up the product, you can't. By all means, keep trying to justify it if you need to.

[revvo]

^ And those millions download music and have burned music cd's all around their house and car dashboards. I can't remember the last time I saw a legit music cd and there's no way that all these people have burned music cds for backup purposes, my ass that's what I think.

[Xtreme2damax]

I wasn't justifying anything and neither do I think piracy is right. What I don't get is that most seem to forget about Fair Use Laws. Granted it is wrong to pirate copyrighted material, however these companies want to make it a living hell for a legit consumer to back up their media with ridiculous copy protections that do nothing in reality to stop piracy, and will eventually be cracked.

I mean I'd like to extend the life of My CD's DVD's, make a backup and not have to worry about inserting the CD/DVD everytime I want to play a game. I mean after all, I paid for it in full and gained their company revenue, why shouldn't I be able to and why should I have to deal with painstaking, potentially damaging copy protection schemes (StarForce?) and risk system failure just to back up my game to prolong the life of my CD's. Companies make this impossible with these ridiculous copy protections which do absolutely nothing to stop, delay or prevent piracy.

I don't want to Keep spending mega money I don't have to keep re-purchasing these things when they get damaged, and thus is why a backup is necessary for me or most people.

At least I know in the US, that you are entitled to make one Backup of any software you own under the Fair Use Laws granted the original is still in your possession and the backup is not distributed online. Emulation is also not illegal in the United States, granted that you dump your own Bios, and use your original game or a Backup of your original game. While Emulation is not illegal, the downloading of copyright material is which is why you have to make a backup yourself. However I see people screaming piracy when someone mentions emulation even though it's not illegal in itself. Daemon-Tools is also not illegal, and I've seen a fair amount of threads closed on it claiming it is illegal when it was indeed not and only intended for backup purposes to prolong the life of the actual media.

Same goes for torrents, everyone is always screaming the typical piracy excuse claiming pirates are the only ones affected, when in actuality it is not just the pirates and is everyone.

Also, I see this in threads where people are screaming piracy just because a game was released in another country before theirs, they automatically think and scream "OMG, It's Piracy!" right away.

Torrents can be used for both illegal and Legal activities, and I'm sure there is an abundance of Legal, Unlicensed, and Non-Copyrighted Torrents on TorrentSpy as well.

Even the Downloading of Copyrighted material isn't illegal in some countries. Just because it is in the US, doesn't mean the same laws apply to everyone else because the USA says so.

The MPAA or RIAA won't just stop with TorrentSpy, oh no they won't. They will go after every one they can until P2P is stamped out completely. I just want to get something straight. I don't think or agree that piracy is OK. I am against this for one reason, and why I think the MPAA and RIAA are wrong:

Only the torrents are stored on the actual server in a database and not the actual data. A torrent once downloaded can contain anything: A Virus or something completely different than what was described or in the name if the torrent. No one has any way of knowing until it is downloaded, and I seriously doubt the MPAA and RIAA are sitting in front of a computer or computers all day long downloading every single torrent, extracting it if necessary and playing it to actually see if it's a Hollywood movies as they claim. If all they had to go on were torrents and the names of torrents and not actual data, they shouldn't of had a leg to stand on in court and should of lost. Furthermore they should of lost anyways regardless if the torrents were actual movies, because of the fact that no actual data is stored on their servers and is only transmitted via peers or seeds using the protocol.

Need I also mention the hell this will cause not only just for the pirates , but for everyone? Have you not heard the MPAA, RIAA Horror stories of the Prosecutions of the long deceased, those who never used a PC let alone a file sharing program, or people not engaged in file sharing ever?

This affects everyone, not just the pirates. If the MPAA/RIAA can get a hold of this data and Torrent Spy complies there is no end to who they can sue that they think is engaged in file sharing and possibly win regardless if the defendant is guilty or innocent.

In actuality I honestly hope TorrentSpy doesn't comply and moves base off shores on a server in a different country. That does not mean I think Piracy is right, so you can keep from posting your comments on it. It only means I am hoping that TS does the right thing and not fall Prey or Victim to Monopolistic Greedy Bullies like the MPAA/RIAA. And the right thing to begin with would of been TorrentSpy winning the court case to begin with instead of running loops with the MPAA/RIAA.

If you are having trouble with understanding why TorrentSpy should of won the Court Case, I give a detailed explanation above as to why they should of, so pleae read it please before posting one of your anti-piracy rants. I'm asking you nicely to :)

Edited June 10, 2007 by Xtreme2damax

[caesar]

It's not about people downloading stuff over torrents it's about the fact that some corporate firms have on pay role the MPAA to do the dirty stuff for them. Privacy is a damn right and MPAA wants to take it off us. What's next? Each Internet user should download a monitoring program off MPAA's website to let them know when you browse over the Internet? A web cam pointed at our monitor and keyboard? Pfff... so f****g lame.

[Xtreme2damax]

Did anyone notice yet that the Neowin Member Bonzi Buddy got Banned?

I wonder what for Hmmm? :unsure:

Just saying that's all, no intention of flaming ;)

[obsolete_power]

HA! They cannot come after people in Canada! Not cool MPAA! You continue to anger the world. We all know what happens when you tick people off....

[SoCalledChaos]

thats why i love canada... we're free to do as we please:D

[canucksrule]

ive never used torrent spy so im not sure how much of there content is legit or illegal, and i was talking to bonzai buddy, and his "im better then you, your gonna burn in hell" attitude.

hey look who's the hypocrite! you dont like his "your gonna burn in hell" attitude yet you have the same attitude in your sig. Seriously, your sig is 10 times worse than this MPAA crap, which is already awful.

[+vlsi0n Subscriber¹]

All that this would result in is people not using TorrentSpy and switching to a different site. Rinse and repeat.. it's been like this for the past few years.. (cry suprnova)

hey look who's the hypocrite! you dont like his "your gonna burn in hell" attitude yet you have the same attitude in your sig. Seriously, your sig is 10 times worse than this MPAA crap, which is already awful.

+1 (ad-blocked his sig, if it offends you just do the same or ignore it i guess..)

[The-Wyyl]

I may be wrong, but isn't the MPAA trying to get the information so they can track what people download? Yes, they know the full-sized file isn't stored on the severs, but the .torrent file DOES lead to file. By tracking even what .torrent files are downloaded, shouldn't the MPAA be able to track who's (possibly) downloading what movie/show/whatever?

I guess it's a bit of a fear tactic. 'Download something from TorrentSpy and we'll see you!'

If such a ruling does pass, I wouldn't be surprised if more sites are ordered to reveal the identity of its users/downloaders.

[ThePitt]

Finally...as Neowin is a private website, you have zero rights here.

damn. I feel so naked. :p

btw, if you have a product that you cant backup, is very restrictive, and the releasing company controls you all your movements (a dictatorship like "company") that product is condemnded... ;)

[Xtreme2damax]

I may be wrong, but isn't the MPAA trying to get the information so they can track what people download? Yes, they know the full-sized file isn't stored on the severs, but the .torrent file DOES lead to file. By tracking even what .torrent files are downloaded, shouldn't the MPAA be able to track who's (possibly) downloading what movie/show/whatever?

I guess it's a bit of a fear tactic. 'Download something from TorrentSpy and we'll see you!'

If such a ruling does pass, I wouldn't be surprised if more sites are ordered to reveal the identity of its users/downloaders.

Thing is, the MPAA shouldn't have ground to stand on. All a torrent is, is a metafile or basically a text file. The actual data comes from the seeds/peers and does not reside on the TorrentSpy Server. That alone should of been enough so the MPAA didn't have a leg or ground to stand on.

Also a torrent file can contain any kind of data once downloaded. Just because the torrent says ZOMG! Spider Man 3, doesn't mean it is. It could in fact be distributed malware, or something completely different or maybe a fan made impression or impersonation of the movie or a fan made comic.

Thing is that makes this more wrong, is they have no way of differentiating between so called Illegal and Legal files or Bogus files so in the end your privacy or identity will be compromised so the MPAA can get what they want but in reality there is nothing they can do to stop piracy.

Also as mentioned, no one has any way of knowing what the file is until it is downloaded, extracted if it's compressed with an archiver and played to analyze it's contents. So even the Legal or Bogus files that even slightly hint at a reference of a Hollywood movie will be tagged. I doubt people at the MPAA/RIAA are sitting in front of there PC's 24 hours a day all week long Downloading every single file available via P2P or the Web, extracting it if compressed, playing it and analyzing it contents to determine if the file is in fact an illegally distributed movie or music.

This is not only bad for pirates, but for everyone as well as the MPAA/RIAA have filed some pretty bogus and frivolous lawsuits in the past against the long deceased, children who don't use computers or know what a P2P App is, People who have never used a computer or even engaged in any type of P2P Activity and the list goes on.

Edited June 11, 2007 by Xtreme2damax

[obsolete_power]

Some people just choose not to illegally download content. He, nor anyone else in the thread exhibited the 'I am better than you because I don't do that' aire, so stop accusing. It's simply a disagreement. I think it is illegal and wrong to be downloading content, while somehow other people justify breaking the law. This may come as a shock to you, but there are millions out there that haven't even thought about downloading something illegally.

When I was younger and didn't understand the legailties of it, I downloaded one or two things but never really got into it. I quickly found out that it really was against the law. So yeah I can say that I've never gone to torrentspy, or any other warez site for that matter.

Stop thinking everyone else does it simply because you do. And yes, people were flaming him so the posts were removed.

Finally...as Neowin is a private website, you have zero rights here. Simiarly, the companies that you buy software, movies, and music from determine your usage rights. They tell you what you can and cannot do with their product. If they say you can't back up the product, you can't. By all means, keep trying to justify it if you need to.

Okay, honestly, why does everyone care so much about illegal downloading these day?? We should just move on and accept it as a part of life now. It will never stop so they better quit wasting my tax money away on an issue that won't go away! I hate paying taxes as it is, try not to make it harder for me to swallow it. G**damn....people should get out more.

People should note that most pirates only do it in order to stick it to the RIAA or MPAA so for that reason it isn't a bad thing. For any other reason, it is. If the RIAA were to back off, piracy would drop almost certainly. It only affects the honest people anyway, do you actually think that pirates are even slowed down by DRM or any other means like that? People that pay money for the content are the ones kicked in the face....

[26dblZero]

Anyone who uses BT please load up a file in your favorite client and look at the peers who are uploading to you and downloading from you. See all those IP addresses? How do you think people get caught on bittorrent? This discussion on TorrentSpy is totally ludicrous. If a US federal judge can execute this order on a off-shore entity and it is enforced then the implications are staggering. It won't matter what torrent index site you use, maybe except of course TPB. Oh on a private torrent index site. Who cares. Hand over the logs of those uploading .torrent files public or private. The stepping stone towards going after the trackers next for the logs.

[obsolete_power]

I think we should just forget about piracy and let it unfold itself. If pirates see that no one is forcing their hand anymore, most of them will stop or drastically reduce what they are doing. The law is like fuel for these people....Piracy is perhaps the best way to have power over the wealthy and authority. It is like a voice for people. Through piracy, they run the show and cost the countries billions of dollars. Many people enjoy this. From my point of view it is like watching morons fight idiots, morons being the people that oppose piracy (like the RIAA) and idiots being the pirates themselves. There are more important things in life besides going after people that are porbably 10 times smarter than you are. Just stop trying to fight a battle you can't win!

[lhnz]

To be honest... I don't agree with piracy by principle, but it is beneficial to the world in general, I think.

