Does Safari's cleartype text give you a headache?

[giga Veteran]

The browser window.

If I had ANY window open and any one of the borders was so dark it blended in to the desktop...

Am I the only one that saw the blackish border on the left of the browser window?

I'd think AMATUER.

Nice solid borders on the top, right and bottom of the window... but on the left?

Next....

The only borders around the window are on the top and bottom but the entire window has a self shadow. Still confused what you're on about...:s

[tao muon]

The only borders around the window are on the top and bottom but the entire window has a self shadow. Still confused what you're on about... :s

Umm...

So you're not seeing the 20-ish pixel wide vertical band of blankness on the left of the window?

I see it plain as day. It's where the background stripes kind of... um... STOP... on the left side of the window, giving way to a bluish-blackish vertical band.... even though there's a band of gray / grey (pick your spelling) at the top and bottom of the application window.

Please, pay attention.

And by definition, a shadow is cast by ones' self. Therefore, self-shadow is redundant.

[mattrobs]

Umm...

So you're not seeing the 20-ish pixel wide vertical band of blankness on the left of the window?

That's the Neowin page with the midnight theme applied. Safari's window is borderless.

[nub]

Something between Microsoft's ClearType and Apple's light anti-aliasing would be great.

[giga Veteran]

Umm...

So you're not seeing the 20-ish pixel wide vertical band of blankness on the left of the window?

I see it plain as day. It's where the background stripes kind of... um... STOP... on the left side of the window, giving way to a bluish-blackish vertical band.... even though there's a band of gray / grey (pick your spelling) at the top and bottom of the application window.

Please, pay attention.

And by definition, a shadow is cast by ones' self. Therefore, self-shadow is redundant.

Erm. I thought you were talking about the Safari window but now it's back to Neowin. The two vertical stripes going down are part of the forum theme. The gray on the top and bottom are part of Safari.

[tao muon]

That's the Neowin page with the midnight theme applied. Safari's window is borderless.

So the blank space on the left of the window, which looks wide enough for scroll bars to be placed, is caused by... Neowin?

That's funny... I don't see that space in IE7.

If I go to the footer of the page, find the gray bar at the bottom and go all the way to the left of it...

in IE7, I do not have a blackish bar running all the way up the screen... and matches up with the furthermost left part of the header....

[gigapixels Veteran]

That's the Neowin page with the midnight theme applied. Safari's window is borderless.

:rofl: Yep, that's what it is.

So the blank space on the left of the window, which looks wide enough for scroll bars to be placed, is caused by... Neowin?

That's funny... I don't see that space in IE7.

I see it in all three browsers (Safari, FF2, IE7). It's not as wide as it is in Safari, but that's most likely due to CSS rendering differences between the three engines used. It's not part of Safari's UI.

[tao muon]

Umm... I don't see any break in the midnight theme there, causing a black vertical bar under the header.

[giga Veteran]

Camino (Gecko) and Safari (WebKit) side by side.

Don't see much difference on my end. :s

[gigapixels Veteran]

WTF are you talking about? There's no black vertical bar in Giga's screenshot either. There's the dark blue-ish vertical bar that is there any time that you browse Neowin, though it will change colors depending upon the theme you choose.

[APH-Alex]

You had the exact same dark blue bar in your screen buddy.

[tao muon]

Well, I stand corrected....

It's supposed to look like that.

Personally, I prefer a window that looks like a window:

My apologies.

Notice the borders all around... in IE7 on Vista.

You had the exact same dark blue bar in your screen buddy.

Yeah, okay. I guess I have to agree with you there... my first shot was a full-screen window... so no desktop was showing. But I think the latest one with the desktop showing will exemplify exactly what I was complaining about.

IE7 DOES have borders to its windows.

[giga Veteran]

Well, I stand corrected....

It's supposed to look like that.

Personally, I prefer a window that looks like a window:

My apologies.

It's alright--;). Preferences are preferences--whether you like borderless windows or different types of font smoothing.

From here: http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000885.html

Apple generally believes that the goal of the algorithm should be to preserve the design of the typeface as much as possible, even at the cost of a little bit of blurriness.

Microsoft generally believes that the shape of each letter should be hammered into pixel boundaries to prevent blur and improve readability, even at the cost of not being true to the typeface.

Some like ClearType, some don't. If you're on Windows and don't like Apple's font smoothing, the best option right now is just to set it to light.

[APH-Alex]

@TaoMuon: Sorry, but some people prefer it without those chunky (IMO) borders. Style is a subjective thing, just thought you wanted to know. ;)

[tao muon]

It's alright-- ;) . Preferences are preferences--whether you like borderless windows or different types of font smoothing.

From here: http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000885.html

Some like ClearType, some don't. If you're on Windows and don't like Apple's font smoothing, the best option right now is just to set it to light.

If I can see the top, right and bottom edges of a window, why can't I see the left edge?

[gigapixels Veteran]

If I can see the top, right and bottom edges of a window, why can't I see the left edge?

The only "right edge" is the scrollbar, and that's technically not a border. View a website where you have no vertical scrollbar and you won't see any difference between the left and right sides.

[giga Veteran]

If I can see the top, right and bottom edges of a window, why can't I see the left edge?

Edges?

[Bawx]

I hate Macs text style. It's so thick and jagged, most times.

[tao muon]

The only "right edge" is the scrollbar, and that's technically not a border. View a website where you have no vertical scrollbar and you won't see any difference between the left and right sides.

Okay, there you go. A website with no vertical scrollbars... no horizontal either...

But IE7 shows borders all around.

[giga Veteran]

Okay, there you go. A website with no vertical scrollbars... no horizontal either...

But IE7 shows borders all around.

I believe he was talking about Safari, not IE7.

[tao muon]

I believe he was talking about Safari, not IE7.

Okay fine.

But why, when I've been talking about IE7 the whole time, would someone talking about Safari tell me I'm wrong?

[giga Veteran]

Okay fine.

But why, when I've been talking about IE7 the whole time, would someone talking about Safari tell me I'm wrong?

You pointed out my screenshot, which was of Safari--which started this entire conversation?

[QuarterSwede]

Okay, there you go. A website with no vertical scrollbars... no horizontal either...

But IE7 shows borders all around.

Sigh. Go to an Apple store and use a Mac. Different design philosophies between Microsoft and Apple that's all. I prefer Apple's borderless ways because I find borders pointless but that is simply my opinion.

[tao muon]

You pointed out my screenshot, which was of Safari--which started this entire conversation?

Yes, I suppose so.

My complaint is that the desktop had the gold 'stripes' that disappear on the left side of the Safari window and leave a vertical band 'blackish' between the top and bottom of the window. It looked like the left side of the window was just /gone/ and had nothing left. The content of the window was indented and... nothing filled the empty space.

That is exactly my point.

At least IE7 draws a border around its window so that you can see where the desktop ends and the window begins.

And that is where the conversation started.

So...

What next?

Sigh. Go to an Apple store and use a Mac. Different design philosophies between Microsoft and Apple that's all. I prefer Apple's borderless ways because I find borders pointless but that is simply my opinion.

Can I bother you of a screenshot of that site on a Mac?

http://taomuon.youdontcare.com

[APH-Alex]

What is the square root of pi?