Internet Explorer 8 Beta to begin later this year

[Matt T]

Please, PLEASE, PLEASE Microsoft - give IE8 proper standards support!! I'm getting so f***ing tired of creating web pages with twice as much code that they need because of bloody IE hacks.

[argonite]

When you guys talk of standards support, I assume you're not asking for FULL standards support. Because if you were asking for that in IE8 and you don't happen to write HTML and CSS yourself, your webpages are going to look just as bad as they do in IE6. What I assume you're talking about is MUCH improved standards support and a quirks mode to fall back to the IE7 rendering scheme.

[ServerMechanic]

Sweeet, yet another browser from Microsoft that I will not even install or run. :D

[revvo]

Nice to see that Microsoft is no longer waiting 5+ years between each major release of IE. I think that if IE8 continues to add better support for web standards, as well as some new and catch-up features, IE will become a very strong browser in its own right.

I somehow doubt this.

Microsoft only bust their ass off when there's competition. This is Netscape vs IE all over again, except this time there's no reason for Mozilla to step down.

As far as web standards go, CSS2 has been around since 1998. They had almost 10 years to start working on supporting the standard so why should I believe that IE8 will be anymore compliant? Safari and Opera are both already working their way on supporting CSS3 and IE still has issues with CSS2, a 9 year old standard.

There is however one good thing about IE supporting butchered CSS. The reason is, most ppl's code is butchered and works on IE just fine and most people just test on IE. Can you imagine what would happen if the next version fully supports CSS2? Yes on 1 side I'll be like **** yes, I don't need to test on IE and FF anymore! On the other side? Re-work the already-badly-written websites and that can take time from company to company. ASP.Net applications come to my mind because Visual Studio .Net provides tools to design stylesheets through a GUI and that alone already creates badly-written CSS.

[argonite]

I somehow doubt this.

Microsoft only bust their ass off when there's competition. This is Netscape vs IE all over again, except this time there's no reason for Mozilla to step down.

As far as web standards go, CSS2 has been around since 1998. They had almost 10 years to start working on supporting the standard so why should I believe that IE8 will be anymore compliant? Safari and Opera are both already working their way on supporting CSS3 and IE still has issues with CSS2, a 9 year old standard.

There is however one good thing about IE supporting butchered CSS. The reason is, most ppl's code is butchered and works on IE just fine and most people just test on IE. Can you imagine what would happen if the next version fully supports CSS2? Yes on 1 side I'll be like **** yes, I don't need to test on IE and FF anymore! On the other side? Re-work the already-badly-written websites and that can take time from company to company. ASP.Net applications come to my mind because Visual Studio .Net provides tools to design stylesheets through a GUI and that alone already creates badly-written CSS.

Well that doesn't mean IE can't become a good browser. Persay, Microsoft is known to be able to write a standards-compliant rendering engine just as well as Mozilla can (read: the one in Microsoft Expression Web). In fact, it kind of shocked people, and some asked "if you can write this awesome program why does your browser still suck ass."

So really, despite common belief, they're kinda holding back right now. The only reason I could think of is because they don't want to break compatibility with all their corporate customer's websites, and thus would cause people to not want to install IE. As Firefox gains more marketshare though, websites will begin the slow transition to better code, giving IE more leeway to support more standards.

It's really a tougher knot than "hey IE, you suck, follow the rules."

[DoubleThink]

4 pages of speculation.

Until Microsoft actually announces these beta's, there's no point arguing.

Microsoft will have to do something amazing with Internet Explorer 8 for Microsoft to save face, after Internet Explorer 7 - which, lets be realistic - is a pretty average product at best.

[revvo]

So really, despite common belief, they're kinda holding back right now. The only reason I could think of is because they don't want to break compatibility with all their corporate customer's websites, and thus would cause people to not want to install IE. As Firefox gains more marketshare though, websites will begin the slow transition to better code, giving IE more leeway to support more standards.

It's really a tougher knot than "hey IE, you suck, follow the rules."

Well, what they could do is somehow support "uncompliant" and compliant CSS to keep compatibility with the already-written websites that have the odd syntax of some styles (think of the order of border's values, overflow-x overflow-y, etc.), it's not impossible but yeah that's one big reason why they're probably taking time if they're honest about supporting standards.

[M118LR]

4 pages of speculation.

Until Microsoft actually announces these beta's, there's no point arguing.

Microsoft will have to do something amazing with Internet Explorer 8 for Microsoft to save face, after Internet Explorer 7 - which, lets be realistic - is a pretty average product at best.

"pretty average product at best" I would have to very much disagree with you. I have been using IE7 since Aug. 2005 and have never looked back.

As far as speculation, there is information on IE8 if one takes the time to look.

[primexx]

When you guys talk of standards support, I assume you're not asking for FULL standards support. Because if you were asking for that in IE8 and you don't happen to write HTML and CSS yourself, your webpages are going to look just as bad as they do in IE6. What I assume you're talking about is MUCH improved standards support and a quirks mode to fall back to the IE7 rendering scheme.