[jetblack]

Thing is, the MPAA shouldn't have ground to stand on. All a torrent is, is a metafile or basically a text file. The actual data comes from the seeds/peers and does not reside on the TorrentSpy Server. That alone should of been enough so the MPAA didn't have a leg or ground to stand on.

Thats just it, in this case the mpaa isnt going after torrentspy, it went after the information that TS can and has the power to log, ie ip addresses and the names of movies being d/l. it seems to be a different tactic than going after the actual tracker as in the piratebay case.

If I say lieing is wrong, it doensnt mean that i have never lied or will never lie. It still is wrong and it doenst make me a hypocrite.

Its is just as hypocritical to say that companies are greedy and evil and to be illegally d/l movies/games/software.

[Gotenks98]

Can anyone honestly say that they have never recorded something on tv with their vcr or dubbed an audio cassette? Technically it is the same thing as using pirated stuff. I just think they need to just leave torrentspy alone. **AA does not realize that they actually get some sales due to piracy. I know for some software, I download it just to see if it worthwhile to buy later. Samething goes with movies, and games. Some artists actually get their start by having their stuff on various P2P programs. The truth is that most people do not want to take a chance on buying crap. Being able to sample music, movies and games that way can help some sales.

[BlackSteyrAug]

If your like me, you download music just to hear a sneak peak at the music, if it's good or not.

Then, if it's good, I go buy the CD. Nothing wrong about that is there? It may not be legal, but atleast I can prove that I have bought the music.

[Hoffnungstod]

so has anyone heard what the out come was for this? did they win or lose? torrent spy still not safe? WHATS THE NEWS?

[Vista]

Well, the judge decided that TorrentSpy HAS TO work together with the MPAA. TorrentSpy says they'll never do anything like that, but they don't stand above the law. They'll have to do it.

For now, TorrentSpy isn't a safe place.

[7Dash8]

If your like me, you download music just to hear a sneak peak at the music, if it's good or not.

That's pretty much the main reason why people download torrents. To have a sneak peek at a movie, game or song. As far as I know, most people who download something from a torrent rush out and buy the legit version if they like it :rolleyes:

Also, I have some magic beans I would love to sell you, please PM me for more details.

[lhnz]

That's pretty much the main reason why people download torrents. To have a sneak peek at a movie, game or song. As far as I know, most people who download something from a torrent rush out and buy the legit version if they like it :rolleyes:

Also, I have some magic beans I would love to sell you, please PM me for more details.

If you download 30GB of music on OiNK you are not getting a sneak peak at your music. :rolleyes:

[theyarecomingforyou]

If your like me, you download music just to hear a sneak peak at the music, if it's good or not.

Indeed. I own many albums that I would not have bought if I hadn't downloaded it first.

[MrCobra]

Actually Torrents are NOT illegial. It's what you download throught it that is. These websites like TorrentSpy, have nothing "illegial" on their servers. Just a "bookmark" file directing you to the actual files. Therefore Torrentspy should not be to blame, but the user who created the torrent. For example, some one could create a torrent for OpenOffice.org, a FREE office suite which can be shared. That person is in the right, and if someone creates a torrent for example like a full version of Photoshop, then that person should be punished, not TorrentSpy.

Not siding with **AA but...

Here in the U.S. if you see a torrent that has the name of Gone.In.60.Seconds.torrent and you think because of the name that it is in fact the movie and you download it, you can be busted for it even though it wasn't the movie. A friend of mine was busted over the very same thing. The judge ruled that he thought he was getting the legit movie so that makes him guilty.

Indeed. I own many albums that I would not have bought if I hadn't downloaded it first.

I own many as well. I "sample" 3 or 4 songs and if I like it enough to think the rest of the album is just as good, I buy the CD and remove the downloads. If I don't like it, I don't buy the CD, and I remove the downloads. My 1st copy of Photoshop was obtained that way as well. At the time I had just started doing paid photography work I evaluated several apps before hand. I ended up purchasing PS and have purchased every single version after that.