I'm pretty sure we mean FULL standards compliance like every other browser out there. (and no, by full I don't mean perfect, but rather very close to it)

[DoubleThink]

"pretty average product at best" I would have to very much disagree with you. I have been using IE7 since Aug. 2005 and have never looked back.

As far as speculation, there is information on IE8 if one takes the time to look.

Good for you. I'm glad you love Internet Explorer, but if you want effective addons like ad filtering (for free) and a customizable interface then Firefox is a better choice.

[M118LR]

"if you want effective addons like ad filtering (for free) and a customizable interface then Firefox is a better choice."

I new early on how IE7 would turn out as the UI was locked down by Beta3 and am quite pleased how well it turned out. So why would I look at Firefox?

[Kushan]

Lets not turn this thread into another browser fanboy war. We all have our preferences and only the most ignorant will dispute that progress and competition is anything but a good thing.

[JSClark]

Once it comes out, I'll be sure to check it out.

However, I'm sure XP will automatically download and install it for me, just like it did with IE7 :rolleyes:

[Evolution]

All I want is greater CSS compatibility, along with support with CSS3, and a Pause/Resume button for downloads :)

Why are they calling it IE8 instead of IE7.5? Will it really be that different?

[L3thal Veteran]

Tell you one thing though, the addon, IE7pro, is all you need for IE7 to do every day browsing.

[DanManIt]

I'm gonna have a look at IE7pro. Its also good that microsoft is going to update IE more.

[Tech_Dude_5000]

well if you don't need a menu bar then why have it. imo the menu bar is pointless in a browser because it doesn't really have that many options that it cant be better organized with a row of buttons. the way it's done in IE is best because it takes up less space.

thats also the reason i don't think the ribbon is appropriate, there aren't enough options to require it and it takes up loads of space. the way IE looks now is fine.

Yeah, the way I see it, by mid 2008, most programs out there will no longer feature a menu bar. Rather buttons that act as part of the menubar.

The ribbon doesnt have to be the same size as the one in office. It could be half the size as that. Dont think the ribbon can be cut down in size. Anything is possable.

All I want is greater CSS compatibility, along with support with CSS3, and a Pause/Resume button for downloads :)

Why are they calling it IE8 instead of IE7.5? Will it really be that different?

if its just a minor update, with the same UI, but a few new features, such as download manenger, spellchecker, etc then yeah, IE 7.5 but otherwise IE 8.0

I do hope we get full versons now. I hate the .5 in the verson number, makes it fell unfishished.

[argonite]

The ribbon doesnt have to be the same size as the one in office. It could be half the size as that. Dont think the ribbon can be cut down in size. Anything is possable.

but if the ribbon becomes really thin, then it's basically a toolbar

[Tech_Dude_5000]

but if the ribbon becomes really thin, then it's basically a toolbar

I'm not saying that thin. but what people are saying is once they see something they think thats the only way it is gonna be like, and if its added in any other program it will be that size. Not really true.

The only thing i see the ribbon could be used for could be for tabs, and live previews for the tabs and for the back/forward buttons. Otherwise, the rest of the buttons arnt that well suited for a ribbon.

[Slimy]

You guys really think Microsoft will focus on the UI in IE8? I'm a fan of customizability, and IE7 doesn't offer that, but the UI is one of the last things that I care about in the next version. I'd rather they speed it up even more, add a download manager and of course improve standards support. Whether I can have my refresh button on the right or below the address bar isn't much of a big deal to me.

[Herculean]

They do need to fix up the UI, seriously. I hate how the tabs share their toolbar with other buttons, means they get pretty cluttered pretty damn quickly.

Microsoft need to make IE a market leader again, despite trying to like IE7, I can't. I feels sluggish, some graphics look pixelated and half-baked. Plus I find it still has a tendency to be flooded by "pop-under" adverts.

Microsoft so badly need to make IE better, so that the web can move on.

[duntkno]

8? when the hell did 7 become official?

<still on 6.

[revvo]

It's incredible. More people care about the interface than the browser's actual performance and features. No wonder Vista's a success among some of us :p

[Tech_Dude_5000]

It's incredible. More people care about the interface than the browser's actual performance and features. No wonder Vista's a success among some of us :p

Well, the UI does play a role in the performance. if you have a UI thats crazy as hell. Then you'll have a bunch of menus and crap open that will slow down the program.

[The_Decryptor Veteran]

When you guys talk of standards support, I assume you're not asking for FULL standards support. Because if you were asking for that in IE8 and you don't happen to write HTML and CSS yourself, your webpages are going to look just as bad as they do in IE6. What I assume you're talking about is MUCH improved standards support and a quirks mode to fall back to the IE7 rendering scheme.

IE already has a quirks mode for IE6, certain CSS features only work in IE7 when the page is set to use a valid doctype.

So no, there is nothing stopping IE from getting full standards compliance, the sites that would have those problems already operate under quirks mode, and wouldn't run into any issues (the sites that were having issues are ones that operate under standards mode, because IE7 fixes some bugs with css selectors, but doesn't include major upgrades to CSS support, so now it's running into styles it doesn't understand)

But yeah, IE being as capable as Firefox or Safari or such would be nice.

And menu's don't slow programs down :rolleyes: